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new scanning user interface testing on sisi

First post First post
Ransu Asanari
Caldari State
#21 - 2015-09-11 22:22:15 UTC
Arla Sarain wrote:

*The new window lacks the "show anomalies" toggle tick box.

It's been moved to the "Right Click" menu if you mouse over "Filtered", so it's still there but not as obvious. Same with the ability to filter scan results by type, or ignored signatures:

I definitely think it needs to be more obvious, as I thought all of that functionality was missing originally as well.
Maria Kitiare
#22 - 2015-09-11 22:22:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Maria Kitiare
Wow.. I don't even..
Are you sure you considered feedback? Cause I don't really see any big improvements over the horrible beta map?

I mean.. Did the guys making this even try to zoom out and move their probes with "scanner probe" markers turned on? - If you can't move your probes, it isn't really a UI for probing, is it?

If you are in Thera, you can't even zoom out enough to see the entire system(same issue on the beta map).

Having it in a new window isn't even an improvement imo. Cause you are locking down all the windows behind it, and with the amount of space it takes, you can't really place it anywhere where it isn't in the way (unless you extend your client over several screens).

I think my best piece of feedback is to scrap the betamap, scrap this new probe window and put those dev hours somewhere else. God knows, EVE got enough bugs you guys can sort out. ;)

(I am running EVE in 1920x1080 Fixed Window on my 24" monitor for reference)
Almost Dangerous
Wolves Amongst Strangers
#23 - 2015-09-11 22:41:12 UTC  |  Edited by: SpaceSaft
Is it already over? Is there a new button or something I have to check on Sisi, like with the beta galaxy map? Can't seem to find the thing to test it...
Ransu Asanari
Caldari State
#24 - 2015-09-11 22:43:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Ransu Asanari
Updates After Downtime:

  • Grey/Green background is now replaced with generic nebulae skybox. It's pixelated and distracting, and doesn't match the actual system background. While graphically it might be an improvement for casual use, please give us the option to turn it off and just go completely black background for efficiency. See bottom left for pixellation:

  • Related to above, we will need the ability to turn off the Sun lighting in a system. Because zooming in on the system core, for example in Thera and having your retinas destroyed will get old REALLY fast:

  • The "Recover Active Probes" icon, and all those probe icons are looking finer detail - a big improvement.

  • When you jump into a system, the "Focus Current Location" button doesn't focus and zoom you in on YOUR location, but centers on the Sun. The "You Are Here" icon is also on the sun when you're actually on the gate, as shown by the tactical overlay ranging. Possible bug because you haven't spawned yet? Screenshot:

  • Scan Results is now a thin line on underneath the signature description. Not sure why this change was made - I don't really like it compared to having the entire row background bar update. It doesn't compact anything, and I don't think anyone was asking for this in the Scan Results window:

  • 100% Signature no longer goes from a Dot to the "Beacon" icon. That, or it's just not consistent: Either way, the circle and icon are still WAY too large and need to scale down a lot more when completely zoomed in.

  • Cosmic Anomalies when unchecked are being added to the Filtered list. This is going to mess with a lot of people, and is going to lead to problems later when you have to account for Citadels, Faction Warfare Complexes and other "Cosmic Anomalies" which should be completely separate from Cosmic Signatures and be able to quickly turn on/off. Would rather see the checkbox more visble but not count towards filters at all:

The Order of Thelemic Ascension
The Invited
#25 - 2015-09-11 23:52:26 UTC
I hate to say this but this seems to have clearly been done by someone who has very little to no practical experience trolling the space lanes. This is by far a step back from even the current map system.

I am going to have to look at this a second time because the only feedback I have is a wall of frustration after looking at it for 2 minutes.
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#26 - 2015-09-12 00:03:24 UTC
Aladar Dangerface wrote:
Jack Miton wrote:
This gets a 10/10, A++ and a huge fkn gold star for moving the recall probes button away from right next to the analyze button!!!!
Actually functionality is aparently bad based on feedback from people I reasonably trust though (I don't do sisi myself)

I posted this on the little things post a couple of weeks back, you're welcome :)

I mean, I've been complaining about it and posting about it, along with a bunch of other people since late 2009 but sure, I bet it was all you.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:

Down the Pipe:

#27 - 2015-09-12 02:56:58 UTC
There is a lot of work to be done on the actual interface as noted above but for me the overall feel of the new probing is that it's a lot more snappy and fast in ui feedback, compared to the overall wading through molasses feel that the beta map probing had.

