These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Warfare & Tactics

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
Previous page12
 

Deal with RLML ?
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Triakis Cadelanne
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2015-09-08 19:13:46 UTC
Me not having flown a Cyna doesn't mean I've seen this situation or heard someone who experienced it. I took this exemple because Cynabal is a relatively tanky kiter.

But if you want me to talk about my past experience I can tell the same story about Stabber vs Caracal, or anything flewn with single or double LSE vs RLML Caracal. If you got less than 20k EHP vs a Caracal then your only hope is that he'll be dumb enough to be baited at shooting volleys while you're out of range.
Sheeth Athonille
Rabid Dogz Mining
#22 - 2015-09-09 02:36:22 UTC
Estella Osoka wrote:
All I'm hearing is, "WAHHHH! A Orthrus killed my Cynabal! WAAAHHH! It's OP!"


Now I've never flown either, and hardly use missiles at all, but sounds to me like you're saying "WAHHHH! I love RLML! Please don't nerf!"
Estella Osoka
Cranky Bitches Who PMS
#23 - 2015-09-09 14:07:53 UTC
Sheeth Athonille wrote:
Estella Osoka wrote:
All I'm hearing is, "WAHHHH! A Orthrus killed my Cynabal! WAAAHHH! It's OP!"


Now I've never flown either, and hardly use missiles at all, but sounds to me like you're saying "WAHHHH! I love RLML! Please don't nerf!"


I've flown and lost RLML Cerbs and Caracals. I haven't flown an Orthrus, because I just hate the look of that ship.

I'll tell you what though, if you are all for them reseting it back to pre-nerf settings; I'm fine with that.
Triakis Cadelanne
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#24 - 2015-09-10 01:10:12 UTC
It's not because they've been nerfed once that it was enough :)
Svetlana Laknaya
Khushakor Clan
#25 - 2015-09-10 10:04:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Svetlana Laknaya
A more accurate tl;dr is "I am mad paper beats rock, because rock is supposed to be much more tough than paper."

Take a blaster thorax against a caracal, unless it started the fight with a significant positional advantage the thorax will catch that caracal and kill it. So, scissors are cutting paper, say you take and AC stabber against that caracal, chances are the caracal will kill it, unless the stabber pulls range enough to let the caracal waste it's clip then dives back in. So paper is covering rock. This is how the game works, and how it is supposed to work. Barring a specific scenario certain weapons/ships counter each other

This is along the lines of arty firetail is too OP because it killed a daredevil. Yes even with that bonus starting at the right range it is very possible to have that happen. It doesn't mean the daredevil needs a buff or dual webs need a nerf it means you brought scissors to fight a rock, so htfu and adapt tactics around the meta.
Triakis Cadelanne
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2015-09-10 19:05:10 UTC
Svetlana Laknaya wrote:
Barring a specific scenario certain weapons/ships counter each other.


I agree with this. However RLML are not supposed to counter cruisers as they're designed to be the perfect anti-frgiate weapon. But they're also the perfect missile system against cruisers, and they're not really countered by short range weapon systems.

If I take your scissors (Thorax) I'm sure they won't cut your paper (Caracal) because :

a - Thorax will be plated and so will get outranged by the Caracal ;
b - Thorax will be armor rep / shield buffer and will die before catching the Caracal and cutting through his buffer.

Ofc this isn't true if the Thorax is already waiting the Caracal at beacon but we talk about how it is without "significant positional advantage"

Basically, when a setup for a shiptype is outclassing anything else for this shiptype there's something wrong. And if you go out in null or just look at zkillboard you'll see that's what's happening to popular missile cruisers. Even Gilas which are supposed to be tough fighters, bringing heavy and constant DPS with both missiles and drones, are fitted with RLML. RLML is king in any small scale gang and so there's something wrong.
Reynas Arthie
Doomheim
#27 - 2015-09-11 06:24:39 UTC
I can't remember seeing anyone be really worried by a RLML caracal in any of the other combat or attack cruisers tbh. It's pretty easy to tank the burst damage and then murder the caracal during it's reload cycle.

Hell if you want to be really cheesy fit out a beam Omen and just melt him before he realises what it was he was supposed to be doing.
Switch Savage
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2015-09-11 13:28:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Switch Savage
Triakis Cadelanne wrote:
Svetlana Laknaya wrote:
Barring a specific scenario certain weapons/ships counter each other.


