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Dev Blog: Next set of Sov and Capital Movement Iterations

First post First post
Author
Sentamon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#141 - 2015-09-12 04:04:41 UTC
http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/coalitionsov/Coalitioninfluence.png

Nullsec was in danger of being owned by more then 2 boring entities. Changes had to be implemented quickly to make sure this never came to be.

~ Professional Forum Alt  ~

Andreus Ixiris
Duty.
SE7EN-SINS
#142 - 2015-09-12 04:13:52 UTC
CCP Masterplan wrote:
Something like a 'Abandon ownership' option? We don't have anything like that planned, but it is an interesting idea. What sort of situation would you see this being used for?

Saying "we didn't want that outpost anyway" and actually meaning it.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

Eyrun Mangeiri
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#143 - 2015-09-12 05:31:02 UTC
afkalt wrote:
I want to see active fleets rewarded, I don't want passive defences to be the one stop shop for defence. They will be, once again.

A lot of people hate nullification but it's the only decent counter to anchorable spam.


As the defender should commit something to defend their space the attacker should also commit something. Defending space with bubbles is equally as bad as attacking space with a uncatchable 50m ISK hull.

I can see what you see not - vision milky then eyes rot. When you turn they will be gone - whispering their hidden song.

Dreiden Kisada
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#144 - 2015-09-12 06:52:52 UTC
Sentamon wrote:
http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/coalitionsov/Coalitioninfluence.png

Nullsec was in danger of being owned by more then 2 boring entities. Changes had to be implemented quickly to make sure this never came to be.


Yea man, all that space was flipping and being taken from the Imperiums corpse like han.....


Oh wait, that didn't actually happen.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#145 - 2015-09-12 06:54:12 UTC
Eliminating Interceptors is a good start - but Entosis links should be restricted to Command Ships only.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Baron Holbach
The Northerners
Northern Coalition.
#146 - 2015-09-12 06:57:59 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Eliminating Interceptors is a good start - but Entosis links should be restricted to Command Ships only.


bc hulls would be more better idea (command ships, bc, faction bc)
Alekseyev Karrde
Noir.
The Network.
#147 - 2015-09-12 07:25:22 UTC
Removing entosis from inties, not a huge deal.

Passive recharge, medium deal. I think the idea is good but the times for auto recovery seem a little on the quick side.

Reducing fatigue cap from 30 days to 5 days, kind of a big deal.

By having a jump-as-much-as-you-want-its-gone-by-next-weekend cap the Phoebe changes enter a worst of both worlds realm. Constant capital/super force projection becomes much more trivial while maintaining the frustration level for short term/small gang applications like black ops bridging and suitcase carriers.

If a reduction is in order, I'd strongly encourage to reconsider revising the reduced number upwards to something like 10-15 days. That would still be a significant reduction while maintaining the intended anti-projection effect.

Otherwise why bother having it at all?

Alek the Kidnapper, Hero of the CSM

Kimimaro Yoga
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#148 - 2015-09-12 07:29:34 UTC
Very happy to see these changes implemented. I'm all for having the ability to conduct asymmetrical warfare, but magic wanting a few things then not showing up for the timers isn't warfare, it's just trolling. Creating boring busywork for the holders of space.

To make it clear just how little the current system is generating fights, my alliance has largely stopped responding to the initial entosis attacks because there's never any fighting involved, just a rage form followed by watching the attacker rush off. Attackers actually committing to holding the grid is virtually nonexistent. Removing entosis from interceptors will greatly reduce the troll factor (although I would have liked to see entosis links function like siege mode, stopping all further movement until the cycle is done. Control the grid, or GTFO). And while I agree with the earlier comment that the regen windows may be just a bit short, as a genuine attacker who gets slowed down could too easily miss the window entirely, regen itself is a great idea. Attacker doesn't show up to contest a timer? Then the defender shouldn't have to waste their time sitting around.