Which is very good.
Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery
Sending Thots And Players
#28 - 2015-09-12 07:20:34 UTC
You wanted people to not live in wormholes and this is your best effort at achieving that so far. Bravo, Team Dinkus Garglers.
Montecore Qubaal
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#29 - 2015-09-12 09:06:42 UTC
My largest fear is that CCP might not realize how we use the solar system map and that it’s not just about scanning. When I’m scouting in wormhole space, the solar system map is my main view. I even fly my ship around using the map instead of the overview. I’m a visual person so it works much better for me then using the overview. When I’m scanning, I’m also flying my ship, using dscan and watching my overview, chat windows, and local. I want to be able to do all those things, which I can do in the old solar system map, while scanning.

Here are some things I noticed when trying out the scanning interface on SISI.

In general, the icons obstruct the box and arrow handles which are used to reposition the probes. This is very annoying. I’m not sure how to fix this since sometimes you need to interact with the icon and other times you need to interact with the probe positioning handles. I can say that I don’t have this problem with the old solar system map. There are two situations where this annoyance frequently occurs.

  1. The probe icons need to be turned off by default. They obstruct the box and arrow handles which are used to reposition the probes.
  2. After scanning down a signature, the signature icon is directly covering the box and arrow handles which are used to reposition the probes.

The Filtered and Ignored menus are not immediately noticeable and therefore are not as intuitive as they could be. I couldn’t figure out how to unignore signals. I gave up and moved on to other things. After a while I found those menus by accident. Now that I’ve found them, I like them.

Scan results window

  • I was not able to increase the width of the scan results window. It’s hard to read the info in there.
  • I miss the group column and would like to see that added back in.
  • I don’t like the scan progress underline. I prefer the old, full row coloring.
  • As many others have said, when you click on a signal only that signal should be shown on the map. This helps so much when trying to scan down a signal.

The blinding sun is not good. You can’t see anything when you are zoomed in close to the sun.

I like the button that centers the display on your ship.

I like the clicking to center the display on a celestial/sig/anom though I think it should require a double click instead of a single click. With single click you sometime center the display when you didn’t mean to. When zoomed out, you should be able to click on a cluster of object to center the display instead of having to go into the menu or zoom in to click a specific object.

Needs a full screen mode which doesn’t obscure other windows though I assume there will be since the beta map has that option.

I learned to play eve using the radial menu so I’m very sad I can’t use the radial menu in this scanning interface and beta map. It works better for me then right click menus.

The ship icon needs to stand out more. I’m thinking it should be colored so it can quickly be found. In the old map you could quickly find your ship because of the big “you are here” label. In the scanning interface and beta map, it’s hard for me to quickly see where my ship is. While the range markers are a visual cue where your ship is, you can’t see those markers when zoomed in to look at a planet and it’s moons. (I zoom in like this when scouting a POS and trying to not get caught in a bubble trap.)

Speaking of the range markers, I never used those in the old map and didn’t realize I could turn that on. I would always hover over objects to see their range. Again, this is much nicer than using the overview to find ranges. I would like the hover to find range feature added to the scanning interface / beta map.

Bookmarks are very important to me in this view. They need to be viewable at all zoom levels.

Another feature I didn’t know existed in the old solar system map is the ability to aim your dscan with the map. I think I’ll start using this feature so I’ll add this to my list as well.

A minor nitpick I have is the interface shows nebula that doesn't match the system you're in. It looks very weird and breaks immersion. It’s not that important though.

