EVE General Discussion

It hasn't been locked because more than ever, EVE is dying and it's important we brainstorm.

This thread is a meeting of the minds.

Hahaha CQ, now THERE is something that's irrelevant if there ever was

Mean if you have to use that to support your argument you're quite literally grasping at straws.

Typo.

There's one meaning, with further subcategories. It's like how you can what white bread and wholemeal, they're still both bread.

It's not more optional in WoW than it is in EVE. If you choose to do nothing in EVE and choose to do nothing in WoW you make no impact. The moment you do anything you make an impact.

It does occur exactly the same in WoW and every other MMO, which is what makes it irrelevant. Instancing again is irrelevant. Once you're out of a WoW instance you bring with you everything you got in there which impacts the economy.

It's still in the game, isn't it?

Again though, it's not to support my argument, since the argument I'm making has nothing to do with instancing. Tippia is trying to twist the definition of instancing then use that as a way to claim that nothing in instanced dungeons in EVE affects the rest of the server, while in EVE, saving the damsel for the Nth time affects everything. In reality, both have an economic impact.

I don't know, haven't seen it in years so who's to say? Because you know, irrelevant.

I'm just gonna skip over our circular arguments on instancing which are entirely irrelevant to the point being made. You may continue to have you misunderstanding on what an instance is in a game, it's completely beside the point.

It's as optional in EVE too.

Only if you're choosing to be special and sticking everything in a single category because you might get shot. Missions are PvE. If someone shows up and shoots you, that doesn't make mission mechanics PvP, it simply means someone put your mission on hold to PvP with you. Mechanics themselves can be quite well categorised.

How is that better? Just going "It's all PvP" is not helpful, since there's clear differences in the underlying mechanics.

But that's fundamentally flawed by the fact that most people take the definition of PvP to mean "all about shooting people in the face". Just because you've redefined it as "has impact on other players" doesn't mean that someone external to the game will know that, and so they would just assume that no form of PvE exists.


Hush now Salvos.

Whoosh over your head

You're intelligent and very good at picking at the smallest haziness or inaccuracy in my arguments. I wonder if you're just training your rhetoric skills (debating for the sake of winning the argument) and not actually debating for the sake of the truth of the argument. Are you a law student ?

More like: melting of the minds.

As to instancing, it is largely irrelevant on the issue of where the definitions of PvP, PvE and the nonsense "competitive PvE" apply.

If you are in competition with other players, against their interests, you are in PvP. Any instance that includes that, constitutes PvP insofar as those competetive interactions are possible. For example even in a PvE WoW dungeon, where you compete against the AI/NPC/Environment, when the loot drops and a roll is called, every participant in that roll is involved in PvP, though the environment of the instance itself is otherwise entirely PvE.

To extend this beautifully to EVE meta, as a parallel, prolific asslicking of the GM inorder to motivate the drop goes to you, without a roll, is also PvP, as is similar meta action towards FC/CEOs in EVE.

The essential and core difference between PvE and PvP, is vested in the latter.
Any incident of competetive player interaction against the interests of others, is categorically PvP, as a unique and individuated factor of HUMAN action, not of an NPC/AI/Environment.

The purpose of these terms is to differentiate HUMAN action, from NPC/AI/Environment elements.

They are not placed as opposites on the same linear spectrum, but they are exclusional of each other.

They are two completely different concepts, largely defined simply by the absence of player competetive interaction, as PvP, from an otherwise PvE situation (which any and all virtual game worlds are inherently, as they are not real or human, whereas the players who play them, are.)

I challenge anyone to give me 3 examples of "competetive PvE" in EVE, that hold up under scrutiny as separate from and NOT either PvE or PvP.

One is already recognised as borderline, and exempt from entry, namely NPC trader action on a few items (which still is PvP as per usual trading, as this peculiar dynamic of these NPCs are a result only of player competitive action as pvp trading)