Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Stay on topic? If you can't explain how the model fits, then why reply? Saying that a video game, with no reason for decline (as is shown by any upset that the PCU is low), *should* have reason for decline (just because it's a product) is worthless.

Nothing's saying that the model is worthless, but if that's the draw, there's plenty of reason for saying so:

A game without SP, originally having it, is a fresh product (experience).

"The coefficient of innovation p is so called because its contribution to new adoptions does not depend on the number of prior adoptions."

The potential market ("often determined using marketing research, e.g., surveys") increases with openness and options.

"In the Bass Model each adopter is assumed to make one and only one adoption." (It's a subscription game.)

These either undermine the model or undermine much of what's listed in this thread as the model's applicability.

So, first the model is practical; then the model is non-practical? Thus this statement is just speculation?


Those are sandboxes? Actually, most of their content is leveling. Yet even WoW got a rise in subs after an expansion pack, and the idea of those being completely re-subscriptions is unfounded.

New expansions is not the same thing as say removing all leveling. What if there was a new expansion, you came back and found leveling did nothing for you, you got everything right up front that leveling normally gives you. Would you stay for a bit then never, ever come back?

What about the Eve community. They are very involved in the game, much more so than your typical WoW player. Has the Blizzard CEO ever written anything like this?

For me the most daunting is to wait for the 20 days skill to finish.
What about letting people fly any ship with any module, straight away, or with some minor training times and you will then learn skills as you use ships and modules which will take you roughly same or faster and leave old training system for people that can not play game too often so that they can catch up too?

So you have to wait 20 days for the skill to finish or log in every day for 2, 3, 4, or more hours a day for 20 days to get that skill....the latter is awesome, while the former sucks? Okay....

If the point is that the training is ludicrous, why strawman so much? One main point is removing SP completely.


This is being pulled from nowhere, as the post it's replying on literally just says "items", so..

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Learning is made worthless by gating. Is that not a problem for interest and reward? Is the game seeming shallow and with very little to do not inherently because of the progression? SP is either effecting a fresh sub's choice positively or it is negatively effecting the likelihood of that sub. Golly, it seems like having few options for a sandbox game might seem a deterrant.

There is only a problem of “very little to do” if you are here to play the game solo. This is a game where having friends is always a benefit in terms of having something to do in the game irrespective of SP. This is not a game that is particularly ideal for the solo player (note by solo I don’t mean solo PvP, but where you play the game as if everyone else was an NPC—i.e. you rarely, if ever, interact with them).

You are arguing to change the game in a fundamental way to benefit a very tiny portion of the player base. The lack of SP might be there to foster group play...groups getting together to overcome their deficiencies as individual players and create something greater than the sum of the parts....like build a space empire. Then having those space empires go to war with each other, with politics and economics and all that.

Did this even occur to you?

And what about game balance issues? If every player has every ship and module open to them in the blink of an eye you might see things become wildly unbalanced as well. I have 3 accounts, I could put a third pilot into the anomalies ratting away in a maxed out AFKtar fit....heck carriers if I wanted too. For me my ISK creation would go up 33%. Could we see the amount of ISK entering the in game economy going up dramatically? Have you thought about the effects of a substantial increase in ISK creation?

Seriously, have you thought about the effects of your idea at all beyond, "I want my toys now!" level of thinking?

Oh FFS....who said anything about guys only in frigates carving out a space empire. Fleets need people in a variety of ships, some require lots of SP, others do not. By bringing in new players to fly the lower SP requirement ships it can free up a higher SP pilot to go into a more beneficial ship for the fleet like logistics or a DPS ship.

And with the changes in Sov alliances that turn their noses up to new players....look their **** is on fire. They have a whine thread about it as well. And one of the complaints is that it is caused by a bunch of guys in cheap ass frigates.

The point is, growing and bringing in new people to NS and training them up is much more a thing, even with groups that previously rather insular. Maybe not everybody, but getting more people in each system is a good idea. Even if they can only fly a cheap ass frig with an entosis link.

Edit:

As for ISK entering the game it is something CCP watches rather carefully, a sudden surge in ISK creation could lead to widespread inflation like it has in the past and then those new players and even not so new players will find that they have to grind longer and longer to get all those ships they don't have to train for anymore.

Seriously, we get it. You want your toys now. The answer is grow up.

And you are a fool if you think supply is going to change. Inflation having real effects are predicated on the following; people having more ISK in their wallets means that demand shifts outwards and the higher prices induce an increase in output--supply shifts out we well. However, this assumes that those players suffer from money illusion. In the end when people wake up and realize it is just inflation you do NOT get more output simply higher prices. This actually happened in the 1970s with stagflation where the policy response to high unemployment was to increase inflation based on the Phillips curve unemployment/inflation trade curve. Problem is it rested on money (aka price) illusion. Once people caught on we had higher prices and higher unemployment. In macroeconomic theory it lead researches to turn to back to microeconomics and build what was known as microfoundations into the macro models--i.e. people will not be fooled by price illusion (at least not for very long) and when they are no longer fooled the Phillips curve goes vertical and increasing inflation does nothing to unemployment. So solve the problem of high inflation and unemployment in the U.S. the Federal Reserve raised interest rates very, very high causing a steep recession.

The assumptions in this picture are ludicrous. You can fly cruisers and BC well within the first week. You can even sit in a BS after the first week.

The problem is that "Sitting in a ship" and "Piloting a ship" are 2 fundamentally different things. You can solve the first with less SP requirements, but ultimately make the second all the more grave and discouraging. Herpderping a BS into Low sec and go down in flames at the first gate is one thing, doing what people like suitonia do with the Geddon or similar pilots is a completely different activity. The first thing, you can do after a week or two and it does not require a lot of skill training. If this is what people are after, they can already do it. True pilot mastery of ships, however, require a lot more skill training and personal experience that no SP giveaway can accomplish.

Comparing EVE to all these casual games is also a huge fallacy. These games are specifically set-up to cater to casual players. They have absolutely no long-term goals beyond ranking up and getting most kills. There is no long-term impact of your actions on the game. EVE has a completely different set-up. EVE is long-term oriented and is more a hobby than a mere game. You cannot just get in, do stuff and get out again (in particular not in Sov Null sec and W-Space). EVE sure has its casual elements (FW plexes, Missions, player-created public fleets (although even they require some preparation as you need to be at their starting place to participate)) but overall EVE is oriented towards long-term commitment and gameplay.

People in that picture also lament about lack of contact and communication with other new players. If people find this a problem, they need to do something about this. E-Uni, Brave, PH, KF and things like Spectre and Ganked are some first steps, but if people want more, they need to force CCP to think about way how to promote and support this. However, most people are just not interested in new players. It is apparently very rare these days to find a new player coming into the game with an open attitude and expectations that allows them to progress and make teaching them an enjoyable task. Most new players rather seem to be dickheads wanting to fly a BS perfectly after day 2 and get all upset when someone explains them that this is not how things work here and what you can do with smaller ships instead.