EVE General Discussion

That's generally because you only buy one of each skill book. You're talking about blowing everything you own on NPC goods, though, which will quickly empty out their stock and drastically alter their pricing.

Most, maybe. EVE? Less so. But sure, you can run the game that way if you have no imagination — you'll quit before long, though.

Not run out as in “don't have any more skills to get” — run out as in “the skills no longer do anything for you”. You're not allowed to get anything from the market or through industry, remember? You're stuck with a handful of reward ships, civilian equipment and newbie-rat loot. You're only ever doing one thing, and that one thing is designed so you can do it without any real skills at all. You're not actually progressing anywhere or consuming any content.

Yes. It says more by virtue of being more precise. Rather than being vague in that the game seems to be everything, calling it a PvP game makes it very clear that there are some things you should not expect from it, and thereby differentiates itself from what you might expect from the genre. Rather than setting up some ultimately disappointing expectation of providing PvE alongside PvP, as one might expect, it kills that assumption outright.

Think of it this way: the descriptions we offer are both too short to not require a follow-up. So which one positions you best to actually go into a proper description of the game?

“EVE is a diverse sandbox with interspersed PvE and PvP mechanics.”
“Interspersed how?”
“It has missions and crafting and all that stuff, but it's all in a PvP sandbox environment.”
“So I can choose to just run quests with my guild if I like?”
“Well, you can try, but people can PvP you at any time.”
“But if it's a sandbox, can't I choose?”
“Again, you can try, but the other guys gets to choose too and might choose to come after you for no apparent reason.”
“So it's all PvP?”
“Nononono… or yes, kind of…” [insert long spiel about how you're never safe and you're always competing]
[newbie zones out half-way through, comes into the game expecting standard themepark fare, and is ganked on the Jita gate]


“EVE is a PvP game.”
“What, so it's nothing but shooting each other?”
“No, it has all the regular stuff, but you are always competing against other players — combat is just one of many options.”
“So what are the other options?”
[insert not quite as long spiel about the 4–5 different main methods of competition]
[newbie comes into the game with the understanding that he's expected to compete]

In short, describing it as something other than a PvP game just leads to a lot of “no […] except […] but” hemming and hawing before you arrive at just saying that it's a PvP game, with all that this entails.

I have a dream, that one day, everyone in GD will accept the simple truth that Lucas is just mad because his cheat multibox mining fleet setup got banned and he is just trooling the forums since.

You wanted a definition as it applies to EVE. Anythig short of that and you would simply have claimed it does not apply. I gave you a clear definition and examples and you simply dismissed them.

The funny thing is, at no point have I suggested that none of the activities fit into PvE or PvP categories, either, as I keep stating it's a subcategory. You are trying to prove it's PvP or PvE thus can't possibly be "competitive PvE" except that's exactly what it is. It's a more accurate method of describing a particular type of mechanic.

Clearly you understand that sub-divisions exist within a definition.

And by simply saying "it's a PvP game" you're not telling them the truth, you're giving them a cut down version of it.

Coming from you that means less than nothing considering your posting history.

What does my organisation have to do with my posting?

You are in fact telling them the ONLY truth of Eve.

I frequently buy whole stacks of skillbooks, and the price remains the same. That said, most skillbooks would be several years down the line at the income rates achieved in a rookie system.

Most, maybe. EVE? Less so. But sure, you can run the game that way if you have no imagination — you'll quit before long, though.

So... That doesn't mean I can't level up all of my skills anyway. Besides, by reprocessing rat loot you could probably work your way up slowly but surely to a battleship at the very least, even if it were 1 megacyte at a time. For that maxed out with all support skills at 5 plus all of the support skills would take longer than capping a WoW character.

Except it's not more precise. Saying it is jus ta PvP game makes it sound like World of Tanks. Saying it's a sandbox with interspersed PvP and PvE mechanics makes it sound like exactly what it is. I think you're describing what you wish EVE was, rather than what it is.

