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Training skills on alt characters

Author
Jessica Pixel
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2015-09-07 18:27:37 UTC
I just found out that I have to pay 30 bucks to train an alt character per month? I pay 20 bucks a month just to play this game and now i have to pay 20 more to play a second and 3 slot. I have never in all my time of paying MMOs seen such greed by the developers.

When I purchased an account i saw three slot with four fractions and I figure great i can try out the different factions but with out being able to train skill on alts it kills the game for me. I see charging people to pay more to play an alt as a scam. I would like to hear reason in this.

The only solution i have for you is remove the charge, reduce it to a few bucks, or make it a permanent feature once paid for. I will not continue to pay 50 a month for the game.

Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
#2 - 2015-09-07 18:39:07 UTC
Jessica Pixel wrote:
I i saw three slot with four fractions



fraction lazor rouge drones!



CCP deliberately overcharges people who saying any and/or all of these words. What?


Seriously though, there already is a solution - pay for the alt training privilege by earning ISK in-game and pay with PLEX. If you can accept either this or coughing up and paying RL money, great. If not, I would suggest that this maybe isn't the game for you - instant gratification isn't always available.

Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .

Bumble's Space Log

Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#3 - 2015-09-07 18:43:11 UTC
Name me another game that gives you passive(<-----key word there ) sp accumulation on multiple characters
Jessica Pixel
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2015-09-07 18:49:41 UTC
Bumblefck wrote:
Jessica Pixel wrote:
I i saw three slot with four fractions



fraction lazor rouge drones!



CCP deliberately overcharges people who saying any and/or all of these words. What?


Seriously though, there already is a solution - pay for the alt training privilege by earning ISK in-game and pay with PLEX. If you can accept either this or coughing up and paying RL money, great. If not, I would suggest that this maybe isn't the game for you - instant gratification isn't always available.


Plex is what, the instruction manual for this game is bigger than a university library. My guess is Plex is a time consumption method that once paid for you have to start earning it again to payf or it again and no real game time comes in right? if so your right this game is not for me.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#5 - 2015-09-07 19:18:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Ralph King-Griffin
Jessica Pixel wrote:
Bumblefck wrote:
Jessica Pixel wrote:
I i saw three slot with four fractions



fraction lazor rouge drones!



CCP deliberately overcharges people who saying any and/or all of these words. What?


Seriously though, there already is a solution - pay for the alt training privilege by earning ISK in-game and pay with PLEX. If you can accept either this or coughing up and paying RL money, great. If not, I would suggest that this maybe isn't the game for you - instant gratification isn't always available.


Plex is what, the instruction manual for this game is bigger than a university library. My guess is Plex is a time consumption method that once paid for you have to start earning it again to payf or it again and no real game time comes in right? if so your right this game is not for me.

Two characters on seperate a accounts runs €30 ish per month,

thats the equivalent of dinner and a nice bottle of wine or about two hours in the pub with my mates.

Also passive sp(can't stress this enough,pay sub, set skills, get 30 days worth of sp regardless of activity.
That's pretty ****ing generous imo).

The sub and sp model here is the most generous in the industry, where do you get greedy from?
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#6 - 2015-09-07 19:20:34 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
Jessica Pixel wrote:
I just found out that I have to pay 30 bucks to train an alt character per month? I pay 20 bucks a month just to play this game and now i have to pay 20 more to play a second and 3 slot. I have never in all my time of paying MMOs seen such greed by the developers.

Show me another MMO which...

- allows you to train / gain skillpoints when you are not playing with that character.

- allows you to train / gain skillpoints on multiple characters at the same time.

Jessica Pixel wrote:
When I purchased an account i saw three slot with four fractions and I figure great i can try out the different factions but with out being able to train skill on alts it kills the game for me. I see charging people to pay more to play an alt as a scam. I would like to hear reason in this.

1. Playing as a different faction's character doesn't really affect much beyond...
--- the style / appearance of a character
--- where you start
--- you starting skills
Any character can train up any skills, use any ships / weapons (once those skills have been trained), and can fly anywhere in the game (provided your standings are either neutral or "good"... which they start out as for all characters) without suffering any penalty or losing out on "race specific" bonuses.

