These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Market Discussions

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Valuation of T2 BPO's
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Darion Maken
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1 - 2015-09-04 13:30:27 UTC
I'm not sure if this is the appropriate place to discuss or in Science and Industry. Moderator is free to move is I chose poorly.

My T1 BPO collection is starting to take form and now I'm looking at dipping my toe into the T2 BPO waters. I can certainly go into contracts and there are any number of BPO's for sale. What I'm lacking is the ability to understand what is a 'good' deal and what is a 'bad' deal. So a few questions to the experts here.

1. Are BPO's valued as 'collectables' and therefore don't really have a rational price (by that I mean something that translates into a ROI).
2. If they are valued by ROI, how are people calculating that? I have ISK per hour the manufacturing application for my PC and certainly can calculate a return based on a set of inputs that may or may not be realistic :-).
- What payback time are people expecting? ie: if you bought a T2 BPO, would you expect a 3 month, 6 month, multiyear payback?
- Is that payback based on blueprint copying to maximize your runs?

Any advice on how to locate, value, and purchase T2 BPO's would be appreciated. Thank you.

Darion
Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine
In Tea We Trust
#2 - 2015-09-04 13:43:32 UTC
If it is on contracts for more than a day, it's not going to be a good deal.

Generally speaking the T2 BPOs on contracts are overpriced by 50-100%.

Their value is what they fetch in a real auction, and those are few and far between.

What value they have to you is up to you to decide. I've bought hideously overpriced T2 BPOs because they had sentimental value or because they filled a space in my collection, but I wasn't expecting a great profit when I did so. I've also paid peanuts for extremely valuable T2 BPOs because the owner was clueless or didn't know how to operate contracts.

Calculate their profit levels yourself and decide what you are willing to pay for that. Then stick to your guns, don't pay more.
Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine
In Tea We Trust
#3 - 2015-09-04 13:48:59 UTC
Darion Maken wrote:
1. Are BPO's valued as 'collectables' and therefore don't really have a rational price (by that I mean something that translates into a ROI).

That would be an ecumencal matter.

Darion Maken wrote:
2. If they are valued by ROI, how are people calculating that? I have ISK per hour the manufacturing application for my PC and certainly can calculate a return based on a set of inputs that may or may not be realistic :-).

ISK per hour is pretty good, just make sure the prices it is pulling aren't broken or manipulated.

Darion Maken wrote:
- What payback time are people expecting? ie: if you bought a T2 BPO, would you expect a 3 month, 6 month, multiyear payback?

They will pay me back when I sell them, probably not before.

Darion Maken wrote:
- Is that payback based on blueprint copying to maximize your runs?

It depends on the BPO, try doing that with a T2 ammo BPO.
Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine
In Tea We Trust
#4 - 2015-09-04 15:05:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Bad Bobby
Darion Maken wrote:
Any advice on how to locate, value, and purchase T2 BPO's would be appreciated. Thank you.

Set your contracts filter to "Blueprint Original", set Sort Pages By to "Price (Highest First)" and sort the results by price descending.

Then grab your ankles and prepare to be boarded.

The other alternative is to watch for auctions in the Sell Orders forum, but beware that many of them turn in to a trolling contest.

The best prices I get are from fools that don't know what they have or from friends and contacts that decide to liquidate or leave the game and offer me their T2 BPO collection at a reasonable price.
Darion Maken
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#5 - 2015-09-04 18:00:57 UTC
Bad Bobby wrote:
Darion Maken wrote:
Any advice on how to locate, value, and purchase T2 BPO's would be appreciated. Thank you.

Set your contracts filter to "Blueprint Original", set Sort Pages By to "Price (Highest First)" and sort the results by price descending.

Then grab your ankles and prepare to be boarded.

The other alternative is to watch for auctions in the Sell Orders forum, but beware that many of them turn in to a trolling contest.

The best prices I get are from fools that don't know what they have or from friends and contacts that decide to liquidate or leave the game and offer me their T2 BPO collection at a reasonable price.


Thank you for all the input. I was really hoping there was some better system to search for BPO's than start at the top and work your way down. Ugh....hopefully CCP does the contract refresh and makes it easier/more intuitive to use.

Darion
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#6 - 2015-09-04 21:20:28 UTC
Darion Maken wrote:
Thank you for all the input. I was really hoping there was some better system to search for BPO's than start at the top and work your way down. Ugh....hopefully CCP does the contract refresh and makes it easier/more intuitive to use.

Darion

if you are only looking for t2 bpos then there usually aren't many to sort through at any given time. and if you have a specific one in mind, or a price range you can set it in the filters.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
0000000000ZERO0000000000
Zero Zentharis
#7 - 2015-09-04 22:40:23 UTC
Darion Maken wrote:
What payback time are people expecting? ie: if you bought a T2 BPO, would you expect a 3 month, 6 month, multiyear payback?


Millennia
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#8 - 2015-09-04 23:38:04 UTC
0000000000ZERO0000000000 wrote:
Darion Maken wrote:
What payback time are people expecting? ie: if you bought a T2 BPO, would you expect a 3 month, 6 month, multiyear payback?


Millennia

Typically T2 BPO are not valued by the payback time.

Rather, by the opportunity cost of having all that ISK sunk into a single BPO, while manufacturing from it, and then re-selling the BPO down the road.

If you re-sell at cost, your profit is the manufacturing profit minus the opportunity cost. Ideally, one hopes the BPO value appreciates too, so there is some profit there.

Consider that one can typically get 2% from a collateralized investment, so that's part of the opportunity you are missing.
Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine
In Tea We Trust
#9 - 2015-09-05 02:10:25 UTC
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
Darion Maken wrote:
Thank you for all the input. I was really hoping there was some better system to search for BPO's than start at the top and work your way down. Ugh....hopefully CCP does the contract refresh and makes it easier/more intuitive to use.

Darion
if you are only looking for t2 bpos then there usually aren't many to sort through at any given time. and if you have a specific one in mind, or a price range you can set it in the filters.

This.

Most of the time you will find all the T2 BPOs on contracts in the first half-page with the filters I suggested and the T2 BPOs themselves stand out in the contracts list due to their colour, so a 1 minute scan over is all that is needed to see if there is anything you want.

The only other tip I would give is to occasionally page through the next couple of pages of results and look for people putting up T2 BPO auctions at low start prices (like 1B). The way contract auctions work is pretty terrible, so if something is auctioned off at a low start price and outside of The Forge, you can get a bargain.
Darion Maken
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#10 - 2015-09-05 02:34:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Darion Maken
Great advice guys. Thank you. My next 100B or so is planned for - setting up sell orders - then I'll be able to play with T2's.

Darion
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#11 - 2015-09-10 06:46:40 UTC
I have a lower risk tolerance than many when it comes to risky investments.

I'm going nowhere near the T2 BPO market. If I happen to acquire one somehow, it's getting sold. (But the item it produces is getting manipulated upward first - if I came across a Flycatcher BPO, I'd be posting rumors on Reddit from untraceable accounts of a new game mechanic that would improve interdictors first, then I'd have alts come here and make similar shiptoasts).

As working capital T2 BPOs have a definite value, and I'd buy one as a capital investment if I could expect to amortize its price over 30-36 months of projected production profits. Obviously they are not even close to that ballpark - they amortize over literally decades.

The competitive advantage they offer over invention is real, but is not close to justification for the price. The only reason for the present price is a perception of perpetual capital gains.

I said this about the American housing market in 2003, FWIW. The crash didn't happen for five more years and there were plenty more capital gains to be made before then. But I feel T2 BPOs are valued well above fundamentals.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com