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EVE New Citizens Q&A

 
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EVE Online: The Waiting Game
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Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
#141 - 2015-09-08 12:31:59 UTC
Caladan Panzureborn wrote:
It's nice to see the discussion is still going, though where it's going? Not sure. I'm still playing the game. I've tried joining a few corps. No luck there yet on one that fits my needs. Mining still appeals to me as a way of making ISK so Industry V just has one day left on the timer. Then I'll have a couple other skills i'll need to get to IV to be able to hop in the Procurer.
My current fun in the game has been looting battle wrecks in low sec and null sec for sexy T2 modules worth a ton of ISK(to me as a newb anyway). I've found the threat of getting killed while I try to get to the best wrecks pretty exciting. I've had some good fun evading the dudes that try to kill me (so far so good thank you Warp Stabs) and it's pretty satisfying getting in and out of an area intact and with a cargo bay full of loots. I've been fired on like four times and was able to get away each time though one guy got me down to like 20% hull in what seemed like a single volley before i got out of there.
I bought a T1 Freighter to haul all my crap around and once I got about 100 mill worth of stuff together I decided to make the trip to Jita to see what it would be like and with the hope of selling everything quickly. Again, i found the possibility of danger pretty exciting and wasn't sure if any Jita Gankers would make a go for my ship. I had read that you need to have a cargo hold worth of a least a billion ISK for them to go for ya, not sure if that's the case or not. I made it in and out of Jita without a hitch. Sold everything I brought and with a decent amount of change in the bank, thought ok, I can fly the Vexor now if I feel like it.
As I was heading home from Jita in the freighter, I came across a T2 or T3 Cruiser wreck just sitting their with no one around. I moseyed on over to it at a whopping 150 m/s lol and boom: cha ching! 344 million ISK worth of modules. Awesome. I wasn't about to warp back to Jita with the yellow suspect time going so i docked a jump away and waited it out. Once the timer was clear, nervously jumped back into Jita and docked again with no problem, though as I was docking, a freighter next to me exploded. Eek! Better him than me, I thought. Came away with another 340 million or so. Easy money.
I do still want to get into traditional ship combat PvP and plan on training up my T1 frigate skills I need once the mining stuff is done I've also considered doing my battle wreck looting in my Vexor so if any one does come after me, instead of running I would put up a fight as it's usually just one or two ships that come after me, but I'm not so sure if that's a profitable way to go. But could be fun! As it is now, I'm using a cheaply fitted Imicus for it and it's been working well as it has a decent cargo hold and is small and fast enough and if anyone did catch me slippin', meh. Less than a mill to replace and back at it.



I know you used paragraphs but still...holy wall of text, Batman :)

Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .

Bumble's Space Log
Samuel Triptee
Battle Toad Brigade
Ribbit.
#142 - 2015-09-08 12:47:16 UTC
Caladan Panzureborn wrote:
It's nice to see the discussion is still going, though where it's going? Not sure. I'm still playing the game. I've tried joining a few corps. No luck there yet on one that fits my needs. Mining still appeals to me as a way of making ISK so Industry V just has one day left on the timer. Then I'll have a couple other skills i'll need to get to IV to be able to hop in the Procurer.
My current fun in the game has been looting battle wrecks in low sec and null sec for sexy T2 modules worth a ton of ISK(to me as a newb anyway). I've found the threat of getting killed while I try to get to the best wrecks pretty exciting. I've had some good fun evading the dudes that try to kill me (so far so good thank you Warp Stabs) and it's pretty satisfying getting in and out of an area intact and with a cargo bay full of loots. I've been fired on like four times and was able to get away each time though one guy got me down to like 20% hull in what seemed like a single volley before i got out of there.
I bought a T1 Freighter to haul all my crap around and once I got about 100 mill worth of stuff together I decided to make the trip to Jita to see what it would be like and with the hope of selling everything quickly. Again, i found the possibility of danger pretty exciting and wasn't sure if any Jita Gankers would make a go for my ship. I had read that you need to have a cargo hold worth of a least a billion ISK for them to go for ya, not sure if that's the case or not. I made it in and out of Jita without a hitch. Sold everything I brought and with a decent amount of change in the bank, thought ok, I can fly the Vexor now if I feel like it.
As I was heading home from Jita in the freighter, I came across a T2 or T3 Cruiser wreck just sitting their with no one around. I moseyed on over to it at a whopping 150 m/s lol and boom: cha ching! 344 million ISK worth of modules. Awesome. I wasn't about to warp back to Jita with the yellow suspect time going so i docked a jump away and waited it out. Once the timer was clear, nervously jumped back into Jita and docked again with no problem, though as I was docking, a freighter next to me exploded. Eek! Better him than me, I thought. Came away with another 340 million or so. Easy money.
I do still want to get into traditional ship combat PvP and plan on training up my T1 frigate skills I need once the mining stuff is done I've also considered doing my battle wreck looting in my Vexor so if any one does come after me, instead of running I would put up a fight as it's usually just one or two ships that come after me, but I'm not so sure if that's a profitable way to go. But could be fun! As it is now, I'm using a cheaply fitted Imicus for it and it's been working well as it has a decent cargo hold and is small and fast enough and if anyone did catch me slippin', meh. Less than a mill to replace and back at it.