2. Because only limited number of skills are needed to perform certain activities (e.g. harvesting, building, hauling, "playing" on the market) many people like to briefly train up "alt characters" for mundane activities that require them to do or go places they don't want their "main character" to do or go.

For example: I have three characters on this account.
- Fluffers here is my main and is more or less constantly training.
- Then I have another character whose "job" is to sit in a station and manipulate market orders (took only 1 month to train up).
- And then I have another character who job is to build stuff and haul (took 3 months to train up).
- I keep all of them separate from each other because Fluffers here is a DIRTY DIRTY pirate and is not welcome in high-sec space anymore... and I don't want my other characters to be "tainted" in their dealings with others by being associated with a character who is a self-styled mass murderer.

Jessica Pixel wrote:
Plex is what, the instruction manual for this game is bigger than a university library. My guess is Plex is a time consumption method that once paid for you have to start earning it again to payf or it again and no real game time comes in right? if so your right this game is not for me.

History lesson:

Once upon a time, Real Money Trading used to be a problem here in EVE. Inflation was a problem (bigger than it is today) and prices for items fluctuated and often cratered due to the massive amount of harvesting and "firesales" that were happening to facilitate RMT.

Then the DEVs got an idea. Why not offer up an 30-day gametime token that could be bought with real money and sold in-game? Players would decide how much 30 days of gametime was worth to them using in-game currency.

This token (henceforth known as PLEX) had extremely positive results.
- it offered players who earned stupid amounts of in-game currency a way to essentially play for "free"
- it offered a way for players who wanted quick cash a legitimate way to get fast in-game currency without the risk of being banned
- it did not add any additional in-game currency to the game (see: a player pays for the [potential] subscription of another in exchange for in-game currency)
- with each in-game transaction, it actually removed some in-game currency from the game through in-game market fees and taxes (cutting inflation down a bit)
- it kept money in the company's pockets


New services have been added to PLEX as the years have gone on.
Before, you could only train up one character at a time (see: you had to pause one character's training to start training on another). Now you can train up multiple characters for a short period of time (which is really the idea... because this game is a HUGE fan of forcing people to make "tradeoffs).
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
#7 - 2015-09-07 19:32:30 UTC
Jessica Pixel wrote:
Bumblefck wrote:
Jessica Pixel wrote:
I i saw three slot with four fractions



fraction lazor rouge drones!



CCP deliberately overcharges people who saying any and/or all of these words. What?


Seriously though, there already is a solution - pay for the alt training privilege by earning ISK in-game and pay with PLEX. If you can accept either this or coughing up and paying RL money, great. If not, I would suggest that this maybe isn't the game for you - instant gratification isn't always available.


Plex is what, the instruction manual for this game is bigger than a university library. My guess is Plex is a time consumption method that once paid for you have to start earning it again to payf or it again and no real game time comes in right? if so your right this game is not for me.



If you do decide to leave...contracting what belongings you might have accumulated to me in exchange for the help that has been provided would be most appreciated.

PLEX is what you can buy, in game, and effectively avoid paying RL money for. Yes, it's used to extend your game time, but it can also be used to activate a training queue on another character on your account.

These are the facts. EVE is a pretty generous game, in terms of what you get for your money, and the ability to buy game time with in-game currency is pretty unprecedented. For that alone it gets my vote, but you also have the handy side benefit of it being a really deep, interesting experience populated with - for the most part - interesting individuals who I'm pretty sure that you won't find in other games.

I'm sorry that you're not happy with the game, but if these are your feelings, it's good you've caught them earlier and so you bow out before you invest any more time in a game that you're not comfortable sticking with.

Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .

Bumble's Space Log

Zihao
Doomheim
#8 - 2015-09-07 19:48:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Zihao
I also buy things without reading what they are or how they work.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#9 - 2015-09-07 21:01:08 UTC
Zihao wrote:
I also buy things without reading what they are or how they work.

I actually do do that all the time.

I have an engraving tool,dremil,4 neon halogen lights and two airsoft rifles and a set of ceramic knives to my name for no appreciable reason,

all of which have done nothing more than give me increasingly creative and stupid ways in which to injure myself.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#10 - 2015-09-07 22:22:20 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Zihao wrote:
I also buy things without reading what they are or how they work.

