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Decline in numbers... starting to turn into RAPID!!!

First post
Author
Anslo
Scope Works
#1741 - 2015-09-10 19:18:56 UTC
Sugar Smacks wrote:
CCP acknowledges most of their playerbase is solo highsec mission runners or whatever.

So where is the added content for these people?

There is none because the majority of devs don't want their playerbase doing this, so they constantly add content outside this area of entertainment and give it to the minor playerbase doing things they find appropriate.

This is actually what will cause the demise of this game, out of touch devs not doing the most obvious job of giving the paying customer more. Instead its focused on the minority they think "plays the game the way they like it".

Its particularly sickening to watch this many stupid computer programmers ruin such a good game.

Who put this guy in charge? Knows his community then doesn't do anything for them?
Who would believe that's a good career decision?

Its almost like they gave up so they can make people think they are "hard", im sure your hard guy living in Iceland.

Reality is less people for obvious reasons, which will lead to your unemployment at a time you will not want to be unemployed.
But maybe you should be, when you ignore your job, you don't deserve one.

2edgy4me

God forbid they try to add and diversify the game instead of add new missions. How dare they try to make new stuff to attract people to other parts of the game that might be a little fun.

THE.

HORROR.

Scrub.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#1742 - 2015-09-10 19:20:30 UTC
Jegrey Dozer wrote:
My argument is under using the assumption that new players are not you and me who know lvl IV - lvl V isn't a necessity.
…but that's just assumption and perception, not how the system actually works. The curve is not linear. Arguing for a change based on the notion that it is is a nonsensical argument since the notion is flat out wrong.

Again, the solution is teaching, not mechanical change.

Quote:
They haven't? I was under the impression that they have. I recall a conversation some corpmates were having about how the training time for Battleship V used to be several months and now it's just ~1 month.
That's just a case of “barefoot in the snow, uphill”. Maybe in the really really olden days, if they picked an absolutely horrible race/bloodline/ancestry combo and did absolutely nothing to their stats, but that's on them, not the system.

When people talk about how you can train faster, what they're referring to are the options available to match your attributes to your skills: attribute remaps, implants, EveMon optimisation, as opposed to the old ways of picking a character background at (semi-)random, being screwed on the attributes, and having to train the hideously idiotic learning skills to really compensate for that unfortunate error. And of course, the best combo right now actually ends up with 72 SP less per hour than what was possible before the learning skill removal.

Quote:
This is why I brought up previous training time reductions. If up until now we are lead to believe that EvE has only been growing and just recently subs have been dropping. That means we have some evidence that reducing training times at worst didn't effect sub numbers and at best helped increase them.
Eh… no. Not only are those all pretty spurious claims, but the timing is such that, if the supposed training time reduction had any effect, it would be to reduce the number of subs. First, the changes happened that people see as affecting training speed (most notably in early 2009 and late 2010), and then subs started dropping (a first wave in 2011, a second one in 2013).

Quote:
If there really wasn't any reduction, then my proposal is the same opinion piece, but without concrete evidence.
Fair enough. Blink
Jegrey Dozer
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1743 - 2015-09-10 19:41:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Jegrey Dozer
Tippia wrote:
…but that's just assumption and perception, not how the system actually works. The curve is not linear. Arguing for a change based on the notion that it is is a nonsensical argument since the notion is flat out wrong.



The entire curve, you are correct, is not linear. However, a small portion of it in the very beginning can be roughly linear. That's what I am addressing. If the amount of time it takes for that linear curve to flatten takes too long, that's when I believe players leave.

Do I have evidence? Not really. But I do have the experience of 4 of my close gaming friends who all explained to me that they are not willing to spend the money or the time to train for so long. Even after my explanations of 100% profficiency =/= being good.

I would like to see CCP actually test and see if people are more likely to subscribe if the training time was lower or higher. Then maybe we can find an equilibrium training period where we feel is long enough for new players to go through the motions of training up without giving them everything all at once.

