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Best T1 or navy version for L4 with low skills?
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Starow Saraki
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1 - 2015-09-04 23:22:51 UTC
Hi, i've been playing a bit and got up to flying BS.

I would like to know what would be the best low skill battle ship for doing L4 reasonably fast.

I'm currently flying amarr and caldari, but i don't mind branching out to something else.

I would like to use turret and not missile, i don't like the feel of them.

And i'm flying in amarr space.

So, what would you guys suggest? And what would you suggest i aim toward after (like faction BS)
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#2 - 2015-09-04 23:40:33 UTC
The Navy Raven is extremely forgiving to fly with low skills, and as your skills increase, you can easily reduce the tank and increase the tank until it's a pretty fierce NPC murderer.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Starow Saraki
State War Academy
Caldari State
#3 - 2015-09-04 23:42:34 UTC
Is there a similar ship that use turret? or the turrets are really skill intensive? and after the navy raven what do you suggest?
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#4 - 2015-09-05 00:12:38 UTC
Turret BS are much more skill intensive IMO.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Kitty Bear
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#5 - 2015-09-05 00:13:30 UTC
Each faction has a good T1 battleship that will run L4's easily, eg Dominix, Raven etc.

Turrets are no more skill intensive than missiles or drones, each weapon system has it's own support skills that increase effectiveness. Those support skills raise one of 3(4) areas

-Damage Application
-Raw Damage
-Effective Range
-Cap Drain

(Cap Drain doesn't apply to missiles, projectiles & drones)

If you want to you can chose one of several directions from a standard hull.

-Empire Faction
-Pirate Faction
-Marauder

each choice gives it's own benefit and own drawback
eg pirate faction hulls require 2 racial ship command skills
Starow Saraki
State War Academy
Caldari State
#6 - 2015-09-05 00:16:16 UTC
Between a navy apoc, a navy raven, or domi, or something minmatar, wich one would be best suited for running amarr mission
Mikkir
SHINKETSU Inc.
#7 - 2015-09-05 00:43:14 UTC
Out of that list I think that minmatar ships are the best choice.

Capless guns, damage selection on ammo, and leads into the mach.

The navy raven is probably second, but you said you didn't want to use missiles. And honestly, the navy scorpion is much more friendly to low sp pilots because of the tank bonus.

Generally speaking amarr ships tend to be skill intensive because of how much cap they use. They also do less than ideal damage to minmatar/angels because of em based damage.
Starow Saraki
State War Academy
Caldari State
#8 - 2015-09-05 00:50:46 UTC
What about pirate ship? the mach is the best? or something like the rattle snake, nightmare?
Mikkir
SHINKETSU Inc.
#9 - 2015-09-05 00:58:22 UTC
Starow Saraki wrote:
What about pirate ship? the mach is the best? or something like the rattle snake, nightmare?


The mach is the best for blitzing missions (only finishing objective and leaving). and the rattlesnake has beastly DPS for clearing rooms, but they all take a ton of skill points and money to fit out and fly at that level.

The nightmare is a really good incursion ship because it doesn't have to rep locally and doesn't get punished for being em based damage, but I haven't heard of it being a monster mission running ship. Could be wrong though.
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2015-09-05 01:00:12 UTC
domi requires least skills, brain, effort. It might be slower than other options later on but imo it's the best entry level mission runner.

Also drone skills transfer over to almost any ship you fly, same can't be said about missiles/turrets.

Art of Explosions
Anize Oramara
WarpTooZero
#11 - 2015-09-05 03:03:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Anize Oramara
Stop.

Amarr missions have tracking disruption, especially bad in blockade, recon and any other sansha and blood mission. This is particularly frustrating when playing a projectile ship that lives in falloff. Laser ships fare better especially because of the damage type.

If you are going to live in amarr permanently I'd go for one of the following: Any of the marauders (Preference on Paladin) to counter the TD. Next would be either a fleet Typhoon (Missiles & Sentries), Rattlesnake (Either cruise+Sentries or Rapid Heavies+Heavies/gecko) since neither of those are affected by TD. The Armageddon is a cruise/sentry boat as well and you can use it while transitioning into the paladin. Lastly the Navy Apoc or the Abandon if you want to go lasers with tracking comps to counter TD.