Sounds like some fun!

Think I may try it sometime...

Have You Hugged Your Frigate Today?
Cara Forelli
State War Academy
Caldari State
#143 - 2015-09-08 13:31:25 UTC
Glad you're still around and having fun OP. Big smile

Caladan Panzureborn wrote:
I bought a T1 Freighter to haul all my crap around and once I got about 100 mill worth of stuff together I decided to make the trip to Jita to see what it would be like and with the hope of selling everything quickly. Again, i found the possibility of danger pretty exciting and wasn't sure if any Jita Gankers would make a go for my ship. I had read that you need to have a cargo hold worth of a least a billion ISK for them to go for ya, not sure if that's the case or not.

Just a word of caution. You've mixed up some info regarding ganking. "Freighters" in EVE are specific ship class, not just any hauling ship. They are enormous, slow, and have huge bays and lots of HP. Which is why they need to be carying a decent amount to make it worthwhile to suicide gank them (since it takes many catalysts or tornados). The thing you read about having a billion in cargo refers specifically to freighters. A T1 industrial is likely to be ganked for much less. I always use extreme caution if I'm carrying more than 100 mil in an industrial.

There are a few things you can do to improve your safety whilst hauling. See: insta-docks, insta-undocks, and the microwarpdrive-cloak trick.

Want to talk? Join my channel in game: House Forelli

Titan's Lament
Johnny Riko
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#144 - 2015-09-08 14:48:33 UTC
Aerasia wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
patience ,willingness to accept guidance , and big mother****ing balls are all you need to pull something like that off
A fully T2 fit Assault Frigate probably doesn't hurt.

But you're right. If you try hard enough, and long enough, you'll eventually find somebody anti-tanked enough with stupid to overcome all the advantages handed to them.

Johnny Riko wrote:
Eve PvP is much more than having the best ship/modules/skills.
It's also having the best links/drugs.

If PvP was just about having heart, determination and numbers, Brave would own half of nullsec. Eventually you're going to run out of n+1, and you're going to need to pony up some better gear if you want to win. Do you think it's a coincidence that RvB puts "Hey, downship for fights if you have to - don't be a ****" in their FAQ? Or that the Alliance Tournament needs rules about deadspace mods?

Cara Forelli wrote:
There are a million examples of successful newbros PVPing with low SP.
There's a million examples of newbros killwhoring on gatecamps, or F1-ing when the FC tells them to.

There's also a million examples of newbros getting their ISK pushed in when somebody with some bigger bling to throw at the fight decides to take down a fleet twice their size.

You can certainly participate in PvP with a two week old character. In the same way you could participate in the NFL. The difference is, I don't blame people for aiming a little higher than participation.


Wow, you're truly ludicrous.
I never said PvP was about "heart, dedication & numbers". My point was that a good pvp'er will know how to fit their ship, what type of ships it can engage, and how best to engage. Hence why Brave isn't the best Alliance in the game.