Edit: At this point I have pretty much exhausted all of my ideas. So yea, I guess I am open to different solutions that don't resemble mine. I am just highly skeptical of their efficacy. Ultimately, I think we can all agree on that we need more ads to attract new players lol.
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#1744 - 2015-09-10 20:05:25 UTC
Actually CCP has experimented with different training times. Well, they have sped it up at the beginning. Removal of learning skills meant you trained faster right off, and did not have to make the devils choice between faster later, or some skills now. They also doubled the training speed for new players.

What was the effect? I don't know, but it does not seem like it resulted in a huge influx of new players.

Current numbers: the concurrent user value, averaged over a week, has been around 20,000 for about two months now. Eve is not shrinking, or growing.

Know a Frozen fan? Check this out

Frozen fanfiction

Market McSelling Alt
Doomheim
#1745 - 2015-09-10 20:24:55 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Market McSelling Alt wrote:
Markus Reese wrote:
Market McSelling Alt wrote:
Hint: It might be why they don't stay, they are treated as second class citizens.


You take it as arrogant, I take it as truth as a person who actually understands chess and the importance of a pawn. In chess, a pawn and careful usage of them is extremely vital. They cannot do much. Just move up short steps, only forward. Combat is limited to a forwards sidestep slice. But they hold the line and keep the enemy at bay.

That is what it is. The new players can fill a simple, and low cost, expendable role, but they are absolutely vital to holding the front. Us veterans should be just giving them piles of ships.

This is how I used to teach counter PvP to industry corporations to counter Highsec wars.

I gave em skills, less than 24 hours training required and ships with fittings. I taught them how to set up overview to prevent losing pods. I then said get out there and do this so us veterans can take out the war dec targets. They will die, but we got the ships covered. Result is we never lost a highsec war back in the day cause I had my newbs. They loved it, I loved it.

My first week in the game, I was in an ecm tackle griffin. I got popped, I didn't care cause I held up a target long enough for corpies to gain control. That win was mine. I didn't do most damage, I didn't get final blow, but wouldn't have died if not for that little griffin.

I never said fodder. I said a pawn. Key to holding the front.

Edit: And remember reason I used it. Chess and Checkers are played on the same field. Eve currently plays like checkers. Everybody is the same. Fights the same, moves the same. One guy can be king and then just steals the whole show. Cannot do anything about it.


Yeah, I play chess too. With inanimate objects.

The arrogance here is you think the game, game board and the pieces are all yours.

Again, some people won't sign up if they are told they can only ever be pawns. Some won't stay if they realize they are only ever being used as pawns, and in the end:

You don't get to be the Omnipotent one deciding who does what and where. Again, a very arrogant vet mentality.

You want truth? You can't handle the truth.

And you certainly didn't find it and put it in your post.



The Urine to Cherrios ratio of the above post has exceeded standard cereal bowl tolerance.


Leave it to you to have a standard for Urine in your Cherrios... or to be eating Cherrios at all.

CCP Quant: Of all those who logon in Eve, 1.5% do Incursions, 13.8% PVP and 19.2% run Missions while 22.4% mine.

40.7% Join a fleet. The idea that Eve is a PVP game is false, the social fabric is in Missions and Mining.

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#1746 - 2015-09-10 20:29:46 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
What was the effect? I don't know, but it does not seem like it resulted in a huge influx of new players.
The main difference is that you don't start hour 1, day 1, faced with choices you don't understand but which make more and more difference as time goes by.

If I were to guess, I'd say that it makes less difference for the new player than for the year-old one since they're not looking back at that largely uninformed choice and kicking themselves over how they chose wrong. Granted, the learning skills were hella-boring during the newbie stage and outright begged players not to log in, but on the other hand, at that stage it still looked to the newbie like you had a choice since the repercussions hadn't dawned on them yet.
Dersen Lowery
The Scope
#1747 - 2015-09-10 20:31:52 UTC
Tippia wrote:
If I were to guess, I'd say that it makes less difference for the new player than for the year-old one since they're not looking back at that largely uninformed choice and kicking themselves over how they chose wrong. Granted, the learning skills were hella-boring during the newbie stage and outright begged players not to log in, but on the other hand, at that stage it still looked to the newbie like you had a choice since the repercussions hadn't dawned on them yet.