Concerning the unspecified modifications to the fatigue numbers: Please consider the following usage cases.
#1. Capital fleet takes one single jump, followed by a couple gates. Shoots a hostile POS, and instead of jumping home spends twenty minutes sitting idle in order to get down to 11 minutes fatigue (and thus not preventing them from participating in an op later that day). One jump out and one back means you're done for the day? Harsh.
#2. Capital fleet takes two jumps out, with a gate or two in between. Maybe 15 LY, in order to brawl with some hostiles. Capital fleet now has so much fatigue that people are unable to jump home in a reasonable time frame, let's say three hours from undock to docking back up. So the fight simply doesn't happen, as capital pilots don't usually want to logoff in unfriendly space and hope to find an escort home the next day. Or maybe the fight does happen, and now you have pilots not logging in for days because they have trouble getting home safely.
#2 works the other way as well. Most capital groups don't want to attack larger entities with their capital ships because staging two jumps away from your targets is too far, and staging within 5LY of your targets is generally impracticable.

If the fatigue per LY jumped were lowered by say 25%, this would largely eliminate the above complaints. One jump out, one jump back wouldn't mean sitting around waiting for fatigue to clear, and two jumps out would be done a lot more often. The timer before a second jump is allowed could be increased to help limit the rapid movement problem, but currently capitals are hard to use to fight within an entire region (let alone going to the next region over) because fatigue builds up so fast.

Now recruiting: http://dogfacedesign.com/index.php/Recruiting-Posters/recruiting-poster-patr3

159Pinky
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#149 - 2015-09-12 07:33:12 UTC
Casandra Elise McIntire wrote:
Ravcharas wrote:
159Pinky wrote:
So, now that all gates will be bubbled to **** to prevent entosis. When will you start add a limited timer for bubbles to be in space? SO ppl at least have to put an effort in to keeping their entrances bubbled

interdiction nullifier subsystems m8


That would mean flying a T3, which some groups are unwilling to risk. Some groups, feel that trolling in interceptors are the only option they have to ensure positive KB stats and receive funding for said trolling.


Or some groups feel, that if they bring this the other side will just drop more and more ships. Right now they already drop supers and titans on bomber and cormorrant fleet. Why on earth would I bring a T3 entosis ship?
Aiyshimin
Descendant Command
#150 - 2015-09-12 07:39:28 UTC
Terrible, poorly considered changes that only cater to the whiny minority. Why give jump fatigue immunity to people who dont even play the game, but only to log in when pinged to drop in a 100% risk free situation?

Kinis Deren
Mosquito Squadron
WE FOWM W0LTA
#151 - 2015-09-12 07:58:10 UTC
Disappointed with the sov changes Team 5-0 have come up with. A quick glance through this very thread clearly reveals who this will benefit. I guess sov null will remain safer than low sec for the average capsuleer and we'll be back to blue donuts, renter space and wastelands by winter.

You came so close CCP to making sov null an active combat zone but now it will quickly return to ISK generation for the blobs and a meaningless once a year orchestrated 4000 man fight.
Kinis Deren
Mosquito Squadron
WE FOWM W0LTA
#152 - 2015-09-12 08:15:59 UTC
Captain StringfellowHawk wrote:
159Pinky wrote:
So, now that all gates will be bubbled to **** to prevent entosis. When will you start add a limited timer for bubbles to be in space? SO ppl at least have to put an effort in to keeping their entrances bubbled


When they put a limit on cloaks so you have to at least put in an effort to be at the keyboard for your alts.


Oh will that be implemented at the same time they netf your 40k + meatshield?

HTFU goonie & pay attention to local & intel channels and you'll be safer than in hi sec vOv
gascanu
Bearing Srl.
#153 - 2015-09-12 08:25:28 UTC
Quote:
It will no longer be possible to online Entosis Links on Interceptors


oh look, it only took CCP 3+ months to come to the same conclusion playerbase reached in the first few days of testing: trollceptors are BAD

but yea, we know nothing you guys know better, ask for feedback and then promptly ignore it till subscription numbers go down, then rebalance "stuff"... and on and on going in circles...

on the other issue, while reducing the fatigue to some more playish lvl is good, you are again missing the mark, buffing cap range, at least on carriers/rorq, coupled with some range related progresive fatigue, will be a much better solution for small aliances/corps/individual players moving caps around.
5 lys is way to short, but yea, keep living the dream... Ugh
Asuka Solo
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#154 - 2015-09-12 08:30:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Asuka Solo
Finally.

