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Level 4 Security missions - ISK/Hour?

Author
Altair Taurus
#21 - 2015-09-14 00:21:05 UTC
I do not really see those "hundredths millions ISK per hour" earned by running L4 missions. For instance today I did Angel Extravaganza mission: bounties - 19 mil, loot & salvage - 9 mil, reward - 2 mil. Taken together I earned 30 mil ISK spending 50 minutes for fighting and additional 30 minutes for salvaging in Noctis. That is 80 minutes or 1.33 hour in total which means my income was about 22.5 mil ISK per hour...
Daniela Doran
Doomheim
#22 - 2015-09-14 01:12:12 UTC
Altair Taurus wrote:
I do not really see those "hundredths millions ISK per hour" earned by running L4 missions. For instance today I did Angel Extravaganza mission: bounties - 19 mil, loot & salvage - 9 mil, reward - 2 mil. Taken together I earned 30 mil ISK spending 50 minutes for fighting and additional 30 minutes for salvaging in Noctis. That is 80 minutes or 1.33 hour in total which means my income was about 22.5 mil ISK per hour...


You forgot to factor in the LP which (assuming SOE) should bring that up to around 40 mill.

Also don't go Angel Extrava, not worth the time.
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#23 - 2015-09-14 01:37:49 UTC
Altair Taurus wrote:
I do not really see those "hundredths millions ISK per hour" earned by running L4 missions. For instance today I did Angel Extravaganza mission: bounties - 19 mil, loot & salvage - 9 mil, reward - 2 mil. Taken together I earned 30 mil ISK spending 50 minutes for fighting and additional 30 minutes for salvaging in Noctis. That is 80 minutes or 1.33 hour in total which means my income was about 22.5 mil ISK per hour...


first mistake: accepting angels extra
second mistake: going back to loot/salvage (9mil in loot & salvage over 30 mins is 18m/hour, well below your overall rate)
third mistake: not counting LP worst case you should get 1k isk/lp, best case is around 2k isk/lp although that is getting hard to hit.

Given I don't know what your fit was like or what your skills are like hard to say more, but As SP goes up and familiarity with the missions increases it is possible to make more isk faster.

19mil bounty, 2mil reward, and 15.3mil from LP (~8,500 lp @ 1.8k isk/lp). Well it might be worth it to run if it took <10 mins at top blitz rates. 20-30 mins would probably be acceptable at non optimal rates. I'm pretty sure it takes me 20-30 mins with a max dps mach fit. I haven't run it in a while, and don't intend to run it for a while. If I do run it in the near future it is going to be in a rattlesnake with fof missiles and probably an mjd with bouncers (although might be better to brawl with a gecko or berserkers)

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter

Forum Toon
Doomheim
#24 - 2015-09-14 01:44:28 UTC
imho if you can't loot and salvage the same time you are doing the mission with the same ship it's not worth it.
in my experience most mission loot cash coming from salvage actually and some few drops which worth above 1mil alone.... so if you are multi tasking shooting stuff and looting same time it should be better then coming back with noctis :X
Anize Oramara
WarpTooZero
#25 - 2015-09-14 04:23:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Anize Oramara
Altair Taurus wrote:
I do not really see those "hundredths millions ISK per hour" earned by running L4 missions. For instance today I did Angel Extravaganza mission: bounties - 19 mil, loot & salvage - 9 mil, reward - 2 mil. Taken together I earned 30 mil ISK spending 50 minutes for fighting and additional 30 minutes for salvaging in Noctis. That is 80 minutes or 1.33 hour in total which means my income was about 22.5 mil ISK per hour...

Yea the 'good' missions should give you around 3-5mill per minute, travel time included, when you are blitzing properly. When I time myself I generally note down my starting isk, LP and time and then run missions non stop for 2h-3h. This way any costs like repairs for OH guns from burners get taken into account as well as full honest travel time. I generally average between 160m/h-170m/h but I am still rather lacking on the burner side of things. I feel this is the most accurate way of measuring this.