I actually do do that all the time.

I have an engraving tool,dremil,4 neon halogen lights and two airsoft rifles and a set of ceramic knives to my name for no appreciable reason,

all of which have done nothing more than give me increasingly creative and stupid ways in which to injure myself.

....

I have a $200 tablet that I bought a few years ago and never used. I can't be bothered to learn never figured out how use Microsoft's mobile UI.

It now serves as a rather decent paperweight for my many important papers and documents (wasn't "paper" supposed to be phased out by today's digital age? What happened???).
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#11 - 2015-09-07 22:48:36 UTC
eve is a rather nice one character game, given in time your character can do everything, and isn't faction locked. in other games your characters are rather limited to whatever roles they were granted by the devs, and whatever faction you pick. There usually aren't even mechanics available to branch out. Rift was at least nice as most characters could do at least two roles.

also imo if I want an alt I want it on a separate account so I can have both logged in at the same time. that said I barely ever have all my alts logged in. and the ones that are on account low sp alts... well I haven't touched them since June. I can tell because they are all in a corp and that was the last time they installed industry jobs.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter

Lulu Lunette
Savage Moon Society
#12 - 2015-09-07 23:10:56 UTC
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
eve is a rather nice one character game, given in time your character can do everything, and isn't faction locked. in other games your characters are rather limited to whatever roles they were granted by the devs, and whatever faction you pick. There usually aren't even mechanics available to branch out. Rift was at least nice as most characters could do at least two roles.

also imo if I want an alt I want it on a separate account so I can have both logged in at the same time. that said I barely ever have all my alts logged in. and the ones that are on account low sp alts... well I haven't touched them since June. I can tell because they are all in a corp and that was the last time they installed industry jobs.


I didn't expect the immersion in this game to be as good as it is. Agreed so much with what you're saying about Eve being a nice one character game. I love being able to get in lots of different ships for different jobs, having just enough manufacturing to make the BPC's I find in exploration and after a bit of doing everything I've finally plugged in Caldari Frigate V because I hear the Kestrel is good for beginning lowsec PVP.

Just did the math real quick and assuming plex is still at or around 1 billion, you'd have to make 33 million a day to be able to play 'for free'.

I still love life in Eve without an alt but maybe that would be better for you if you have figured out a nice income in game.

@lunettelulu7

Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#13 - 2015-09-07 23:16:40 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Zihao wrote:
I also buy things without reading what they are or how they work.

I actually do do that all the time.

I have an engraving tool,dremil,4 neon halogen lights and two airsoft rifles and a set of ceramic knives to my name for no appreciable reason,

all of which have done nothing more than give me increasingly creative and stupid ways in which to injure myself.

....

I have a $200 tablet that I bought a few years ago and never used. I can't be bothered to learn never figured out how use Microsoft's mobile UI.

It now serves as a rather decent paperweight for my many important papers and documents (wasn't "paper" supposed to be phased out by today's digital age? What happened???).

Dispite what the digital age has brought us, sometimes you just need the satisfaction of doing it by hand.<----wip
Mephiztopheleze
Laphroaig Inc.
#14 - 2015-09-07 23:44:53 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Zihao wrote:
I also buy things without reading what they are or how they work.

I actually do do that all the time.

I have an engraving tool,dremil,4 neon halogen lights and two airsoft rifles and a set of ceramic knives to my name for no appreciable reason,

all of which have done nothing more than give me increasingly creative and stupid ways in which to injure myself.


You don't know true pain until you've applied a Dremel to the soft fleshy bit between thumb and forefinger.....

Occasional Resident Newbie Correspondent for TMC: http://themittani.com/search/site/mephiztopheleze

This is my Forum Main. My Combat Alt is sambo Inkura

Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#15 - 2015-09-07 23:53:39 UTC
Mephiztopheleze wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Zihao wrote:
I also buy things without reading what they are or how they work.

I actually do do that all the time.

I have an engraving tool,dremil,4 neon halogen lights and two airsoft rifles and a set of ceramic knives to my name for no appreciable reason,

all of which have done nothing more than give me increasingly creative and stupid ways in which to injure myself.


You don't know true pain until you've applied a Dremel to the soft fleshy bit between thumb and forefinger.....

why would you say that, I think I need a drink after reading that. I've never done it but just the thought of doing it... NOPE!!!