Eve isn't a game where you pay more isk to have a bigger sword to swing at people, every ship/module/tactic has hard and soft counters. In my experience, the best pvpers/alliances know how to exploit these counters to give themselves the best chance of victory.

I wanna join up. I think I got what it takes to be a Citizen.
Caladan Panzureborn
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#145 - 2015-09-08 15:13:49 UTC
Cara Forelli wrote:
Glad you're still around and having fun OP. Big smile

Caladan Panzureborn wrote:
I bought a T1 Freighter to haul all my crap around and once I got about 100 mill worth of stuff together I decided to make the trip to Jita to see what it would be like and with the hope of selling everything quickly. Again, i found the possibility of danger pretty exciting and wasn't sure if any Jita Gankers would make a go for my ship. I had read that you need to have a cargo hold worth of a least a billion ISK for them to go for ya, not sure if that's the case or not.

Just a word of caution. You've mixed up some info regarding ganking. "Freighters" in EVE are specific ship class, not just any hauling ship. They are enormous, slow, and have huge bays and lots of HP. Which is why they need to be carying a decent amount to make it worthwhile to suicide gank them (since it takes many catalysts or tornados). The thing you read about having a billion in cargo refers specifically to freighters. A T1 industrial is likely to be ganked for much less. I always use extreme caution if I'm carrying more than 100 mil in an industrial.

There are a few things you can do to improve your safety whilst hauling. See: insta-docks, insta-undocks, and the microwarpdrive-cloak trick.


Cara, thanks a lot for the info and clarification. Yes, a T1 industrial is what I meant. I'll look into the dock tricks. I must've gotten lucky not getting ganked then from the sound of it.
Aerasia
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#146 - 2015-09-08 15:19:25 UTC
Johnny Riko wrote:
Wow, you're truly ludicrous.
I've also got it on good authority I'm "bad" too.
Quote:
My point was that a good pvp'er will know how to fit their ship, what type of ships it can engage, and how best to engage.
But a "good pvp'er" never has to decide "I can't handle this fight because I'm not skilled/fit enough"?
Quote:
Eve isn't a game where you pay more isk to have a bigger sword to swing at people
That is precisely what EVE is.

Think you're doing well in your Kestrel? Spend some ISK, upgrade to a Worm.
Think your Worm is hot ****? Spend some ISK, upgrade to a Svipul.
Think your Svipul is unbeatable tech? Spend some ISK, upgrade to ....

You might not be able to buy a ship that can kill everything, but let's not pretend that ISK can't buy wins.
___________________________________________________________________

There are tasks that don't take millions of SP to do. Even more can be started with low SP. Caladan's wandering salvage service is proof enough of that (grats on the cruiser find btw Smile).

But I don't get why people insist that all things in EVE can be accomplished with some player knowledge and a little old fashioned gumption. It's not true. You're going to need SP and ISK if you want to compete.

ISK is gated by in game activity. Sure, you could grind out missions for your ISK like most do. Or, like Caladan, you could try something new, get a bit lucky and make your fortune that way.

SP is a different animal. It's just "How much money have I given CCP?". It doesn't teach you anything, it doesn't prepare you for what's ahead, there's no reasoning or purpose to it. That little "Ding! Skill training completed." is just a confirmation that X days/weeks/months ago, you double-clicked a skill.
Azda Ja
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#147 - 2015-09-08 15:40:33 UTC
The problem here is people are operating at the extremes. Yes, ISK can buy you a crazy good/borderline OP ship (looking at you Orthrus). What, I and most other PvPers are saying isn't that ISK and the SP is a non-factor; but rather that people make too big a deal about it. Yes, chances are you'll die going up a blingy ship with OP bonuses. But with know how and good old fashion gumption, you can drastically increase your chances of success, and get ridiculously awesome kills through good decision making and knowledge. Cara for example has killed a Rattlesnake in a bomber, by testing fits and tactics with yours truly and then having the balls to tackle one in game. One of Ralph's old corp mates killed a Marauder in an Ishkur at a couple months old.