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3

Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#26 - 2015-09-14 06:09:25 UTC
the one thing I hate about measuring isk/hour is the 20m bounty wait timer. that said its nice just checking the wallet journal as it does tell everything including repairs. It doesn't count ammo or cap boosters though. I'm at the point I don't use cap boosters on most runs, but faction ammo and navy 400s do count for some cost. Luckily can get away with standard 800s on the team missions.

guess work I'd probably say 3mil/hour in ammo/cap boosters, but that is probably high. given with blitzing you don't shoot all that many rounds. and small ammo is cheap. 3m/hour is probably a better guess for a faction ammo ac mach, its about 420 volleys. or 3.5 reloads.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter

Anize Oramara
WarpTooZero
#27 - 2015-09-14 07:00:01 UTC
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
the one thing I hate about measuring isk/hour is the 20m bounty wait timer. that said its nice just checking the wallet journal as it does tell everything including repairs. It doesn't count ammo or cap boosters though. I'm at the point I don't use cap boosters on most runs, but faction ammo and navy 400s do count for some cost. Luckily can get away with standard 800s on the team missions.

guess work I'd probably say 3mil/hour in ammo/cap boosters, but that is probably high. given with blitzing you don't shoot all that many rounds. and small ammo is cheap. 3m/hour is probably a better guess for a faction ammo ac mach, its about 420 volleys. or 3.5 reloads.

Indeed. I recently sourced 50k of each of the ammos I generally use (had some LP lying around) and I figure that's part of the initial capital layout. Initially when I was grinding up the standings and had to complete missions like vengeance at +-2 reloads or Blockade or angel extrav I was going through faction ammo at a horrendous rate. I'd recommend for the standings grinding part using standard and T2 ammo only. Once you start blitzing though you tend to use a LOT less ammo. I'd even say that you're estimate is a bit generous but I have no numbers to back it up P However the missions that do use the most ammo tend to use T2 ammo that is almost as cheap as T1 (pirate invasion and Gone Berserk come to mind, hail and barrage respectively).

I'd definitely say that it's worth shelling out for faction ammo once you get your faction standing high enough to start blitzing proper. Myself I've completely done away with the cap booster. Some missions in my mission pool (might be different for different agents) can get a bit exciting but I've never been in any danger. Wouldn't recommend a new player try running the missions without one though. All it takes is one scramming frig or one elite neut cruiser Pirate

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3

Altair Taurus
#28 - 2015-09-14 12:53:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Altair Taurus
Could you tell me how to "sell" LP for ISK??? I have plenty of LP now.



Regarding this mission. I thought Angel Extravaganza is one of the best paid L4 missions! A also get L4 missions when I can earn...several million ISK in total. Not sure about all that issue but I suppose this "LP business" is a crucial factor I do not know anything till now. Maybe I should buy something in LP store and then sell it on the market at higher price?
Anize Oramara
WarpTooZero
#29 - 2015-09-14 13:21:09 UTC
Altair Taurus wrote:
Could you tell me how to "sell" LP for ISK??? I have plenty of LP now.



Regarding this mission. I thought Angel Extravaganza is one of the best paid L4 missions! A also get L4 missions when I can earn...several million ISK in total. Not sure about all that issue but I suppose this "LP business" is a crucial factor I do not know anything till now. Maybe I should buy something in LP store and then sell it on the market at higher price?

That is the idea yes. That is why its important to pick the right LP store. Thucker tribe for example has a few good LP items I know. It requires some market research and such but is way worth it. Check eve-survival for how to blitz missions and check these forums for a thread on blitzing, has a lot of good info in it.

Pro-tip: Navy LP stores are the worst LP stores you can work for because thye share most(all?) items with FW so the items there, like faction ships, are absolutely garbage for isk/lp conversion. I have like 300k LP for Brutor that I can do jack with except keep me in faction ammo for the rest my eve career.

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3

Altair Taurus
#30 - 2015-09-14 13:25:15 UTC
So the best LP stores in EVE own SoE and pirate factions?
Anize Oramara
WarpTooZero
#31 - 2015-09-14 13:51:58 UTC
Altair Taurus wrote:
So the best LP stores in EVE own SoE and pirate factions?

SOE's pretty decent yea, though it's crashing atm. Thucker has lv4 mission hubs in HS and people say a lot of other factions and/or corps have 2k+/LP items.

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3

Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
#32 - 2015-09-14 14:16:10 UTC
CBD Corporation - currently getting 5K ISK/LP

crash away

Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .

Bumble's Space Log

erg cz
Federal Jegerouns
#33 - 2015-09-14 14:44:38 UTC
Daniela Doran wrote:
Altair Taurus wrote:
I do not really see those "hundredths millions ISK per hour"


Also don't go Angel Extrava, not worth the time.



So basically " those "hundredths millions ISK per hour"" means you you cherry pick your missions, which is doable for a few days in a location, where you have multiply agents. So you just keep blitzing "Dread Pirate Scarlet" every 15 minutes. In reality your standing will drop so fast, that after you blitz it 4 times you have to stop refusing normal missions and do normal 30-60 milions per hour. But you first special hour, during which your standing to the agent droped from +9.9 to -1, is the reason, why you can boast about "hundredths millions ISK per hour". I saw ppl, who actually even not did it for the whole hour. Just run some missions for a half an hour and then multiply their income *2 so they say "oh we are good". They win Eve? Yes, defenetly. Should you follow their lies? Hardly.
Other hidden pillar of many "hundredths millions ISK per hour" b***t is that they are done in pairs. You and your alt. You have to be able to finanse both accounts and those "hundredths" frankly speaking should be halved.

TL;DR Mission running can be fun if made in different ships (brawler and snipe fit gives you different experience) and without skipping 3 of 4 missions cause you can not blitz them. You will get nice views, find some random treasures in your MTU, make some ISK in between. Or you can make it your job, hunting those "hundredths millions ISK per hour"" in a stupid way of refusing most of missions, making the whole thing repetitive as ****. So you will quit sooner or later.

If you need ISK - sell PLEX. Do not make your game a job. Missions are not for hectic ISK grinding, they are for relaxed shooting red icons and indulge the sight of Cathedrals, ammar bunkers, drone constructions and so on.
stoicfaux
#34 - 2015-09-14 15:15:53 UTC
Altair Taurus wrote:
I do not really see those "hundredths millions ISK per hour" earned by running L4 missions. For instance today I did Angel Extravaganza mission: bounties - 19 mil, loot & salvage - 9 mil, reward - 2 mil. Taken together I earned 30 mil ISK spending 50 minutes for fighting and additional 30 minutes for salvaging in Noctis. That is 80 minutes or 1.33 hour in total which means my income was about 22.5 mil ISK per hour...

Vargur Income running Level 4s without blitzing (Rubicon 1.1) (Look at the googledocs spreadsheet.)

It's old data (pre-warp speed changes maybe? pre-loot price drop, etc.) but it should provide the general gist of what to look for if you want to "optimize" level 4s mission running.

Basically, travel time costs you isk. Especially if you go back in a second ship to loot/salvage, i.e. approximate isk/hour = (sell value of loot/salvage ) / (travel time + time looting/salvaging + time setting up sell orders) In the past, folks have stated that bookmarking a wreck in each room and then going back in a Noctis after several missions to do bulk cleanup can be as/more profitable then running a new mission.

LP conversion is the biggest factor. As you can see in the link.

Cherry picking missions and knowing what/how to blitz is important.

Using multiple ships (some missions can be blitzed in a shuttle or fast frigate) is important as well.

The relatively new Burner missions can also affect your level 4 income as well. (Understatement.)

Etc., etc.,

If this is overwhelming, you can always try blitzing level 3s (after you're done your LP/isk conversion rate research.)
Level 3s in a Mach: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=345580
Rail Tengu in Level 3s: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=408949 (I can't vouch for this one, I'm dubious about the methodology and record keeping.)

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.

Anize Oramara
WarpTooZero
#35 - 2015-09-14 15:18:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Anize Oramara
erg cz wrote:
Daniela Doran wrote:
Altair Taurus wrote:
I do not really see those "hundredths millions ISK per hour"


Also don't go Angel Extrava, not worth the time.



