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Stop RMT with PLEX please

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Freelancer117
So you want to be a Hero
#1 - 2015-09-06 12:34:03 UTC
Is Plex going to be an in game item only, to be used for all of CCP games services that are sold through the New Eden store ?


For me there is a big controversy going on concerning Plex and how it is used on gambling / lottery sites,

which uses real money to trade for a change to win Plex, that can be converted to isk !


By moving all the uses for Plex into the in game New Eden store,

the loophole for a(ny) real money trading for Plex, that can be converted to isk, can be stopped.


Regards, a Freelancer


PS: CCP please write your EULA/TOS so (non-legal) people can read them properly instead of having to interpret it.

Eve online is :

A) mining simulator B) glorified chatroom C) spreadsheets online

D) CCP Games Pay to Win at skill leveling, with instant gratification

http://eve-radio.com//images/photos/3419/223/34afa0d7998f0a9a86f737d6.jpg

http://bit.ly/1egr4mF
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
#2 - 2015-09-06 12:38:50 UTC
I'm not a legal person, and I can read the EULA and ToS just fine.

Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .

Bumble's Space Log
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#3 - 2015-09-06 12:43:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
PLEX can't be converted to ISK, you know…
Also, how is it RMT?

Oh, and what's your problem with the EULA?
Freelancer117
So you want to be a Hero
#4 - 2015-09-06 13:39:48 UTC
Tippia wrote:
PLEX can't be converted to ISK, you know…


WOW, just WOW

30 Day Pilot's License Extension (PLEX) is selling above 1.000.000.000 ISK

source: http://i.imgur.com/yqIV8qn.jpg

Eve online is :

A) mining simulator B) glorified chatroom C) spreadsheets online

D) CCP Games Pay to Win at skill leveling, with instant gratification

http://eve-radio.com//images/photos/3419/223/34afa0d7998f0a9a86f737d6.jpg

http://bit.ly/1egr4mF
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#5 - 2015-09-06 13:44:27 UTC
Freelancer117 wrote:
WOW, just WOW
No, EVE, actually, where you can't convert PLEX to ISK.
Do you know what the word “sell” means?


Oh, and some answers on those other two questions would be nice.
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#6 - 2015-09-06 13:45:27 UTC
Freelancer117 wrote:
Tippia wrote:
PLEX can't be converted to ISK, you know…


WOW, just WOW

30 Day Pilot's License Extension (PLEX) is selling above 1.000.000.000 ISK

source: http://i.imgur.com/yqIV8qn.jpg


What Tippia is saying is:

Before sale:

Player A: PLEX
Player B: ISK

After sale:

Player A: ISK
Player B: PLEX

The PLEX exists both before and after the sale. It's not converted to ISK. PLEX can be converted to game time, AURUM and additional training queues for example. But otherwise a sale doesn't convert it to anything else. It's still a PLEX.
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
#7 - 2015-09-06 13:47:55 UTC
Freelancer117 wrote:

WOW, just WOW





Yes, that is where failed EVE players who are perhaps a little lacking in the brain department should go. Post haste. So good you had to say it twice, right?

Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .

Bumble's Space Log
Tiberius Heth
Doomheim
#8 - 2015-09-06 13:52:19 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Freelancer117 wrote:
Tippia wrote:
PLEX can't be converted to ISK, you know…


WOW, just WOW

30 Day Pilot's License Extension (PLEX) is selling above 1.000.000.000 ISK

source: http://i.imgur.com/yqIV8qn.jpg


What Tippia is saying is:

Before sale:

Player A: PLEX
Player B: ISK

After sale:

Player A: ISK
Player B: PLEX

The PLEX exists both before and after the sale. It's not converted to ISK. PLEX can be converted to game time, AURUM and additional training queues for example. But otherwise a sale doesn't convert it to anything else. It's still a PLEX.



It's diving into semantics focussing on a choice words while fully understanding what the person wanted to convey, in order to derail the conversation.

On the subject: Out of game Plex transactions are an easy way to engage in RMT and create a grey area where none should be. They should be kept in game only.
TigerXtrm
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#9 - 2015-09-06 14:04:40 UTC
Quote:
For me there is a big controversy going on concerning Plex and how it is used on gambling / lottery sites,

which uses real money to trade for a change to win Plex, that can be converted to isk !


Pretty sure the practice you're describing here is already illegal and has always been illegal. If you're paying some site real money for a CHANCE to win a PLEX that's not only illegal, it's also incredibly stupid.

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Omar Alharazaad
New Eden Tech Support
#10 - 2015-09-06 14:15:49 UTC
Surely this means that we ought to simply do away with PLEX. Will solve all sorts of problems.
Just, um... lemme get my tear barrels ready if it happens.

Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.
Markus Reese
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#11 - 2015-09-06 17:18:43 UTC
Omar Alharazaad wrote:
Surely this means that we ought to simply do away with PLEX. Will solve all sorts of problems.
Just, um... lemme get my tear barrels ready if it happens.


See eve before plex, it was a lot worse.

Gambling site getting money and person getting plex? That already is a violation of EULA since are profiting off Eve. If you know of said sites, report it. CCP has legal dept to do the rest. If you use said site, well, accept permabanned with dignity. If want isk for dollars, buy your plex from CCP.

(you refering to reader, no OP)

To quote Lfod Shi

The ratting itself is PvE. Getting away with it is PvP.
Freelancer117
So you want to be a Hero
#12 - 2015-09-06 17:49:54 UTC
Omar Alharazaad wrote:
Surely this means that we ought to simply do away with PLEX. Will solve all sorts of problems.
Just, um... lemme get my tear barrels ready if it happens.