^^

I wasn't around for learning skills, but otherwise I remember this well.

Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.

I voted in CSM X!

Markus Reese
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1748 - 2015-09-10 20:32:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Markus Reese
Jenn aSide wrote:
Market McSelling Alt wrote:


Yeah, I play chess too. With inanimate objects.

The arrogance here is you think the game, game board and the pieces are all yours.

Again, some people won't sign up if they are told they can only ever be pawns. Some won't stay if they realize they are only ever being used as pawns, and in the end:

You don't get to be the Omnipotent one deciding who does what and where. Again, a very arrogant vet mentality.

You want truth? You can't handle the truth.

And you certainly didn't find it and put it in your post.



The Urine to Cherrios ratio of the above post has exceeded standard cereal bowl tolerance.


I do not think I have heard such an... interesting analogy before...

I mean, doesn't that define how eve is now? Do all the members of the swarm, PL, etc have a round table and discuss what is the next move? No. There is the Alliance leaders, they decide the plan, they call CTA and they give orders that all under their command follow. Right now, everybody fly one generic cookie cutter checkers piece. Trollceptor to titans fleet, is one generic, and only variation is if you cannot fly that fit.

So I say, lets make eve so anybody can be a part of a fleet and all have relevance.

Pawn: The word translates back to mean "Foot Soldier". So absolutely. If I ran a big corp and wanted to wage big war, I will welcome in new players and they will know they are vital foot soldiers. You are in a T1 ship that is only sensor dampening? Good! You fifty dampen those logi ships, spread em out and slow down their lock time. You will die, but be reimbursed greater isk than if you just day hiding in a station or doing pve as a newb.

I don't get to decide, the newbs decide. If this offer existed, I am pretty sure newbs would be bowing and worshiping. I don't see arrogance, I see the ability in what a brand new player can do! 1m isk of frigates to keep reds at bay for a few minutes?

THAT! is a good fight!

To quote Lfod Shi

The ratting itself is PvE. Getting away with it is PvP.

Boom Laison
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1749 - 2015-09-11 07:10:04 UTC
erg cz wrote:
1. Decline in numbers of online players does not mean decline in number of fights. High PLEX price simply switched off more alt accounts, than multy boxers hammer itself.

2. EvE is PVP game? Yes, but it is the worst MMO PvP game currently on the market. So newbies go away pretty quick.
2.1. Eve solo PvP means longer waiting time, tens of minutes of boredrom before you get fight . In extreme cases even hours of browsing empty null till you find equal or weaker opponent for you SOLO fight.
2.2. Eve team PvP mean longer waiting time till your team is ready and aligned and enemy team is ready and aligned or someone happens to run into your lovely gank. Wait, wait, wait...
2.3. Apart from FW you have no way to ensure any kind of fair fight. It is very unlikely to fight T3 cruiser with your destroyer and win. Plenty of other MMO offer some form of match making.

3. EvE is not for free. War thunder, Wargaming etc... offer almost instant PvP with good matchmaking for free.

4. EvE really sucks in advertising. World of tanks jumps on you from TV, EvE is not visible even in google ads.

5. With all great potential of perfect Sci-fi world EvE PvE conent is repetitive and ... let say limited. What is the problem of adding more L4 missions? COSMOS? Epic archs? Stats shows, that most newbie players try PvE before PvP and try it hard. So make PvE interesting for them so they stay and get involved into team PvP later on.

Cause EvE is good in team PvP.