So basically " those "hundredths millions ISK per hour"" means you you cherry pick your missions, which is doable for a few days in a location, where you have multiply agents. So you just keep blitzing "Dread Pirate Scarlet" every 15 minutes. In reality your standing will drop so fast, that after you blitz it 4 times you have to stop refusing normal missions and do normal 30-60 milions per hour. But you first special hour, during which your standing to the agent droped from +9.9 to -1, is the reason, why you can boast about "hundredths millions ISK per hour". I saw ppl, who actually even not did it for the whole hour. Just run some missions for a half an hour and then multiply their income *2 so they say "oh we are good". They win Eve? Yes, defenetly. Should you follow their lies? Hardly.
Other hidden pillar of many "hundredths millions ISK per hour" b***t is that they are done in pairs. You and your alt. You have to be able to finanse both accounts and those "hundredths" frankly speaking should be halved.

TL;DR Mission running can be fun if made in different ships (brawler and snipe fit gives you different experience) and without skipping 3 of 4 missions cause you can not blitz them. You will get nice views, find some random treasures in your MTU, make some ISK in between. Or you can make it your job, hunting those "hundredths millions ISK per hour"" in a stupid way of refusing most of missions, making the whole thing repetitive as ****. So you will quit sooner or later.

If you need ISK - sell PLEX. Do not make your game a job. Missions are not for hectic ISK grinding, they are for relaxed shooting red icons and indulge the sight of Cathedrals, ammar bunkers, drone constructions and so on.

You are so very, very wrong.

I can, indefinately cherry pick missions and sustain 150-170m/h for as long as I can stay awake without logging a single alt. This is not boasting and my isk/h tests I always run 2h to 3h continuous without having to do upkeep missions. For the low, low price of 500mill I will teach anyone how to.

Or you know, you can pull your fingers out of your ears and look for the thread(s) on the forum explaining how.

ps. 6-7h to plex an account. And I kinda enjoy pushing my ship and skills to the limit to see how high I can get it to go.

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3

Anize Oramara
WarpTooZero
#36 - 2015-09-14 15:28:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Anize Oramara
stoicfaux wrote:
Altair Taurus wrote:
I do not really see those "hundredths millions ISK per hour" earned by running L4 missions. For instance today I did Angel Extravaganza mission: bounties - 19 mil, loot & salvage - 9 mil, reward - 2 mil. Taken together I earned 30 mil ISK spending 50 minutes for fighting and additional 30 minutes for salvaging in Noctis. That is 80 minutes or 1.33 hour in total which means my income was about 22.5 mil ISK per hour...

Vargur Income running Level 4s without blitzing (Rubicon 1.1) (Look at the googledocs spreadsheet.)

Hah blast from the past. Yes this was right when the warp changes dropped (Rubicon 1.1 Vargur is now slower, mach is vastly faster), pre burner missions (very few missions come close to burner missions in isk/h) and I think close to when marauders were buffed (Also Rubicon) and mobile tractor units launched (Rubicon 1.3), nuking a lot of the normally valuable meta 4 loot prices. Also LP rates were a little better as well

There might be some things you can do to get similar results to back then but still not as much as Mach Blitzing. It'd involve running burners (obviously), probably using polarized 800s and fitting warp speed rigs on the Vargur, using warp speed implants and maybe skipping a few more missions.

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3

Market McSelling Alt
Doomheim
#37 - 2015-09-14 21:00:20 UTC
Anize Oramara wrote:
stoicfaux wrote:
Altair Taurus wrote:
I do not really see those "hundredths millions ISK per hour" earned by running L4 missions. For instance today I did Angel Extravaganza mission: bounties - 19 mil, loot & salvage - 9 mil, reward - 2 mil. Taken together I earned 30 mil ISK spending 50 minutes for fighting and additional 30 minutes for salvaging in Noctis. That is 80 minutes or 1.33 hour in total which means my income was about 22.5 mil ISK per hour...

Vargur Income running Level 4s without blitzing (Rubicon 1.1) (Look at the googledocs spreadsheet.)

Hah blast from the past. Yes this was right when the warp changes dropped (Rubicon 1.1 Vargur is now slower, mach is vastly faster), pre burner missions (very few missions come close to burner missions in isk/h) and I think close to when marauders were buffed (Also Rubicon) and mobile tractor units launched (Rubicon 1.3), nuking a lot of the normally valuable meta 4 loot prices. Also LP rates were a little better as well

There might be some things you can do to get similar results to back then but still not as much as Mach Blitzing. It'd involve running burners (obviously), probably using polarized 800s and fitting warp speed rigs on the Vargur, using warp speed implants and maybe skipping a few more missions.