I agree with this. However RLML are not supposed to counter cruisers as they're designed to be the perfect anti-frgiate weapon. But they're also the perfect missile system against cruisers, and they're not really countered by short range weapon systems.

If I take your scissors (Thorax) I'm sure they won't cut your paper (Caracal) because :

a - Thorax will be plated and so will get outranged by the Caracal ;
b - Thorax will be armor rep / shield buffer and will die before catching the Caracal and cutting through his buffer.

Ofc this isn't true if the Thorax is already waiting the Caracal at beacon but we talk about how it is without "significant positional advantage"

Basically, when a setup for a shiptype is outclassing anything else for this shiptype there's something wrong. And if you go out in null or just look at zkillboard you'll see that's what's happening to popular missile cruisers. Even Gilas which are supposed to be tough fighters, bringing heavy and constant DPS with both missiles and drones, are fitted with RLML. RLML is king in any small scale gang and so there's something wrong.


A RLML Caracal cannot break a standard ancil/medium rep Thorax. Not to mention the Thorax is marginally faster than the Caracal making offensive or defensive slingshots very easy.

RLML only got worse with the addition of T3Ds as the vast majority of fits can straight up tank any RLML setup.
Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2015-09-12 11:16:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Demerius Xenocratus
Do not fly low EHP, low DPS kiting ships with minimal or no active tank against an RLML cruiser. That is all.

P.S. special case do not attempt to solo an Orthrus in anything. Not because of RLML but for an accumulation of reasons that ship is hideously broken/cancerous.

If Guristas/Mordus hull; bring blob with hero scram frigates. All other RLML, don't be a 20K EHP Stabber.

Most RLML ships are trash vs active tanks.
Triakis Cadelanne
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2015-09-13 18:31:31 UTC
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
Do not fly low EHP, low DPS kiting ships with minimal or no active tank against an RLML cruiser. That is all.


I guess it's the only way even if it's killing damn logic.
Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#31 - 2015-09-14 00:52:51 UTC
RLML's are designed specifically to kill small, fast things that don't have a big tank. It's pretty logical. Don't fly those things against RLML ships.
Yang Aurilen
State War Academy
Caldari State
#32 - 2015-09-14 01:10:47 UTC
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
Do not fly low EHP, low DPS kiting ships with minimal or no active tank against an RLML cruiser. That is all.

P.S. special case do not attempt to solo an Orthrus in anything. Not because of RLML but for an accumulation of reasons that ship is hideously broken/cancerous.

If Guristas/Mordus hull; bring blob with hero scram frigates. All other RLML, don't be a 20K EHP Stabber.

Most RLML ships are trash vs active tanks.


What's your stance on the new BC buffs? From my understanding BC's are gonna be the long range medium guns/missile platforms that will hopefully put a dent to the current kiting meta.

Post with your NPC alt main and not your main main alt!
Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#33 - 2015-09-14 05:41:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Demerius Xenocratus
Yang Aurilen wrote:
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
Do not fly low EHP, low DPS kiting ships with minimal or no active tank against an RLML cruiser. That is all.

P.S. special case do not attempt to solo an Orthrus in anything. Not because of RLML but for an accumulation of reasons that ship is hideously broken/cancerous.

If Guristas/Mordus hull; bring blob with hero scram frigates. All other RLML, don't be a 20K EHP Stabber.

Most RLML ships are trash vs active tanks.


What's your stance on the new BC buffs? From my understanding BC's are gonna be the long range medium guns/missile platforms that will hopefully put a dent to the current kiting meta.


Some corpmates were talking about it but I haven't read the notes yet. Apparently Hurricanes are going to be good again. I think there have been several threads where people talked about the need for BC's to be more effective at countering cruisers, thus giving them a more prominent role in the current meta. I think maybe CCP actually paid attention to some of those comments, because improving BC projection significantly seems like a good move with that goal in mind.

Gonna go look that up now I think.

Oh yea, the fleet Hurricane is gonna be a monster. The Brutix is going to be scary I think too with speed/agility buffs.

Thank you, Stitch Kaneland.
d0cTeR9
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#34 - 2015-09-15 00:16:49 UTC
30 second reload time, crappy damage unless on a few specific fit/ships.



Hardly OP....

Been around since the beginning.
Previous page12