These things may not be the norm, but that's because most people don't put in the effort to get those same kills. You have to actually step up to the plate to do it. It's not enough to just lol-tackle anything that moves and expect to win. Research and understanding the mechanics at play are one's primary concern when learning how to PvP. One's wallet balance and SP amount, while not irrelevant, takes a backseat to those first two. THAT is the point I and others are making.

If a newbie wants to get into the game and PvP. They should just go and do it, instead of bitching bout SP on the forums, because all the SP in the world is not going to help them when they're charging head on into an Artillery Tornado in a deadspace Svipul.

Grrr.
Aerasia
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#148 - 2015-09-08 16:21:48 UTC
Azda Ja wrote:
One of Ralph's old corp mates killed a Marauder in an Ishkur at a couple months old.
That would be the one he linked to. Ironic, that he was using what I can only imagine was a focus trained AF toon (I can guarantee has a dozen skills to V) as an argument you don't need SP.

And I agree with the idea that a dramatic skill imbalance can overcome an ISK/SP imbalance. But that works both ways, and unless you plan on spending your life enforcing the CODE you're going to have to expect that you're going to get into a fight with somebody who knows what they're doing.

But extremes aren't the only issue. There's also the people who say "It's only 3 months to train" (i.e. the ~6M SP that Ralph says the AF pilot had) as if that wasn't an eternity for a character that's only 15 hours old. Forgetting where and how you start in the game is easily as big an issue.

There's also the people who see character age as a right of passage, which gives them a power they don't want to give up. For as much as people argue that SP aren't important, suggesting that the system should be done away with certainly brings out the fangs.

Maybe the one I find the most aggravating is portraying the newbie roles as something desirable. Those roles which, to be fair, need to be done - but nobody wants to do. So you get the newbro to Logi/EWAR/Suicide Tackle, because they don't really have any choice in the matter. It's all they've got SP for.
Cara Forelli
State War Academy
Caldari State
#149 - 2015-09-08 19:48:30 UTC
Aerasia wrote:
And I agree with the idea that a dramatic skill imbalance can overcome an ISK/SP imbalance. But that works both ways, and unless you plan on spending your life enforcing the CODE you're going to have to expect that you're going to get into a fight with somebody who knows what they're doing.

I can (but won't because of forum rules) link you a dozen kills I've had, completely solo, against older players in more expensive or larger ships. All within my first year of playing. I earned them by thinking outside the box. For instance, I put a neut on a breacher and killed a faction fit daredevil by capping him out. That Daredevil could have killed most any Breacher fit easily but by fitting unexpectedly I turned the tables on a much older player, with much better skills, in a much more expensive ship, with much stronger natural bonuses.

A while back I took on a 2008 player in a Thorax v. Thorax fight. He outmatched me in skills but I won by loading null and scram-kiting. I correctly guessed that he would underestimate me and use void, counting on his skills for higher DPS. I took advantage of my knowledge of his fit - mine was slightly faster because of the choices I made when fitting it. I exploited this to win the fight.

You don't need purple or green mods to win fights. You don't need max skills. You just need a little creativity and forethought. Will that work every time? No. There's plenty of potential engagements you should not take. Can't take a fight? Find a different one that fits your engagement profile. Or find a way to change your fit or your plan to win.

Aerasia wrote:
But extremes aren't the only issue. There's also the people who say "It's only 3 months to train" (i.e. the ~6M SP that Ralph says the AF pilot had) as if that wasn't an eternity for a character that's only 15 hours old. Forgetting where and how you start in the game is easily as big an issue.

I do kind of agree with this part. The first few weeks are a struggle. The combination of low SP, zero experience, and lack of acquaintances makes it difficult to PVP without getting discouraged by losses. However, only the first can be solved through skill-queue online. The others require you to play. Passively skilling for a year will not make you any better at PVP and you will still lose your first engagements due to inexperience.

Aerasia wrote:
Maybe the one I find the most aggravating is portraying the newbie roles as something desirable. Those roles which, to be fair, need to be done - but nobody wants to do. So you get the newbro to Logi/EWAR/Suicide Tackle, because they don't really have any choice in the matter. It's all they've got SP for.