The problem is not Plex, it is Plex being used as an out of game item by CCP games.
See the yellow question in the first post, and Tippia please take read this, is linked to:

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6013325#post6013325

Since trading real money for in game items is forbidden, gambling / betting sites are circumventing the EULA by using Plex.
CCP should remedy this by better writing the EULA/TOS, to make it understandable for everyone this should not happen.

CCP games even has promised in the past to put the uses of Plex in to the New Eden store, and so long as that is not done
the loophole for trading real money for a chance to win Plex, which can THEN be converted into isk in game, is still there !

source: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4582725#post4582725

Regards, a Freelancer

Eve online is :

A) mining simulator B) glorified chatroom C) spreadsheets online

D) CCP Games Pay to Win at skill leveling, with instant gratification

http://eve-radio.com//images/photos/3419/223/34afa0d7998f0a9a86f737d6.jpg

http://bit.ly/1egr4mF
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#13 - 2015-09-06 17:56:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Freelancer117 wrote:
The problem is not Plex, it is Plex being used as an out of game item by CCP games.
See the yellow question in the first post, and Tippia please take read this, is linked to:

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6013325#post6013325
I read it. The language is atrocious and it doesn't really explain what the problem is.

How is it RMT? What's the problem with the EULA? “They're using PLEX” is the most worthless and uninformative description ever, and the simple fact is that you cannot convert a PLEX to ISK. And yet, that's all you keep saying.

Repeating the same thing over and over again does not actually clarify anything or fill in any of the gaping information holes that raise these questions.
Zihao
Doomheim
#14 - 2015-09-06 18:34:13 UTC
Why would you want to stop a mutually beneficial exchange of game-time and isk between consenting adults which also benefits the producer of this video game we enjoy?
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#15 - 2015-09-06 19:30:09 UTC
There is no out of game gambling going on with PLEX. They are using PLEX time codes. Those can only be created with real money. There is no way to get a PLEX time code with ISK. Hence gambling with a PLEX time code is not RMT.

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TigerXtrm
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#16 - 2015-09-06 20:16:16 UTC
Freelancer117 wrote:
Omar Alharazaad wrote:
Surely this means that we ought to simply do away with PLEX. Will solve all sorts of problems.
Just, um... lemme get my tear barrels ready if it happens.


The problem is not Plex, it is Plex being used as an out of game item by CCP games.
See the yellow question in the first post, and Tippia please take read this, is linked to:

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6013325#post6013325

Since trading real money for in game items is forbidden, gambling / betting sites are circumventing the EULA by using Plex.
CCP should remedy this by better writing the EULA/TOS, to make it understandable for everyone this should not happen.

CCP games even has promised in the past to put the uses of Plex in to the New Eden store, and so long as that is not done
the loophole for trading real money for a chance to win Plex, which can THEN be converted into isk in game, is still there !

source: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4582725#post4582725

Regards, a Freelancer



How about you actually link us to a site that is 'RMTing with PLEX' according to you. Like Tippia said, you're being incredibly vague.

My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things!

My Website - Blogs, Livestreams & Forums
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
#17 - 2015-09-06 21:02:41 UTC
TigerXtrm wrote:

How about you actually link us to a site that is 'RMTing with PLEX' according to you. Like Tippia said, you're being incredibly vague.




Of course you realise that you're wasting your breath, as his vagueness is all that's shielding him between humiliation and...well, just that, really.

Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .

Bumble's Space Log
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#18 - 2015-09-06 21:09:00 UTC
my best guess is he is saying gambling sites buy PLEX with rl $, and then lottery them off. which is really how all PLEX get in game, only instead of using a lottery to give them out they just get sold on the market. Also that doesn't really make sense to me as usually the point of a lottery is for the organizer to make isk, IE sell a 1bil plex, but raise 1.2 billion in ticket sales.

the main issue with RMT is going the other way, IE sell your isk/ples for rl $. As long as the gamblers are only using in game assets to play it should all be good.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#19 - 2015-09-06 21:11:05 UTC
Bumblefck wrote:
TigerXtrm wrote:

How about you actually link us to a site that is 'RMTing with PLEX' according to you. Like Tippia said, you're being incredibly vague.




Of course you realise that you're wasting your breath, as his vagueness is all that's shielding him between humiliation and...well, just that, really.

The Reddit thread linked to in his other forum post looks like a bit of a beat up so that someone can rattle their pitchforks.

Seems the OP of the Reddit thread didn't really understand what they saw and Freelancer has jumped on the wagon.
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#20 - 2015-09-06 21:19:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
my best guess is he is saying gambling sites buy PLEX with rl $, and then lottery them off. which is really how all PLEX get in game, only instead of using a lottery to give them out they just get sold on the market. Also that doesn't really make sense to me as usually the point of a lottery is for the organizer to make isk, IE sell a 1bil plex, but raise 1.2 billion in ticket sales.

the main issue with RMT is going the other way, IE sell your isk/ples for rl $. As long as the gamblers are only using in game assets to play it should all be good.

It seems to be an Ironbank/IWantIsk issue.

Some guy on twitch streams games and runs lotteries for people who watch his stream. Everyone can only purchase 1 ticket per lottery with tokens they receive just for watching his stream; and all have an equal chance of winning.

However, for streamers that subscribe to his channel, he buys codes from Markee Dragon and then runs a subscriber only lottery at the end of his stream. Out of game asset lottery and seems to be in line with CCP policy.

Of course, CCP can change their policy at anytime, but this is just a beat up from the look of it.
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