Yeah, and a valuable tool. Because if you change the market values to today's rates, and figure the warp changes and processing changes.

The Vargur goes from 88mil @1000/lp to under 70mil.

So there was nothing wrong with erg cz's statement. Cherry picking is the only way to produce the insane and unsustainable numbers. And with the dropping of LP ratios good luck making more than 100mil/hr for more than a day.

CCP Quant: Of all those who logon in Eve, 1.5% do Incursions, 13.8% PVP and 19.2% run Missions while 22.4% mine.

40.7% Join a fleet. The idea that Eve is a PVP game is false, the social fabric is in Missions and Mining.

Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#38 - 2015-09-14 21:48:47 UTC
Anize Oramara wrote:
erg cz wrote:
Daniela Doran wrote:
Altair Taurus wrote:
I do not really see those "hundredths millions ISK per hour"


Also don't go Angel Extrava, not worth the time.



So basically " those "hundredths millions ISK per hour"" means you you cherry pick your missions, which is doable for a few days in a location, where you have multiply agents. So you just keep blitzing "Dread Pirate Scarlet" every 15 minutes. In reality your standing will drop so fast, that after you blitz it 4 times you have to stop refusing normal missions and do normal 30-60 milions per hour. But you first special hour, during which your standing to the agent droped from +9.9 to -1, is the reason, why you can boast about "hundredths millions ISK per hour". I saw ppl, who actually even not did it for the whole hour. Just run some missions for a half an hour and then multiply their income *2 so they say "oh we are good". They win Eve? Yes, defenetly. Should you follow their lies? Hardly.
Other hidden pillar of many "hundredths millions ISK per hour" b***t is that they are done in pairs. You and your alt. You have to be able to finanse both accounts and those "hundredths" frankly speaking should be halved.

TL;DR Mission running can be fun if made in different ships (brawler and snipe fit gives you different experience) and without skipping 3 of 4 missions cause you can not blitz them. You will get nice views, find some random treasures in your MTU, make some ISK in between. Or you can make it your job, hunting those "hundredths millions ISK per hour"" in a stupid way of refusing most of missions, making the whole thing repetitive as ****. So you will quit sooner or later.

If you need ISK - sell PLEX. Do not make your game a job. Missions are not for hectic ISK grinding, they are for relaxed shooting red icons and indulge the sight of Cathedrals, ammar bunkers, drone constructions and so on.

You are so very, very wrong.

I can, indefinately cherry pick missions and sustain 150-170m/h for as long as I can stay awake without logging a single alt. This is not boasting and my isk/h tests I always run 2h to 3h continuous without having to do upkeep missions. For the low, low price of 500mill I will teach anyone how to.

Or you know, you can pull your fingers out of your ears and look for the thread(s) on the forum explaining how.

ps. 6-7h to plex an account. And I kinda enjoy pushing my ship and skills to the limit to see how high I can get it to go.


confirming, nearly everything on that. shortest burner mission is ~4 mins, long is 10, and that usually means I made a mistake. Team burners have slightly different parameters, but also pay more.

as far as the learn how bit, just carefully read page one, maybe follow a link, I might have even posted it, no way I'm giving any easy hits here. I'm trying to determine the min/max of declining buffer missions (aka anything that isn't a burner or dread pirate scarlet). I had it at almost 0, but had a bad decline streak, and have 1 or 2 missions in contention, but my standings are going up, so might drop that. I tracked an hour of missions the other day, to see how close/far off that claims of another poster were. Looking at my standings log it looks like that hour was very typical.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter

Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#39 - 2015-09-14 21:53:18 UTC
Bumblefck wrote:
CBD Corporation - currently getting 5K ISK/LP

crash away

I wouldn't count on it Blink

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter

Daniela Doran
Doomheim
#40 - 2015-09-15 01:55:55 UTC
Anize Oramara wrote:
Altair Taurus wrote:
So the best LP stores in EVE own SoE and pirate factions?

SOE's pretty decent yea, though it's crashing atm. Thucker has lv4 mission hubs in HS and people say a lot of other factions and/or corps have 2k+/LP items.


I've notice this myself. Besides Thuker who else has a good LP/isk to run missions for?