I actually love all three of those roles and volunteer for one of them in 90% of my fleet activities despite having the SP to do whatever I want. I find them much more interesting than DPS, especially in larger gangs. Everyone has different taste.

What I find aggravating is people who discourage newbies from even trying to PVP. Yes, in the beginning it will be difficult. There's a lot to learn and there's a lot to skill. But there's also plenty of fun fights and exciting victories to be had. Just because you are at disadvantage doesn't mean you will lose, and it doesn't mean you shouldn't try. It means you need to find another way to win. And the "SP gap" doesn't last nearly as long as people make it out to.

Not being able to compete with vets is a myth. I did it many times when I was new, solo. I have friends that did it when they were new, solo. I've even had new players get the better of me since then, solo.

So stop telling them it can't be done. It can be done.

Want to talk? Join my channel in game: House Forelli

Titan's Lament
Aerasia
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#150 - 2015-09-08 20:25:05 UTC
Cara Forelli wrote:
What I find aggravating is people who discourage newbies from even trying to PVP.
Which I'm sure I'm guilty of, even if indirectly and certainly unintentionally. I'm a big fan of organizations like RvB, which have a goal of not just creating content but putting it within a competitive structure. I'm just not sadistic enough to encourage somebody at 2M SP to go try their hand at Solo. Or even try and convince them they're an indispensable part of their corp fleet.

Quote:
And the "SP gap" doesn't last nearly as long as people make it out to.
That depends a bit on how you measure.

Take Ralph's friend in the AF. Having all the skills in place for that at only 6M SP seems out of place for an actual newbro, so I'm assuming that's an alt. And if so, that means the training queue was probably laser focused on Frigate combat.

A single toon player has to worry about replacing their ship in a way that alts don't. And there aren't a lot of ISK making opportunities in a frigate, so a new player is going to be naturally drawn to the obvious paths - Mining Barges and Mission Ravens. Those eat up millions of SP, and you need your income stream in place before you go losing AFs to Marauder gank attempts at 30M+ a pop.

You're right though, the raw gap is a lot less than it feels when you're starting out. I've been there, done that. Combat readiness seems impossibly far away when you're sitting in a Meta 0 fit Frigate with some modules only having just become available. But as I've said here, and every time the topic comes up, I see no reason that gap even has to exist. I'm not a fan of arbitrary time barriers.

Quote:
Passively skilling for a year will not make you any better at PVP and you will still lose your first engagements due to inexperience.
And this is part of why. I certainly don't expect somebody to AFK-skill for a year and come out of the gate a champ. But I also know that learning the ropes of PvP takes a lot less time than getting the SP for whatever role you want.
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#151 - 2015-09-08 20:26:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Tsukino Stareine
Nobody said you don't need SP.

You just don't need the same SP as a 10 year vet to beat him

this game is about strategy, not twitch reactions in a dogfight.

I guarantee a noob in a counter ship/fit to someone with 100m sp will win regardless of how many hundreds of millions they sunk into it.

Plus we have examples of terrible attempts at pay2win quite often, someone buying all purple and blue and a character to boot and losing it in the most hilarious ways

Art of Explosions
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#152 - 2015-09-08 20:40:05 UTC
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
Nobody said you don't need SP.

You just don't need the same SP as a 10 year vet to beat him

this game is about strategy, not twitch reactions in a dogfight.

I guarantee a noob in a counter ship/fit to someone with 100m sp will win regardless of how many hundreds of millions they sunk into it.

Plus we have examples of terrible attempts at pay2win quite often, someone buying all purple and blue and a character to boot and losing it in the most hilarious ways

Bingo, please refer to the link in my last post for a ridiculous example of this.

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Aerasia
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#153 - 2015-09-08 22:30:13 UTC
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
Nobody said you don't need SP.

Well,
Earlier in this thread wrote:

Bellatrix Invicta
You're combat effective from day one,

Sitting Bull Lakota
If you've got prop jamming trained to I you can be deadly in pvp.

ergherhdfgh
So I have a brand new Minmatar character with 55K skill points.

Donnachadh
SP is not what limits new players, creativity and a willingness to do what they can is what limits their play.