What would be really nice is if the solar system view and scanning could be integrated into the main game view.
Kalel Nimrott
Caldari Provisions
#30 - 2015-09-12 10:26:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Kalel Nimrott
The things that matter.
Moving probes is a 8itch.
Not showing your route when you set a destination is a 8itch.
The music or ambient sound that you cannot turn off is a 8itch.
Couple of small things are a 8itch, specially this one "I would suggest getting rid of tooltips completely for celestial objects (planets, moons, stations, sun). I really don’t like having them in the probe view as I want as fine detail as possible, and they overlap each other - especially with moons."
What a 8itch...

Edit: Found another one. System Info also not available. Ownership, system name, etc.

Bob Artis, you will be missed.


Pulling The Plug
#31 - 2015-09-14 09:52:47 UTC
When I land + get home i'll jump on SiSi + see excited.
Ransu Asanari
Caldari State
#32 - 2015-09-14 22:40:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Ransu Asanari
Maybe Corbexx or someone from Team Psycho Sisters could come by and talk about the requirements and goals for this new scanning interface and the new map. Considering all of the work done on it, there's a lot of difficulty in just getting it to feature parity for combat probing and DSCAN, and I'd be interested in what they've set out for themselves, considering the effort that's been put in.

Previous Devblogs:

From these devblogs:

  • improving both the visual experience and usability of the map
  • Updated Visuals
  • We’ve put the map in an actual space scene with nebulas and stars and ditched the old flat black background.
  • We’ve also made a lot of changes to coloring, highlighting, and labeling in the map to improve readability and aesthetic appeal (sexiness).
  • Adding windowed mode to make scanning resizable and retain 100% functionality of fullscreen mode. Allow you to use a second monitor for scanning interface while retaining full game control.

So improving the visual experience and usability sounds great. A lot of the testing shows that usability is actually WORSE than the old map currently. We are still a long way from feature parity, and missing DSCAN functionality inside the map is a big part of this. I think more details on exactly what the goals for the change are here.

Updating visuals - this is more of what I'd like to hear back from the team on. Is there a technical limitation on why the old map can't be iterated on? My guess is that the type of vector graphics they're using has limitations and cant just be imported into a window? The old map is very minimalistic but very usable, other than a few minor complaints like the floating Star Map/Solar System Map window, and lack of dynamic visual DSCAN range.

Putting the skybox into the solar system map aesthetically is very nice, and I think newer players or casual scanners will appreciate it. But please make sure there is an option for us to keep the flat black background for client performance, efficiency and removing distractions.

Honestly I think you should review the changes for coloring/highlighting/labelling. The use of tooltip popups is VERY annoying in the new map because of how detailed we need to drill down sometimes, especially when combat scanning. The old map having the small celestial icons for sun, planets, moons, etc works very well. Personally I'd rather keep this way, because the tooltips stack on top of themselves. are very large and don't scale down as you zoom in well. Go back and look at some of the feedback from the overlay stacking - as this was some good work for managing these old type of icons.

In terms of the galaxy map, that's another place I have a lot of feedback, but I don't use the Beta map a lot because the classic galaxy map is much easier to read and find hotspots for pilots in space, ratting numbers ,etc. The same when flattened for looking at stargate routes, which I don't believe the new galaxy map can do. The "Abstract Layout" is sort of flattened, and the heat dots for info is getting better, but still needs a lot of work.

Adding the windowed mode was a good goal because switching between the game interface and fullscreen scanning interface is slow, and limits what you can do while you're scanning. Being able to take advantage of multi monitor setups is a very good idea. The self-contained probe results window need an option to be removed however, so single monitor setups who want to use window mode don't have it taking up unneeded space, or if we want to fullscreen in single-monitor mode we can use our existing window setups. For example, I typically have my scanning window open fullscreen on one monitor, and Siggy/Tripwire on the other in a browser window to make updates.

Edit: Thanks to CCP Goliath for discussing this a bit further on Reddit.
Ransu Asanari
Caldari State
#33 - 2015-09-14 22:57:57 UTC
Another important point: Make sure the text results from the Scan Results is consistent for us to copy/paste. This is huge for third party tools like Siggy and Tripwire, and I don't want them to have to parse the scan results differently. For example:

Classic Map Results:

CGW-624 Cosmic Signature Wormhole Unstable Wormhole 100.00% 8.56 AU

New Test Map Results:

8.56 AU CGW-624 Unstable Wormhole 100.0%

As mentioned before, some of the columns are just missing from the new map right now, but the copy text order is wrong as well, despite looking the same.
Vala Ancalagon
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2015-09-15 00:41:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Vala Ancalagon
I have commented on the two previous feedback threads for the beta map so I'll do so again.