Death to trollceptors online.

Also I highly approve of the jump fatigue changes. + 10 interwebz.

Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!

Alekseyev Karrde
Noir.
The Network.
#155 - 2015-09-12 10:09:29 UTC
Kimimaro Yoga wrote:
currently capitals are hard to use to fight within an entire region (let alone going to the next region over) because fatigue builds up so fast.

That's supposed to be the entire point.

Welcome to the conversation bro ;)

Alek the Kidnapper, Hero of the CSM

Ben Ishikela
#156 - 2015-09-12 10:43:03 UTC
So what about removing the "nullified" feature from interceptors instead? (and give it to shuttles. as i find it stupid as an engineer to not implement a nullification drive into ships that do not suffer from any drawbacks.)

Ideas are like Seeds. I'd chop fullgrown trees to start a fire.

Kimimaro Yoga
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#157 - 2015-09-12 11:07:39 UTC
Alekseyev Karrde wrote:
Kimimaro Yoga wrote:
currently capitals are hard to use to fight within an entire region (let alone going to the next region over) because fatigue builds up so fast.

That's supposed to be the entire point.

Welcome to the conversation bro ;)


Well yanno, except for the part during the Jump fatigue roundtable where a member of CCP (Larrikin?) stated that capitals should be able to fight within a region to a region and a half. I was trying to point out that that is not the case, now it's rare to use capitals to cover more than a 10LY distance. This is way smaller than most regions. If CCP wishes a two jump out, two jump back, 3 hour op to be practical, then the fatigue multiplier needs to be lowered a bit.

Also I am less concerned with the specific numbers per se than the fact that there appears to be a mismatch between what CCP thinks is practical under the current system, and what players are generally willing to do given the risks of the current system. Right now people are told that if they have any fatigue at all, don't even bother showing up for a fleet. Please do not participate if you are contaminated, go play something else instead.
http://i.imgur.com/sQjPUCi.jpg
A fairly small reduction in the multiplier would significantly alleviate the disincentive of having even a "little" fatigue, while making no real difference to longer-distance travel.

Now recruiting: http://dogfacedesign.com/index.php/Recruiting-Posters/recruiting-poster-patr3

Querns
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#158 - 2015-09-12 12:16:56 UTC
Kinis Deren wrote:
Disappointed with the sov changes Team 5-0 have come up with. A quick glance through this very thread clearly reveals who this will benefit. I guess sov null will remain safer than low sec for the average capsuleer and we'll be back to blue donuts, renter space and wastelands by winter.

You came so close CCP to making sov null an active combat zone but now it will quickly return to ISK generation for the blobs and a meaningless once a year orchestrated 4000 man fight.

I, too, make vague apocalyptic statements with no effort spent towards linking effect to cause.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

Querns
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#159 - 2015-09-12 12:18:34 UTC
Aiyshimin wrote:
Terrible, poorly considered changes that only cater to the whiny minority. Why give jump fatigue immunity to people who dont even play the game, but only to log in when pinged to drop in a 100% risk free situation?


How is a reduction to the maximum accumulated jump fatigue immunity? It's still faster to wait 50 minutes after each jump over the long haul.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

Querns
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#160 - 2015-09-12 12:24:20 UTC
159Pinky wrote:
Casandra Elise McIntire wrote:
Ravcharas wrote:
159Pinky wrote:
So, now that all gates will be bubbled to **** to prevent entosis. When will you start add a limited timer for bubbles to be in space? SO ppl at least have to put an effort in to keeping their entrances bubbled

interdiction nullifier subsystems m8


That would mean flying a T3, which some groups are unwilling to risk. Some groups, feel that trolling in interceptors are the only option they have to ensure positive KB stats and receive funding for said trolling.


Or some groups feel, that if they bring this the other side will just drop more and more ships. Right now they already drop supers and titans on bomber and cormorrant fleet. Why on earth would I bring a T3 entosis ship?

You're posting under a very strange delusion.

The Imperium doesn't scale its response to the amount of isk on the field. We bring the maximum suppressive force, every time. The idea is that you shouldn't attack our sovereignty, and we will roll up the largest newspaper we can at any given time and hit you in the nose with it until you stop moving.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.