EVE General Discussion

I see a possible issue, but you are not really making a coherent case.
Irrelevant with what CCP does or doesn't do regarding PLEX in the store.
However, sure, if the gambling site is not an authorized PLEX seller, I could see an issue there ("possibly"), provided they are taking money from players and awarding PLEX in the exchange. I think that's more the issue, and where any such loophole could reside.

Here is a current list of authorized sites: https://secure.eveonline.com/etc.aspx
It just depends on CCP's policy regarding authorized and unauthorized PLEX selling sites. If there is a loophole and any defense against it, it would be within that.

That's kind of a silly distinction, no?

No, since we are talking EULA/TOS issues and what CCP allow under their policies versus what they don't allow.

So semantics seem to be important because it's not about us as players and totally about CCPs tolerance.

If I had a code say GD34567ABC456, is that a PLEX?

The only answer is no. It's not and no PLEX even exists until that code is activated.

If this was about whether we as players see a code as functionally the same, then my own view would be different. But this is simply about what it actually is and it isn't a PLEX and no in game asset exists.

Well he's on the authorized dealer list, so yes using out of game codes to claim PLEX in that way would be legal.

Now I could see that if someone is running a site, taking money there, then from in-game buying or trading to get a PLEX, then transferring it to that player from the site that paid money, then yeah that could likely fall into RMT.

In other words, I could farm 1b and buy a PLEX off the market in Jita, take real money from someone and then give them the PLEX in game. That would obviously be illegal RMT. No?

I think the difference with gambling sites (one that takes real money), they take in far more money than it costs to buy a PLEX. So they don't even need to actually farm to buy a PLEX, just take a portion of the money they make from a site and gift a PLEX. So it is a unique situation, not generally traditional with RMT'ing in MMO's.

One moral difference is that the traditional RMT'er can be employing sweatshop labor to RMT at slave labor cost etc. In this case though, the moral dilemma is that a third-party website is using EVE as a front to taking money from weak gambling addicts.

That is where CCP's lawyers would need to determine risk vs CCP's interest, reviewing case history and such, which is a problem internationally by the wide range of laws. In some cases, depending on local or national governments, gambling is illegal. CCP is not directly involved, yet is entangled into the process by a function if real money is being used, or even paid tokens.

And I would probably write more, but I'm just not that interested in the subject.
EVE is Dying™?

Not quite. It's not the reseller policy, it's the video monetisation one:

http://community.eveonline.com/support/policies/monetization-of-videos-and-streaming-policy/

Pretty sure example B is just as illegal as example A. No EVE Online items may be offered as prizes for gambling where real money is involved. That's one of the things that caused the shitstorm with SOMER back in the day, because they were paying their players ISK indirectly for purchasing a time code through their affiliate link. In other words, they were getting paid real money in exchange for what was essentially giving away ISK. CCP cracked down on that, so I find it very hard to believe your scenario would be ignored or allowed.

I have no idea what he does at his site, other than some streaming. I haven't been to MD's site since early UO and I used one of his map addon for UO automap (legal UO app).

I'm just referring to the official page I listed with authorized partners. However, I see no gambling sites listed on it unless I'm mistaken.

It's not Markee Dragon that is being referred to in the Reddit thread.

It's another guy that streams. He buys his codes from Markee Dragon, but otherwise there's no other involvement of MD as far as the information indicates.

MD is a registered reseller and that's where he buys his codes from.

There's not even any involvement of a gambling site as far as the information indicates. The guy streams and runs raffles/lotteries during his stream for people watching. He seems to do so according to the CCP policy on video monetisation and streaming, but some people are claiming RMT because of his lotteries.

One thing I have noticed over the years is that whenever shady stuff pops up surrounding RMT, Markee Dragon's name is always mentioned in some way. Always in some way that doesn't tie him directly to the alleged scheme, he's always 'just the registered reseller who happens to be providing the codes'.

You're kidding right. He's a registered reseller and the largest of them outside CCP themselves.

Are you really trying to imply something wrong with him just because he has a business that legitimately sells codes as authorised by CCP?

When he was swatted last week there was an article somewhere that estimated he has sold 45-50 million USD worth of codes. I don't know how accurate that is, but if it's true then it's no surprise his business name comes up. He's obviously successful.

Edit:
Evenews24 article on the swatting that contains the values above, http://evenews24.com/2015/08/28/first-day-of-youtube-gaming-markeedragon-gets-swatted/