First what has improved over the "old beta" design!
- The sloggy inertia feel is gone, honestly my main difficulty using the old beta map.
- The circle cursor is gone, another huge improvement. Now I can point at things!
- I like how the sig shows what % it is identified right on the object!
- Bookmarks appear to work now in wh's through the map, thank you for the right click options!

What still needs improvement (imo of course)
- Drop the black balloon backgrounds, they aren't necessary, and clutter it up.
- The arrows for moving around the probes are awkward, but I'm not sure I have a suggestion for that. That isn't anything new with the beta map of course.
- It would be really nice if this window could be moved outside of the client. Then it could be put up on a second monitor for instance.
- The icons lag behind the system when dragging the map around. This one isn't major, just an observation.
- I ran into a bug where when moving the probes around, the center of the probe cluster gets very bright and overwhelms the screen. It didn't happen the first time I tried it. Haven't reproduced it yet.

Another note: I don't really think you needed to eliminate the ability to zoom directly out to the larger star map, but maybe that was something you had to do on the code side. I did kind of like the cohesiveness of being able to view everything then zoom all the way into your current system.
Market McSelling Alt
#35 - 2015-09-15 00:45:21 UTC
corbexx wrote:
this is from the team working on the scanning UI.

Team Psycho Sisters invite you to try out our new Scanning interface on the Singularity test server. We have made some changes to the interface based on feedback on the new map, and have pulled scanning out of the map entirely to reside in its own window. The feature can be accessed by Ctrl-Left Clicking the Probe Scanner button. This is a temporary place for the feature while we perform some user experience testing on it.
For help on how to connect to the Singularity test server, please see this helpdesk article:
Please try out all the scanning use cases you care to, especially ones you use frequently on Tranquility. To give us feedback, please fill in this short survey following your time testing out the new interface.

This crap looks like it was designed by a Goon!

Oh wait Roll

CCP Quant: Of all those who logon in Eve, 1.5% do Incursions, 13.8% PVP and 19.2% run Missions while 22.4% mine.

40.7% Join a fleet. The idea that Eve is a PVP game is false, the social fabric is in Missions and Mining.

helana Tsero
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#36 - 2015-09-15 06:22:18 UTC
Tried it. Liked the resizable window.

Functionality is alright accept for

Problem one
Can probe range be displayed on the probe circles so we can minimise the drop down box that shows
Probe 1 -5AU
Probe 2 - 5AU
without losing functionality.

Problem Two
I should be able to tight beam (15 degreee) dscan using this new interface window by lining my ship(current postion icon) up with a anom etc like I can in the current solar system map.

Problem Three
Need distance to planets,anoms, sigs as a hover tool tip like current solar system map.

Note when I refer to current solar system map I mean the original map. Not the beta one.

"...ppl need to get out of caves and they will see something new.... thats where eve is placed... not in cave."  | zoonr-Korsairs |

Meanwhile Citadel release issues: "tried to bug report this and the bug report is bugged as well" | Rafeau |

Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
#37 - 2015-09-16 07:45:10 UTC
What is the base concept above merging probes tab with system solar map? This may be good for wormhole life when you scan one or few systems, but for 25+ jumps exploring it will be pain. First thing I do after jump is checking probes tab for anoms and sigs, do I have to open solar system map every time?
Also tactical overlay showed on map should be 14,3 AU why 25? Can't D-scan that far anyway.

"I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville

Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#38 - 2015-09-16 20:34:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Tipa Riot
Could not test myself yet ... but besides the feature parity on the probe and results management my top 3 for a usuable scanning view (all possible with classic map):

1. Separation of map window and results window, it's crucial to be able to keep scanning in "flight/combat mode"
2. Full zoom in and out, especially in Thera. You need to able to visually tell that a ship is (not) co-located with which moon.
3. Exact distance of objects displayed in map. You need to be able to see if a ship is a couple 1k away from a POS/moon.