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter

Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#16 - 2015-09-08 00:32:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
I just closed my alt training account. It was an account dedicated to training alts that needed longer period of training. Example: last alt trained had 88.9 millions skill points.

Of course, I have to pay $20 (or two PLEX) to transfer the alts off the account. [I used the cash option.]

I've used PLEX to train other alts with dual training. Longest was 6 months.

Of course there are deals that can be used to create alts, like Buddy Invites to yourself, and Power of Two, etc.
Tiddle Jr
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#17 - 2015-09-08 00:39:02 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Zihao wrote:
I also buy things without reading what they are or how they work.

I actually do do that all the time.

I have an engraving tool,dremil,4 neon halogen lights and two airsoft rifles and a set of ceramic knives to my name for no appreciable reason,

all of which have done nothing more than give me increasingly creative and stupid ways in which to injure myself.

....

I have a $200 tablet that I bought a few years ago and never used. I can't be bothered to learn never figured out how use Microsoft's mobile UI.

It now serves as a rather decent paperweight for my many important papers and documents (wasn't "paper" supposed to be phased out by today's digital age? What happened???).


Shah you have a chance to get in touch with devs of that tablet and provide your feedback of positive experience where tablet could be used aside from it's main purpose. They should add that into manual for sure. At least we could say that tablets run on MS are usefull.

"The message is that there are known knowns. There are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say there are things that we now know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know" - CCP

Tiddle Jr
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#18 - 2015-09-08 00:45:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Tiddle Jr
Meanwhile back to the topic.

OP can you imagine for a second that a few years back there was no such feature as simoltaneous training on the same account. Shocked

The we been given with that option. So CCP is doing slight progress, lets wait few more years and we could have what you are asking for Roll

"The message is that there are known knowns. There are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say there are things that we now know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know" - CCP

Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#19 - 2015-09-08 00:55:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Hasikan Miallok
Lulu Lunette wrote:


Just did the math real quick and assuming plex is still at or around 1 billion, you'd have to make 33 million a day to be able to play 'for free'.



Yeah there is this odd assumption many new people have that by your second month in the game you should be able to PLEX your account for free. I am sure that is possible if you excel at scamming or station trading but as a new character trying to PLEX your subs will just mean you never have any ISK.

Assuming you are NOT station trading, longterm single account plexing options usually involve:

- some lowsec PI which using all three characters, each with 6 planets, shipping P2s gives a passive income between 10 and 25 mill per day.
- level IV mission running which can reliably return 30 mill to 80 mill an hour depending on skills so an hour a day
- incursions which are more like 100 mill plus an hour though you lose a bit getting there and waiting for a fleet

I suspect PLEX costs are getting to a point that mining and exploration are going to be stretching it for plex.

Though hisec mining in highsec in a procurer in a quiet system while afk doing something else is in a sense "free" money and a procurer can pay for itself in a few hours mining, so you can afford to lose the odd one to gankers and still be ahead. Still you would need to mine for several hours every night to PLEX with a single character even in a fleet with boosts.
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#20 - 2015-09-08 01:09:20 UTC
Tiddle Jr wrote:
ShahFluffers wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Zihao wrote:
I also buy things without reading what they are or how they work.

I actually do do that all the time.

I have an engraving tool,dremil,4 neon halogen lights and two airsoft rifles and a set of ceramic knives to my name for no appreciable reason,

all of which have done nothing more than give me increasingly creative and stupid ways in which to injure myself.

....

I have a $200 tablet that I bought a few years ago and never used. I can't be bothered to learn never figured out how use Microsoft's mobile UI.

It now serves as a rather decent paperweight for my many important papers and documents (wasn't "paper" supposed to be phased out by today's digital age? What happened???).


Shah you have a chance to get in touch with devs of that tablet and provide your feedback of positive experience where tablet could be used aside from it's main purpose. They should add that into manual for sure. At least we could say that tablets run on MS are usefull.


I think they x86'd the windows RT experiment. The latest surface tablets are running normal windows on I think intel atom processors. that said I like windows 8.1 on the surface pro, should be interesting to see what win10 is like, but w/e I got time.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter

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