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Agreed on the fraud part. However the money does not need to available as a flash. There could be delay on payment or the payment could also be paid on several parts.

Vasama

My bitter guess would be that the devs responsible for this "new structures" idea dont even understand what you are talking about or why you are talking about it ...

true....

But if I get going about logic in the context of this citadel/entosis crap I have to vomit blood a lot earlier:

Each of those mighty "citadels" that cost multitudes of billons of isk HAS A VIRTUAL USB CABLE DANGLING out at its lower end THAT ALLOWS TO CONNECT AND TAKE OVER THE SYSTEM !

Surely some masterpiece of CCP engineering .... every little frigate can take over / destroy my fortress if I am not at home and it has just half an hour to connect to that plug. Yeah, thats how security will work according to CCP in the future to come.

To counter the obvious effects of this illogical nonsense CCP had to total artificial and randomly bring in those "vulnerability windows". Sorry I cant even make up a mock logic explanation for that kind of bullshyt...... It totally restricts player (attacker) freedom in the most artificial and random way. Sandbox?? Dont make me laugh.

Our current wh POS can be attacked 24/7 (as just happend last week) - in that way it offers content and entertainment to others at their discretion and timeschedule, the new "citadels" will just be an annoyance for everyone.

Ah, yes - and an insult to above mentioned logic !

In the killmail, rather than generating a very long list of items could you just put the total ISK destroyed? And also add the extra ISK lost due to impounds? People would be happy to see the total ISK damage they inflicted to their enemies

Ships boarded and clones (implants) are also destroyed with the citadel. And people having to pay, let's say XXX tax to get their things back, is isk that is no longer in their wallets.

Active ship and clone is being reconsidered, you might want to keep up with Devs latest attempts to make this proposal look like more than what it actually is.

Any killmail generated should never include payments made to CCP to get stuff back. You did not kill anything, you did not generate any loss, the payment is automatically generated by a contrived mechanic, which knowing Devs will not be balanced and players will end up out of pocket The only loss that was generated was the structure, done by 1 player with a magic wand, therefore it must be done solo with no assistance what so ever for a killmail to be generated.
You really think 100+ guys are going to turn out so YOU can get a killmail?
(like the new sov, ccp have committed to something they have not really thought through - in its current guise, it has the potential to see player numbers decrease faster than ever seen before)
NPC stations are likely to end up so crowded it just ends up becoming a gaming industry joke.

Lose the active ship + clone + cost to retrieve assets + cost of Citadel = Eve end game.
Devs have stated Citadels will cost more than an outpost and are making them destructible - Who will be the ONLY groups in the game able to afford to lose a Citadel - Would it be the same groups who are not going to be at risk of losing one, or will it be the average alliance just making ends meet and getting by.



No-one but the permanently invulnerable Imperium will ever log off in a Citadel.
Few will ever keep more than exactly what they need in a Citadel.

Many will just quit, either nulsec or Eve once destructible Citadels impact their game play in a negative way. CCP want to continue down the line of "how few subscriptions can we survive with" Citadels are another step in the right direction.



No killmail should ever be generated if everyone involved with the kill is not listed as having participated. Can't do that with magic sov lasers - Why there are no killmails for the most prized structures in the game anymore. (a big yellow flash as the TCU/iHub explodes magically after being hit with a sov wand, is not engaging, fun game play for all involved - it won't be when Citadels magically explode either)


CCP - beaking eve, one patch at a time.

I recently listened to the structure blog and sounding board and got to admit it distrubed me a little.
I originally thougt w-space was the last Bastion for small groups of players.
The last place where you are able to build your sandcastle together with a handful of friends not needing raw numbers going in the hundreds and above to be able to defend what you own.

But apparently this was a misconception of mine and most likely a lot of other players living in wormholespace – a missconception which, i´m now sure of, will be corrected by the larger w-space entities after those citadels are introduced.

Then what stopped them before from evicting every one smaller than themselves was the huge effort in time and players to evict someone by destroying their POS (a painstaking and boring endeavor) and furthermore there was in most cases no real financial incentive to do so, because most of those who recognized their attempt to defend theirselves as a hopeless cause were at least able to deny the attacker most of the reward in form of dropped assets.
But since that is gonna change,

by introducing assets locks after the citadel is reinforced
lowering the threshold for an attack considerably
pointing out that citadel are forcemultipliers – a fact that does nothing for small corps since you don´t have a force to multiplied (what is true for every low class w-space corp)
no docking while pointed (resulting in a lot of defensive situation that translate in do or die – and die means you get podded ... we know what that means in w-space)

the majority of w-space community seems to pursue this goal, i doubt that there will be any small corp left after a few months.
They either got kicked out or decided to leave themselves after witnessing others in the dozens being kicked out.
What in my opinion will be a more than reasonable decision, since you have no hope of defending yourself as a C3 (usally consisting of about 3-5 players) or a C1 (consisting of 1-2 players) against entities occupying higher class wormholes.

I ask you what player in their right mind would choose to live here, when no such corp is gonna be able to defend theirselves against such attacks ? When your assets everywhere else in the game are, compared to this, well protected and given the small income differences to a null ratting system. Why would i choose to live here ?

What wormhole space needs to attract players and therefore results in an increase of ships in space is an incentive to life here.
And when the prospect of the riches isn´t enough (what it isn´t when you compare the risk vs reward ratio of citadels in its current proposition offered to us) there either needs to be something else to justify this or we should accept the fact that w-space is also in need of asset protection and push for this.
Then in my opinion, if we as a community fail to do this,
when assest safety everywhere else is guaranteed w-space is becoming the new dominion nullsec.
Where small entites can only exist if they are allowed to do so by the large entites.
Since steamrolling them out is a matter of small effort.
I´ dont know about you, but that´s not for what i signed up for when i came into w-space.
And im not sure if i will be able to tolerate this.

You talk about citadels as replacements for outposts - others talk about citadels as replacements for POS.

Of course everybody comes to different personal conclusions and concerns with such different starting points ..... instead of bickering with each other over uncomparable details, trying to compile the picture as a whole would be more helpful.

For me the most prominent point of this whole citadel idea is CCP axing down big time on the variety and flexibility EVE offered its players till now ..... I dont like the prospect given at all.

spellcheck ftw. ftfy.
Another option is to have all livestock goods be wrecked and appear as frozen meat when delivered through this feature (example: exotic dancers, fedos, livestock etc..)

Edit: re-read the devblogs on new structures again and decided to change my suggestion.


The whole 'methods for saving stuff from destroyed structures' are not only convoluted and terribly immersion-breaking, they're also going to turn out to be impossible to balance in such a way that you reach your goal of inspiring much more combat of limited scale.

Either you end up with citadels being quite safe due to capital umbrellas, low recovery cost (as in effort) and people generally keep stuff tin their citadels, or they are not, an no-one will keep stuff there. The effect is that either little changes or we go back to NPC regions being the main combat zones of null. Which I must admit makes me feel all warm and nostalgic, but really would not improve things much would it?



For me, capturable outposts (as in pre-sov mechanics) made the most sense, especially now you can combine them with new industrial structures that are destructible and mechanics that promote multiple and fluid engagements of limited scale over large supercap parties

So, if you must put in citadels to replace outposts and POS, make them capturable. Preferably unconnected from sov and without reinforcement timers or vulnerability windows. Leave that stuff for the other structures.

You;d end up with access to gear depending on your dominance in your timezone, which is fine. Industrial development, production, bonus effects, ownership, mobility options and other content would depend on your ability to be dominant in multiple timezones and over a much longer time, by tying in with sov and because destruction of those resources would take a much larger effort.