Zihao
It's an open-ended single-shard game where individual skillpoints matter very little in the grand scheme of things.
except for those people who did.

But to be fair, just as many people said "Weeks to train? Ha! I've been training for years, HTFU and just go do something else for a while."
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#154 - 2015-09-08 22:59:09 UTC
Aerasia wrote:
ergherhdfgh wrote:
The min/max, "must be level capped fully decked out in best in slot gear", can't play the game until my stats are perfect mentality has no place in this game.
Well, other than PVP.

I know I link this all the time but it completely disproves what you are claiming. If you don't want to watch the whole video I will summarize. It is an experienced PvP vet on a trial account alt running around in a rifter killing much older toons in much more expensive ships. He is at the oldest during filming 17 days old. The ship is meta 3 fit.

So he's about 2 weeks old T1 fit in a T1 standard frigate and pwning. Sometimes taking on 2 and 3 T2 ships at once.

In eve everything has it's counter. PvP in Eve is not about having more skill points or a more expensive ship or a more expensive fit. It is about knowing the ships and the match ups and knowing what you can kill and what can kill you. It's not about having a better ship or a better fit it's about having the right ship or the right fit.

You can continue to keep blaming your lack of skill and knowledge on your skill points but the above linked video just flat proves you wrong.

Aerasia wrote:

You can certainly participate in PvP with a two week old character. In the same way you could participate in the NFL. The difference is, I don't blame people for aiming a little higher than participation.

If you are waiting until you have the skill points to win before you PvP you'll never win. Being good at PvP in Eve requires experience and lots of it. If you start PvPing right away by the time that you get experienced i.e. good you'll have more than enough skill points to fly and fit what you need to win.

Is it true that if you had 2 identically skilled pilots flying the same ship that the one with the more skill points and / or more expensive modules would more likely win? Yes that is likely true however that is not how PvP works in Eve. What I and other pilots have been trying to tell you is that your perspective here is completely valid in a game like WoW or Battlefield where you have highly balanced and highly structured PvP. That combat style just does not exist in Eve with the one exception being the Alliance Tournament.

Aerasia wrote:
But a "good pvp'er" never has to decide "I can't handle this fight because I'm not skilled/fit enough"?

That doesn't happen in Eve again Johnny was talking about counters and not having to decide based on skill points. Knowing which ships you can kill and which you can't based on your ships strong and weak points.

Aerasia wrote:
That would be the one he linked to. Ironic, that he was using what I can only imagine was a focus trained AF toon

If you are a PvP type of person and that's all that you want to do and you want to be good at it then there is no reason for you to train into anything else.

Yes if you are a more causual player and want to try all the various aspects of Eve then it will take a bit longer to train everything. Eve is after all about having to make decisions and deal with the consequences. But yes if you want to be very good at anything you will need to focus on that one thing and if you spread your self about you will be less good at more things. This is just a fact of life that is true both in and out of game.

Want to talk? Join Cara's channel in game: House Forelli
Zihao
Doomheim
#155 - 2015-09-08 23:08:45 UTC
Aerasia wrote:



Very little != Zero
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#156 - 2015-09-08 23:14:48 UTC
Aerasia wrote:

Maybe the one I find the most aggravating is portraying the newbie roles as something desirable. Those roles which, to be fair, need to be done - but nobody wants to do. So you get the newbro to Logi/EWAR/Suicide Tackle, because they don't really have any choice in the matter. It's all they've got SP for.

I can not comment on what other people find desirable or not.

What I can say is that these roles that you are calling "newbie roles" are not such because that is all that their skill points will allow or anything like that. It's also not something thrust upon them in most cases.

New players often whine about not wanting to be F1 monkeys. Also that fact that they have very limited understanding about how to actually pilot a ship in combat, limits to a certain extent what they can do without feeling overwhelmed. Logi and Ewar ships have much longer range than the typical brawling ship and there for are much easier to "pilot" because you can sit further back and be less focused on what your ship is doing in relation to other's. That's not to say those roles are easier just that your focus is less on piloting your own ship and more on what is going on on grid as a whole. The pulled back viewpoint can also reduce the overwhelmed feeling new players often have.