Exactly this!
Ferrucio Surge
The Bag Cartel
#1750 - 2015-09-11 08:25:44 UTC
I mean... I very much like the PVE aspect of the game, and I hope it doesn't go away. But I also understand the value of PVP and trying new things. I would rather not this game become either pure PVP or pure PVE. also, considering how much CCP seems to pay attention to feedback, I highly doubt they're THAT out of touch, nor wouldd I be that upset just because my favourite aspect of the game isn't getting as much attention currently.
xxxTRUSTxxx
Galactic Rangers
#1751 - 2015-09-11 09:24:15 UTC
Boom Laison wrote:


1. Decline in numbers of online players does not mean decline in number of fights. High PLEX price simply switched off more alt accounts, than multy boxers hammer itself.



there's some truth in this for sure, but i wouldn't say this alone accounts for new people not sticking.

Boom Laison wrote:


2. EvE is PVP game? Yes, but it is the worst MMO PvP game currently on the market. So newbies go away pretty quick.
2.1. Eve solo PvP means longer waiting time, tens of minutes of boredrom before you get fight . In extreme cases even hours of browsing empty null till you find equal or weaker opponent for you SOLO fight.
2.2. Eve team PvP mean longer waiting time till your team is ready and aligned and enemy team is ready and aligned or someone happens to run into your lovely gank. Wait, wait, wait...
2.3. Apart from FW you have no way to ensure any kind of fair fight. It is very unlikely to fight T3 cruiser with your destroyer and win. Plenty of other MMO offer some form of match making.



EVE is not the worst PVP game on the market. silly statement.

solo PVP ? come play the biggest single universe and fight alone? EVE is a team player game, i get some solo is a sweet thing but don't expect it on tap.

Team PVP is always effected by your slowest in the group. but this one depends totally on how many members you have to choose from, bigger alliance would mean shorter times to prep and get moving. well managed groups don't take long to get on the field.

ensure a fair fight??? what nonsense is this??? oh you want an arena where you can 1 v 1 people in the same class ship.
don't think that would go down well with the general population.

Boom Laison wrote:


3. EvE is not for free. War thunder, Wargaming etc... offer almost instant PvP with good matchmaking for free.



again with the why isnt' EVE free bullshite, EVE is not modeled on a free to play system, it can't be done. look it up, it's been discussed in the past. but warthunder and good matchmaking system,, lmfao,, you're joking right??
planes that are op as feck, you have no choice who you get to play with unless you pay,, oh hang on,, was it not free?
to even compare EVE to them piles of shite,, i just lol.

Boom Laison wrote:


4. EvE really sucks in advertising. World of tanks jumps on you from TV, EvE is not visible even in google ads.



agree on the no TV adverts,, but google ads,, you do know that google ads only show you ads based off your browsing history yea? so you're not seeing ads for EVE on google because you're searching for other stuff Roll non EVE Roll i wonder what ads it shows you Roll

Boom Laison wrote:


5. With all great potential of perfect Sci-fi world EvE PvE conent is repetitive and ... let say limited. What is the problem of adding more L4 missions? COSMOS? Epic archs? Stats shows, that most newbie players try PvE before PvP and try it hard. So make PvE interesting for them so they stay and get involved into team PvP later on.

Cause EvE is good in team PvP.



you must not be playing long, it's not so long ago that all we had was missions, even doing them would take you a few months to tire of them. these days there's shtie tons of PVE content. there is no way a player would get through it all within a year and be bored stupid from them.
i'll tell you what drives people away,, negative attitudes that lead people to believe they can never catch up with the big boys in EVE. the EVE is going to die brigade, you shites are the bad apples we don't need here, last thing new guys need to read and hear is it's all going south, no point sticking around if it's gonna die. i wish these people would stop playing EVE or,,,,,
shut up! shutting up could work too.




Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
#1752 - 2015-09-11 09:45:36 UTC
Bit of statistics at start:
eve status monitor
accounts density

So, Rubicon was released 2013/2014. Since then, EvE started to losing players. After multiboxing changing, 2014/2015, it continue. Accounts density shows that most of players have 1 or 2 accounts. 10k "players" since 2014/2015?

What do we have in those 2 years? warp changes, industry and its UI changing, jump drives changes, new sov introduction, burner missions, ghost sites, sleepers sites, new hulls, many minor tweaks etc. Yet game become unplayable for some part of community. Why? Most of them bring some new content, improve quality or was an attempt to shake up part of cluster.

