EVE General Discussion

So since the Incarna tantrum and massive resources spent listening to players has lead to the death of the game. Does this mean we'll get WiS soon?

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Wrong. You're making **** up trying to claim something that is false, claiming you have no agenda when it's clear you do. Pretending that the only time the game has seen boom-bust is with PvE patches is disingenuous and you know it. Expansions of all types have always brought and influx of players that have for the most part left. The only reason it didn't show as obviously prior to then is because the game was still experiencing rapid growth, while Incursion was released when players were already starting to get edgy and was followed by the summer of rage. Claims that the decline had anything to do with Incusrion are totally and utterly wrong.

I'm not going to be dragged into another circular argument with you abut it, so expect me to skim read any further posts you make about it and just respond with "Wrong", since it's clear you have no intention of halting your dishonesty. Further, it gets nowhere, since according to you you're not in favour of halting PvE improvements, so why are you so dead set on trying to get people to believe this rubbish?

I cancelled my sub last week.

To put in simply - I'm bored of it all.

There is a massive lack of conflict drivers in this game now that the nullsec game has been essentially won by Goonswarm and friends. I can no longer stand being part of the blue donut, and part of the problem.

90% of the guys I used to log on with have vanished, and the PvE in this game is so terrible I cannot bear to do any of it.

I hope Eve Online continues and even increases the playerbase once again somehow, but deep down I can't see it happening. I think from here it's a long and slow decline. I had three good years with it, but I feel I missed out on it's heyday.

I'll be donating all my stuff to my corp.

It doesn't matter. Even if PCU climbs to 70k in two months, someone will post another thread like this, just a different thread title, just like last time.

Nope.

Not that it matters, but no, I really didn't. They're just not relevant to the case comparison since they fall outside of that period. The closest you'd get is Dominion, and as funny as it may seem in retrospect, even it ended up as a net gain.

They only chance it has of solving any problem is if it is done in a way that gels with the rest of EVE, and in particular with the overarching PvP environment within which it will have to exist. Again, that's the whole issue: “improved PvE” is not some magical panacea that will solve anything. You can break stuff with improved PvE and you can even solve some things by adding bad PvE. What matters most is that it fits in.

Skew that redrawn graph vertically and it will look even scarier. You should try it and post again to tell us how much scarier the figures look that way.

Actually it is going up, for the EU time zones. US time zone is down right now though, we've gotten pretty tired of all the EVE is Dying™ complaining - and took the weekend off for a major summer holiday extended weekend extravaganza. It's about 5k lower on avg from this time last year for the month. If there is a mass exodus going on from the skill queue logins, I hope it's the complainers

Of course it's relevant, because you're saying "PvE expansions are boom-bust", but it's really "expansions are boom-bust".

It's not a magical panacea, no, but they don't need to look specifically at how to make sure people are getting blown up to make basic improvements to PvE mechanics. PvE is underdeveloped in this game specifically because whenever they look at PvE they look at it with a view to ensure that the focus is on PvP, failing to understand that there's a significant part of the playerbase that just want to come and shoot some red crosses. They aren't exempt from activities of others, but they aren't forced into the "pew pew" side of PvP, and that's fine. I have no problem with those people existing, nor do I have a problem with their gameplay styles receiving improvements.

The problem is that so many people are so adamant that every change to PvE should be surrounded with restrictions that make the PvE part secondary to being blown up that they just don't get improved. You're undoubtedly one of these "NPC corp players shouldn't be allowed improvements to any of their gameplay, or should just be removed" guys. Like changes should be written to specifically exclude them or they should be punished more until being in an NPC corp is detrimental to entertainment..

Don't get me wrong though, I fully understand where you're coming from. It would be great if everyone wanted to do all of the heavy PvP stuff in EVE over everything else. But they don't, and treating them like second rate players won't help build the game's population.

All of this is just needless fear, fueled by people who don't know they are having a 'sunk cost' experience lol. Almost no one is more fanatical about EVE Online than I am (I could have had a couple of Ph.Ds with the time I've wasted playing EVE mostly killing NPCs with a few real people sprinkled in). This kind of anxiety leads to stupidity and panic, and to CCPs credit they don't seem to be panicinking.

This, of course, ticks of the manipulators who want to use any hint of decline to get CCP to 'change course' and save the game, where 'saving the game' conveniently coincides with their very own personal preferences (notice how the High Sec PVErs belive whole heartedly that what the game needs is...more high sec pve lol). They can't fathom the concept that what might actually help the game is the opposite of what they want.

For YEARS people PVE'd in high sec, complaining up down and sideways about 'griefers' and bad people. CCP has been on a nerfing spree of these 'bad people' aka 'the people who actually make the game interesting for non-pantywaist PVErs', and all of a sudden, it's high sec player numbers being effected. Well hell, what did you expect, while people in high sec claim they want safety and security, their actions say otherwise.

The decline of high sec players don't come from bad PVE . This can be seen clearly by the fact that even though CCP has spent lots of time and money adding PVE to EVE (incursions, wormhole stuff, FW, improved AI, exploration mini game, epic arcs, burner missions, now DRIFTERS etc etc), the most used PVE is STILL missions and anomalies create pre-2005. The average PVEr doesn't want a challenge, he wants a cake walk as far as content is concerned.

The real truth here is that CCP Wal-Mart'd their own game, they listened to the ignorant whining of self proclaimed PVE 'spokespersons' and nerfed the only real content PVErs had... the people who try to stop us from PVEing. For real EVE PVE jocks, it's the joy if getting away with it against (real or imagined) pvp opposition that keeps many of us saving the same Damsel over and over again. It's being able to engineer new ways to do the PVE, not the PVE itself.


You want the game to grow again? Get rid of the BS 'safety' measures CCP keeps adding that creates 'pop up hell' every time we try to do something interesting in high sec (i got a freaking POP UP telling me I didn't have the right cargo last time i did a Sisters mission, a game that won't let you fail isn't a game). Ask yourself "why did this game grow before all this safety and focus on PVE?" if you want the actual truth of the matter.

Actually, it's likely to just alienate a subset of the playerbase while doing absolutely nothing for player retention. It's like saying "let's make wormholes more frequently used by adding immediate local, fixed stargates and the ability to use cynos". All it does is reduce variety in the game. If some dude wants to pay for subs to spend all of his playtime shooting red triangles to save up for the titan he dreams of getting, great, more subs for EVE. It has minimal effect on the rest of us, so I just don't care.

Further, it's obvious that the majority of gamers playing other MMOs just want to grind riches generally at a shockingly inefficient rate. As long as they can keep them from having to much impact on the rest of us, where's the downside to letting those same players pay CCP to do it in space?