Logi and Ewar are no less important and arguably it would be better for the fleet to have your more experienced pilots flying those roles. But again if you want to keep a new pilot from feeling overwhelmed then let him fly something that he can sit back further. Also something like logi or Ewar is more clear to see your affect and feel like you are contributing.

Tackle on the other hand I don't understand why new players keep calling that a newbie role. The more experienced players keep telling me that your tackle are your scouts and in most cases you want them to be the best most experienced pilots in fleet. From what I've been told it's definitely not a newbie role.

Want to talk? Join Cara's channel in game: House Forelli
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#157 - 2015-09-08 23:30:11 UTC
Aerasia wrote:


'ergherhdfgh
So I have a brand new Minmatar character with 55K skill points.'

except for those people who did.

But to be fair, just as many people said "Weeks to train? Ha! I've been training for years, HTFU and just go do something else for a while."

You totally pulled that quote completely out of context. I never once said that you don't need skill points or even hinted that they are totally useless. What I did say was that after the first couple weeks they don't hold you back and for the first couple weeks you are learning the game anyway.

I also said that your skill points don't hold you back from doing anything or participating in anything or having fun. I also said that they are far from the most important thing and in the vast majority of cases not what determines the winner of any engagement.

I said skill points were not everything. I never said that they were nothing.

You however have tried to make is seem like without very high skill points you can't win at PvP which is just not true and you also tried to make it seem as if the player with higher skill points and / or more expensive modules will always win which again is provably wrong.

Watch the eveiseasy video that I linked and then go watch some of the Rooks and Kings videos. You will see people using game knowledge and a superior strategy to win up against much large numbers.

I challenge you to watch the 17 day old minmatar character in a meta 3 fit rifter go up against 3 T2 frigates and still get a kill and then try and tell me how skill points and all T2 is required to be effective and win.

Want to talk? Join Cara's channel in game: House Forelli
Aerasia
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#158 - 2015-09-08 23:58:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Aerasia
ergherhdfgh wrote:
What I can say is that these roles that you are calling "newbie roles" are not such because that is all that their skill points will allow or anything like that.
Low SP is exactly why newbies get thrust into those roles. What?

Tackle doesn't care about your SP totals. Pointed is pointed - end of story. DPS on the other hand is very skill intensive. Easily half the DPS available to your hull is unlocked through SP. Logi and Ewar are also quick to get up to effectiveness. Those modules don't require anywhere near as much support SP, and are often a binary on/off effect regardless.

I'm also completely aware of suitonia, and his hilarious video. I'm not won over on the idea of low SP PvP by the idea my combat frigate is capable of killing anti-tanked Interceptors and Stealth Bombers. He got those kills fairly, but showing me that at 17 days old I'm going to be counting on my targets to make grave errors in judgement, and even then I'll barely be able to kill ships that I'm flying the hard counter to isn't making a great case.
Zihao
Doomheim
#159 - 2015-09-09 01:44:28 UTC
William Shakespeare, Measure for Measure wrote:
Our doubts are traitors,
and make us lose the good we oft might win,
by fearing to attempt.
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#160 - 2015-09-09 11:32:40 UTC
Aerasia wrote:
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
Nobody said you don't need SP.

Well,
Earlier in this thread wrote:

Bellatrix Invicta
You're combat effective from day one,

Sitting Bull Lakota
If you've got prop jamming trained to I you can be deadly in pvp.

ergherhdfgh
So I have a brand new Minmatar character with 55K skill points.

Donnachadh
SP is not what limits new players, creativity and a willingness to do what they can is what limits their play.

Zihao
It's an open-ended single-shard game where individual skillpoints matter very little in the grand scheme of things.
except for those people who did.

But to be fair, just as many people said "Weeks to train? Ha! I've been training for years, HTFU and just go do something else for a while."




Sorry, my understanding of the English language may not be perfect, however I still do not see anywhere in these quotes where they have specifically stated that you DO NOT NEED SP to be effective in pvp.

I also believe you understand this to be the case as well, however to attempt to bolster your incredibly weak argument, you are twisting these words to make it seem as you have a point.

Art of Explosions