I used to mission exclusively in Amarr space using Rokh/Raven/Navy Raven/Maelstrom and eventually Vargur. TD will make you pull your hair out if you're in a projectile boat until you get Marauders.

Domi will work too. Hyperion might work. Navy Domi is more gun orientated iirc.

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#12 - 2015-09-05 06:48:24 UTC
turret bs aren't too bad. although t1/navy laser bs aren't all that good. I'd suggest a nightmare, which currently costs less than some navy bs.

for the most part you can face tank all the missions with an undersized booster. Its even cap stable with cap implants, although might be a better idea to just throw a cap injector on instead of the cap recharger to get used to using one. or you can MJD fit it and plonk enemies at 100km. or find a standard fit that fits a ton of tracking comps/enhancers and an xl booster burst tank fed with a cap injector.

most of my nightmare fits are from before the latest round of pirate bs rebalancing, so I lazily threw a damage control or a tracking enhancer in the last lowslot, could probably get a number of different mods there instead.

[Nightmare, Pithum lazy]
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Tracking Enhancer II
Damage Control II

Pithum C-Type Medium Shield Booster
Shield Boost Amplifier II
Cap Recharger II
Republic Fleet 100MN Afterburner
Thermic Dissipation Field II
EM Ward Field II
EM Ward Field II

Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]

Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I

Hammerhead II x5

[Nightmare, MJD Lulz]
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Tracking Enhancer II
Damage Control II

Pith B-Type X-Large Shield Booster
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range Script
Large Micro Jump Drive

Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Auto Targeting System II
Small Tractor Beam II

Large Energy Locus Coordinator II
Large Energy Locus Coordinator II
Large Low Friction Nozzle Joints I

Hobgoblin II x5
Curator II x2

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#13 - 2015-09-05 06:53:35 UTC
Mikkir wrote:
The mach is the best for blitzing missions (only finishing objective and leaving). but they all take a ton of skill points and money to fit out and fly at that level.

The nightmare is a really good incursion ship because it doesn't have to rep locally and doesn't get punished for being em based damage, but I haven't heard of it being a monster mission running ship. Could be wrong though.


mach is really the only bs worth talking about for blitzing, the warp speed is just too good. not to mention the damage selection, range and alpha with arties, or face melt dps with acs.

in amarr space the nightmare works rather well. I ran one for a long time. The TDs never really bothered me too much, but I was in a blood region rather than sansha region. I've heard the sansha are far more intense with their tds. Only thing really is that it sucks for the occasional angels extra you get, but can always just decline it.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
The Bigpuns
United Standings Improvement Agency
#14 - 2015-09-05 10:26:27 UTC
If you're a low skill character, you fly amarr and caldari, and you want to use turrets instead of missiles, a cap boosted nightmare would probably be your best bet, or armageddon (plain or navy). With low skills, mjd and long range guns is your safest choice.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#15 - 2015-09-05 11:05:22 UTC
Starow Saraki wrote:
Between a navy apoc, a navy raven, or domi, or something minmatar, wich one would be best suited for running amarr mission

i ran a navy apocalypse for ages with crappy skills and it was fairly good, micro jumpdrive out and snipe as they come into you.

fyi dont use meta pulse lasers, use beams until you can get t2 guns, then spec for pulseBlink

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
#16 - 2015-09-05 11:07:29 UTC
Anize Oramara wrote:
Stop.

Amarr missions have tracking disruption, especially bad in blockade, recon and any other sansha and blood mission. This is particularly frustrating when playing a projectile ship that lives in falloff. Laser ships fare better especially because of the damage type.



Arties may be one thing; ACs are quite another, and they don't suffer nearly as much as Tachs or Megapulses would.


Quote:
I used to mission exclusively in Amarr space using Rokh/Raven/Navy Raven/Maelstrom and eventually Vargur. TD will make you pull your hair out if you're in a projectile boat until you get Marauders.