Maybe some of the changes, that were looking good at the start, like warp changes, brought more cons than pros to the game. Even CCP changed command ship warp speed lately. Maybe ppl want to play with their BS instead watching them waaaaarping and aaaaligning. It has nothing to do with insta gratification. I mean warp changes looks good when you think about it, small ships warp faster bigger slower, makes perfect sense, but we not playing games for perfect sense but to be entertained (in a pixel world with asteroid magically reappers after 24h). Warp speed rigs are not the answer here, they suppose to be an option not necessity.

CSM summit starting on monday. I hope minutes will be online fast.



"I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville

Aaron Krux
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#1753 - 2015-09-11 11:16:44 UTC
What happened to my badass energy turret sounds from a couple years ago? Ugh
Mir Jana
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#1754 - 2015-09-11 12:28:35 UTC
Ok, logged in and shocked!

11892 players online :)

Average in the last 12 months for this time is around 17k
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#1755 - 2015-09-11 12:43:43 UTC
Jeremiah Saken wrote:
Bit of statistics at start:
eve status monitor
accounts density

So, Rubicon was released 2013/2014. Since then, EvE started to losing players. After multiboxing changing, 2014/2015, it continue. Accounts density shows that most of players have 1 or 2 accounts. 10k "players" since 2014/2015?

What do we have in those 2 years? warp changes, industry and its UI changing, jump drives changes, new sov introduction, burner missions, ghost sites, sleepers sites, new hulls, many minor tweaks etc. Yet game become unplayable for some part of community. Why? Most of them bring some new content, improve quality or was an attempt to shake up part of cluster.

Maybe some of the changes, that were looking good at the start, like warp changes, brought more cons than pros to the game. Even CCP changed command ship warp speed lately. Maybe ppl want to play with their BS instead watching them waaaaarping and aaaaligning. It has nothing to do with insta gratification. I mean warp changes looks good when you think about it, small ships warp faster bigger slower, makes perfect sense, but we not playing games for perfect sense but to be entertained (in a pixel world with asteroid magically reappers after 24h). Warp speed rigs are not the answer here, they suppose to be an option not necessity.

CSM summit starting on monday. I hope minutes will be online fast.
Personally, I think a lot of it is less to do with what the content is and more to do with the release cycle changes. Nothing is really as big these days as expansions were. Even big sweeping changes like citadels will be a bit "meh" because they are being broken down and released in chunks. Seeing mass marketing about a big release with massive changes really brings in players. Seeing a couple of dev blogs every few weeks about a little change is great for existing players, but does little outside of that.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Tauren Tom
Order of the Silver Dragons
Silver Dragonz
#1756 - 2015-09-11 15:47:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Tauren Tom
The simplest possible answer is a failure to follow through. Regardless of whether you've made the right or wrong decision, follow through!

The Summer of Rage (2011) Walking in Stations started the massive exodus of pissed players. Now we just find new reasons to be pissed as more ideas are slammed on the notice board and never followed to completion.

What happened to the on going incursions? Where's all those FW tweaks that were supposed to liven up the game? Oh look... you worked on jump drives, but you stopped halfway AGAIN because of player backlash. Now we're stuck with half done mechanics and little if any real content contribution.

Complaint and Action threads are snipped daily whenever they reference the fact that there is a failure to follow through. Dev's and GM's get slammed for their lack of follow through. Negativity is counter productive to the methods of gaining players and increasing your overall income, but ya know what? That negativity is us telling you that we're still playing. We're taking the time to spend our money and TELL you that something is wrong. Things haven't been finished and we need someone to hang the blame on. Someone to universally hate and see as the person responsible for this. Right now, that has become Fozzie. Because that's who you've left us with. Clearly things aren't going to the right place because nothing is happening and the few ISD and GM's/Dev's brave enough to comment on these firestack posts don't wait for returned commentary to whether they're doing something or not.