BTW, why is CCP answering questions on Reddit and keeps quiet in it's own forum???

I'm my own NPC alt.

CCP Goliath
C C P Alliance
#39 - 2015-09-17 14:35:04 UTC
Heyyyy you guyyys,

So, first off on behalf of Team Psycho Sisters, thanks so much for all of this feedback. We've got lots of it from here, reddit, survey, anecdotes, and Corbexx has some more for us too that he's been gathering through his channels. In the spirit of iteration, we thought we'd share some of the inital changes that have been made to the new interface based on the feedback. Please note that this list, while comprehensive of changes that have already been made, is not indicative of the final shape of the product and we are absolutely looking for an ongoing discussion so that we can deliver a scanning interface we can all be proud of and have fun using.

Before I give you the list though, I wanted to let you know about my own EVE background. I started playing in 2010 and did the oh-so-familiar train-mine-quit cycle. Came back with a friend a few weeks later, hooked up with other friends that had been playing for a while, did some missioning until that got old and then it was off to wormhole space! I've lived out of C1-4 holes, never a 5 or 6, since then (barring a brief sojourn into FW, which was fun but lacked the awesome dread that WH space imparts to me - and I'm not talking Moros). I do a ton of scanning, mainly sigs but a fair bit of combat too, so I have a lot of attachment to the scanning system, though who knows - I may use it in totally different ways to many of you. From reading this thread alone, it is clear that scanning styles and use cases vary wildly and that's one of the reasons it's so important to the team to have this discourse and iron out discrepancies.

Anyway, enough about me! Here are the changes made so far, in no particular order, based on your feedback. The new interface has been re-enabled again on Singularity, available via Ctrl-Click on the existing Probe Scanner button. Give it another go and let us know how you feel!

- Reverted probe position controls to the old one
- Removed experimental alt-click probe positioning
- Fixed position update on probe markers on init and probe warp
- Tweaked colors of probes and scene, removed starfield
- Added sun marker filter (applies to all new maps)
- Changed appearance and behaviour of probe move/scale controls
- Visibility of scan result in 3D scene reflects selection state of result list
- Decreased min size of probe scan window
- Made standard filters toggleable through 1,2,3,4,5 keys (this only works when the window is active and does not overwrite other bindings, and cannot be rebound)
- Added distance on celesital and scan result markers (applies to map as well)
- Made it possible to scan by hitting RETURN when window has focus
- Added smaller "No probes deployed" hint so its visible if the probes menu is at its min size
- Making ignored result clickable to reset the state, changed icon to X
- Adding help icon explaining probe position modifier keys
- Change Range only accessible while pressing ALT
- Added menu icon on filtered and ignored status texts
- Added support for configurable min height in DockPanelMenu allowing probe menu to be resized to one entry
- Tweaked fadeout distance on bookmark markers (applies to map as well)
- Synced the tooltip delay to inflight-bracket tooltip delay
- Added camera center offset to mapview camera
- Fixed spots in 3D scene for planets and moons
- cleaned up scan result entry
- Unified probe, intersection, warpline, movement line colors
- Added map backdrop
- Removed probe status in probelist
- Dimmed the starfield
- Polished icons on formation and probe buttons
- Tweaked appearance of menu resize handles
- Tweaked the layout so all controls are in the sidepanel
- Re-enabled the new probe scan window by CTRL-Click probescan button
- Implemented highlight indication on probes and results

CCP Goliath | QA Director | EVE Illuminati | @CCP_Goliath

Chance Ravinne
WiNGSPAN Delivery Services
WiNGSPAN Delivery Network
#40 - 2015-09-17 15:05:03 UTC
These changes are amazing. Will jump on later to test. Thank you for making so many of the important tweaks.

You've just read another awesome post by Chance Ravinne, CEO of EVE's #1 torpedo delivery service. Watch our misadventures on my YouTube channel: WINGSPANTT