LOL so in your made up conversations where I state my definition then suddenly become unclear while talking to what appears to be an idiot, I come off worse. We can both do this:

“EVE is a diverse sandbox with interspersed PvE and PvP mechanics.”
“Interspersed how?”
“It's got a variety of PvE and PvP mechanics with PvP always effectively flagged on and a player driven economy”
“Oh wow, that sounds amazing! Lots of choice about how to play.”

vs

“EVE is a PvP game.”
“What, so it's battle game like World of Tanks? **** THAT!”
[newbie disconnects and goes off to play Elite because it's a sandbox with interspered PvE and PvP mecahnics]

No, it doesn't lead to a lot of “no […] except […] but” hemming and hawing, certainly no more than If you tell them it's a PvP game then have to backtrack to inform them that there's more to it that just shooting each other. Amusingly, straight off the bat on your side of the mock conversations you've already had to say "No..." to reverse a misunderstanding from your original description, so I suppose I should just thank you for proving me right.

The esteemed panel of your peers here recognises your concerns, has read and considered them all.
Can you honestly say you have reciprocated the same in lieu of backpedalling?

You are probably correct that many players, mistakenly, think EVE is a sandbox in which they can PvE in isolation and impugnity, without player intervention, as you do. That they are upset when this is not the case, when their sandcastle gets steamrolled by laughing belligerents, and then defecated upon, is understandable inlight of the testimony you have provided.

Unwittingly, they erred into that place on the MMO map that is marked "Here be dragons...", unprepared.
Unfortunately, it was people like you who led them to this false expectation by proclaiming::
"Sure! YOu can competetive PvE plenty in EVE! Its like WOw in spaceships!"

Instead, you should have told them the truth.
That not only is the learning curve encyclopedic and as vertical as a Harrier's takeoff, but that everyone here will as soon eat you alive, as look at you.

That was bad of you... Look how unhappy they are as a result... You misled them. You lied to them.

The lesson learned from that, is that the essential PvP nature of this game needs to be more vociferously, directly and concretely impressed and advertised upon potential and new players, with absolutely no room for doubt, in a way they will understand and which forms their expectations realistically.

Furthermore, your testimony as demonstrated, that the essentially PvP related risk, competition and player interconnectivity of EVE are its strongest and most defining selling points, and could do with more development and focus towards that, as what make it truly shine in the MMO market.

EVE should take its rightful crown and throne, by hook or crook, as the most competetive and risky game in existance.
As the End-Boss of all MMOs.

Thank you for providing supporting evidence towards these conclusions, albeit obtusely and reluctantly.
Your contributions are appreciated.

You must confuse me with someone else. Who said I didn't want to return ?

On the contrary. I can't play atm, but I don't want to feel excluded. Also, maybe more importantly, I paid my yearly sub in advance. I want some bang for my buck ... GD beware.

Exactly, so PvE is PvE, and shooting at the PvE player doesn't change that mechanic into PvP. It might force your PvP mechanic on them, but it doesn't change the fundamental nature of their mechanic.

So then we would be in agreement that the game is both PvE and PvP? And to be quite honest, the thousands of players that PvE every single day and don't get shot suggests to me that they can avoid it quite well.

Neither.

Wrong. There's a hell of a lot more to EVE than "PvP". Even CCP describe it as: "EVE Online is a massively multiplayer online game set 23,000 years in the future. As an elite pilot of one of the four controlling races, you will explore, build, and dominate across a universe of over 7,000 star systems. Sandbox gameplay and advanced skill-based progression provide you with a truly unique experience as you rise to power among the stars."

I can't imagine they will change their homepage to say "EVE Online is a PvP game".

There really isn't. You just have a very myopic and narrow-minded view of what PvP is.

…something that definitely does not fit the nondescript depiction of “EVE is a diverse sandbox with interspersed PvE and PvP mechanics.”

Meanwhile, in describing the game to new players, what they actually say is that “EVE Online is essentially a PvP (Player versus Player) game at its core”; that “once you enter New Eden you must consider every action you take as a form of PvP since this is the core game concept”; and that “The essential core concept of EVE Online is that it is full time PvP in a sandbox environment.”