I have an AC Mach and I mission in Amarr space; for blitzing or (on those few occasions when the mood grabs me) for total completion, it still works a dream. My Paladin is slowly gathering dust now.

Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .

Bumble's Space Log
Gunrunner1775
Empire Hooligans
#17 - 2015-09-05 11:23:25 UTC
for Navy Faction, i personaly LOVE the navy scorpion.... can fit a massive tank, way over tanked for most missions, missiles allow for selectable damage type and decent damage output, plenty of med / low slots,
Tohkat Sinawi
Sinawi Exploration Corp
#18 - 2015-09-05 14:24:43 UTC
I come from the same background that you do - Caldari / Amarr with a preference toward lasers, but skilled primarily for missiles.

For L4 mission running in Amarr space, pre-marauder, you have two options, in my opinion: 1) Caldari Navy Raven, 2) Nightmare

1) Caldari Navy Raven

  • Shield Tanked
  • Strong tank if you want it to be
  • Pick and choose ammo
  • Great range
  • You can use the missiles to help your drones take down frigs if things get hairy.


2) Nightmare

  • Shield Tanked
  • Perfect dmg against Sansha/BR/Drones
  • Much more difficult time with frigates - rely on and care for your drones here.
  • Great range


My experience with the two: L4s have WAY too many frigates!! This has forced me into using the CNR since my drones tend to get eaten up if I just keep them out 100% of the time. I, basically, overtank the CNR and kill everything basically standing still. This makes looting/salvaging a quick and easy process.

The Nightmare on the other hand can't handle frigates for squat. Instead of brawling, I use an MJD and a sniper fit and pop everything from range - rarely does anything get within 40km of me when doing this. The only problem with this one is that the wrecks are far more spread out and it makes looting/salvaging more of a chore... but that's the trade-off: its DPS is FAR higher than the CNR for faster completion times... plus, you know, lazors.

I've tried all kinds of fits on the Nightmare and this one has proven to be the most successful, allowing me to pop frigates from range, even using the high dmg tachy's.

If you want an armor tanked laser ship... well, I'm still working on those skills myself. It'll be a while before I'm skilled enough to be able to hop in and test 'em out the way that I've vetted each of the above. While the CNR is a fairly boring ship, it's also popular. The thing is without a doubt, effective. A Rattlesnake may very well be the best of both worlds, though, in the end - solid cruises, sufficient tank, and stronger drones. That may very well be the way to go when all is said and done.
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#19 - 2015-09-05 18:11:20 UTC
Bumblefck wrote:
I have an AC Mach and I mission in Amarr space; for blitzing or (on those few occasions when the mood grabs me) for total completion, it still works a dream. My Paladin is slowly gathering dust now.

I have a 6% energy turret implant... I might just rip it out and replace, because the mach just does a better job. Part of that is that I'm not in amarr space anymore, in amarr space there are still a few good paladin missions, although part of that might just be I didn't blitz them (aka mining misappropriation (something like: 12m bounty, 6m reward+bonus, 7-8k lp <10 mins), and blockade (~20m tick plus nice reward+bonus, and max LP, although I should probably try blitzing it)).

ah well, its slot 10, there isn't really a good implant for blitzing there anyways, think best case a LP-100x implant saves me a round or two, especially since I almost exclusively run burner missions now.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#20 - 2015-09-05 18:19:50 UTC
Tohkat Sinawi wrote:
The Nightmare on the other hand can't handle frigates for squat.

Nightmare ... allowing me to pop frigates from range, even using the high dmg tachy's.

I snipped a bunch, but your post goes from can't handle frigs to pops em with one shot from one gun (at least that is what I assume you mean as it's how I've used a nightmare for a long time). It's all about how you use it Twisted

the main reason I love turret boats is that they can deal with frigs, just zonk them on approach. A CNR's missiles generally can't, or if they can you are using a whole volley or two, or three? Or possibly switching to precision missiles, I've never used them.

back when I was pirate full time I had an alt in a Nightmare, with somewhat low skills, and we didn't even have MJDs.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
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