Sometimes we're brushed off with "next expansion" or "we plan to look into this later". Do us a favor and take the flak so that we know you care to hear our opinions. Right now, we all feel brushed off and ignored. You've got your niche market of PvPer's and roamers. I'll admit, I do like PvP and roaming, but I also like relaxing in high sec mining and doing brainless missions and NPC grinds. But it gets boring and annoying when you've been promised change and new content only to find that it's NOT IN YOUR REGION or Not for High Sec Carebears.

That is all.
In the grand scheme of things... You're all pubbies. So HTFU.   "It's 106 miles to Chicago, we got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark... and we're wearing sunglasses." - Elwood Blues
Market McSelling Alt
Doomheim
#1757 - 2015-09-11 16:16:16 UTC
Tauren Tom wrote:
The simplest possible answer is a failure to follow through. Regardless of whether you've made the right or wrong decision, follow through!

That is all.



You might be on to something.

How many broken promises has CCP made. How many ideas were discarded by the wayside simply because the Dev working on them isn't around anymore. There must have been no cross-conceptual discussion among staff because everything promised, or started to be implemented was tossed aside. Things from PVP changes, new ships classes, Null, FW, Mission AI changes, everything was either aborted or half implemented.

6 week cycle times for patches are exacerbating this as it allows CCP to stretch implementation out over multiple expansions, only to never fully implement them or do so in a half hearted manner.

CCP Quant: Of all those who logon in Eve, 1.5% do Incursions, 13.8% PVP and 19.2% run Missions while 22.4% mine.

40.7% Join a fleet. The idea that Eve is a PVP game is false, the social fabric is in Missions and Mining.

Adamai
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1758 - 2015-09-11 20:43:54 UTC
fact of the matter is that not many people are interested in spaceship games.. especially after all the spreadsheet negative publicity the games received over the years. if ccp want the game to flourish for another 10 years they will need to reinvent the wheel... and they need to do it with null sec. i know they have tried to alter it but again fact remains nothing has changed.. the game is still controlled and run by power blocks ... and while CCP continue to support these huge blocks of power eve wont be able to flourish.. as it needs to. too few players are dictating over the mass players in eve.. they take space with hope of ever being able to secure it long term them selves or maintain it them selves so they take it and rent it out to others for stupid amounts of money !!! and while this short cut to null option is on the table to new and useless alliances alike! null will always be controlled by the power blocks dictating to others.... just try to imagine creating your own 600 -1200 member alliance and wanting to live in null.. sure your all vets when it comes to pvp and you have plenty of dreads and carriers.. ! so you go and attempt to take a system in null .. bare in mind for a 1200 strong alliance your going to need at least an entire region so your guys can operate and play comfortably! the problem stars when the defenders come in.. and its around 2000+ consisting of several alliances in the form of a coalition.. the outcome is obvious.. the capable 1200 whop deserve to live in null and can fight off and defend against other alliances ends up getting swamped by huge fleets almost doubling their number.. its a basic math game.. if you bring 2000 battles versus 1200 battle ships the larger number is going to win. sure you could try to divide and conquer! but 2000 split is still more than 1200 split.. so much so that they can double your fleet on all fronts.. they could even triple your fleet and use a smaller fleet to match whats left of your fleet and still thrash you silly.. now bare in mind how many people where evolved in the last major null sec battle.. that was a battle between two massive coalitions.. unless your in those coalitions you do not stand a chance and trying to form a similar sized coalition is near on impossible as most corps and alliances just flock to the side of the big entities because its easier and safer and requires little effort to get established null sec access.

I'm not bitter but i am disappointed the game is in this state. what happened to the days where every one wanted to murder goons or remove bob from eve.. now it seems every one wants to be on a certain team.

its disheartening for new and upcoming players wanting to build their own corp and alliance and then try to get some null sec space.. its now only possible if you go live in that hell hole known as npc null or you rent from another alliance which is a member of a coalition or you join that alliance to get the access...

I am primarily a ceo and have enjoyed building a corp and an alliance but i lost my heart for the game when it became apparent that the only way to get hold of some null space was to get on some one else s train and ride with them and give up hope on your own or settle for empire life.. and no living in low sec does not cut it.. ive spent the last 2 years living in low sec.. even attempted to build a corp in low sec which again was overwhelmed by larger entities.. you take 30 into the battle they bring 60! and so on.. you move your guys into an area with hopes of making it a home and some one moves in on mass and swamps you in the system and you eventually have to move on.

again im not wining im just attempting to point out the issues with the game that in my opinion is having a direct effect on population. hell it caused me to give up trying.. at my peak i ran a 600 man alliance and it was by no means enough to control a low sec system let alone take space in null..

i don't know how ccp would break up these coalitions or cause them to splinter back into individual alliances so the game became interesting again. perhaps removing the ability to jump in capitals all together might fix it.. force all ships through star gates. maybe remove titans and super carriers and bump up the construction needs of dreads and carriers so less of them are in use and more expensive.

Or introduce fuel to all ships. and each race using a different fuel source that can only be refined in certain areas of eve like near specific factions .. so amaarr ships would need one type of fuel and its only available in a few locations in eve. so the alliance in question would have to think long and hard which type of players the recruit based on their ships and the fuel they require. this alone would break coalitions up as the individual player would have to go and be near the fuel sources for their ships. or retrain into other factions ships.

One thing i do know is null sec is a playground for just a handful of players.. every one else out their are just eating out of their hands and it needs fixing.. their is no politics between coalitions and alliances.. its just coalition telling alliance where they can go and what they can do and for how much each week or month. it really needs fixing!!
Lan Wang
Princess Aiko Hold My Hand
Safety. Net
#1759 - 2015-09-11 20:46:33 UTC
more to eve than sov, small gang is where its at

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*

Raffael Ramirez
Alcohol Fuelled
#1760 - 2015-09-11 21:55:23 UTC
Market McSelling Alt wrote:
Tauren Tom wrote:
The simplest possible answer is a failure to follow through. Regardless of whether you've made the right or wrong decision, follow through!

That is all.



You might be on to something.

How many broken promises has CCP made. How many ideas were discarded by the wayside simply because the Dev working on them isn't around anymore. There must have been no cross-conceptual discussion among staff because everything promised, or started to be implemented was tossed aside. Things from PVP changes, new ships classes, Null, FW, Mission AI changes, everything was either aborted or half implemented.

6 week cycle times for patches are exacerbating this as it allows CCP to stretch implementation out over multiple expansions, only to never fully implement them or do so in a half hearted manner.


I do agree with the basic message of finish what you started, but I would go one step further.

EVE attracts a lot of play styles and since the whole Jita thing (and other assorted misadventures) CCP seem to have taken a step back. So as soon as someones play style is in danger they throw a tantrum on the forums or in game and try to blackmail CCP into changing direction again.

So decisions that would be good for long term EVE health are potentially not implemented due to blackmail rage quitters.
I personally would like to see CCP to go back to THEIR original vision of EVE and start working towards it again ( if anyone is still left at CCP who remembers what it was about). It used to be a niche game , they tried to go mainstream - a lot of players from the "game that shall not be named" joined up at some point - then left again and now EVE is apparently dying.

I see EVE as a work in progress - so if something is broken that really hinders me to play the game in a meaningful way I check back in a year or two and it probably has changed 3 times over.

Also guys , give them a break - there is no right and wrong decisions (unless it is F2P or P2W) it will affect everyone's play style differently - one patch you win , one patch you loose- feedback is important but the overall eve health comes first to your particular style of eve. They just try different things to see what brings the intended effect and is the least abuse able system. I dont think you can stress test the unlimited ingenuity of eve players to find loopholes and abuse game mechanics in very creative ways.

Maybe if the devs would be more active in the F&I threats and explain (devblog?) why some feedback wasn't implemented or ideas discarded that might appease the rabble a little after all didn't they commit to be more communicative?