EVE General Discussion

No. EVE does not use instancing in the sense that it used in the MMO space. Period.

Instancing is a method of separating players to remove competition. It has been from the very start. EVE does not have this because it wants there to be competition between players an a shared space. If other people can visit your instance, it is no longer a proper instance — it is just a copy in an open world.

…and this does not hold true for most other games, especially not WoW.

No. Facts are not arrogance. Just saying “nu-uh” while being utterly incapable of actually demonstrating the slightest bit of evidence to even suggest that what was said was wrong does not change those facts.

…except that such a categorisation completely misses the mark and understanding that this is the case is actually pretty crucial to understanding what makes EVE different. Just because it is convenient to incorrectly label the two does not mean it's helpful to do so or that it conveys the really meaningful difference.

…one party to have private copy where they don't have to compete with others who are doing the same content. This is how the term has been used in MMOs since roughly forever. Your wish that EVE worked like every other game doesn't change the fact that it does not.

…which doesn't make them instances. They're not copies of anything, and they most certainly aren't private. Thus they fail to be any kind of instance other than in a deeply technical sense of how you initiate the object in code. But that is not how the term is used.

Grids are map divisions, not instances.

Wrong. That is the very essence of how the term is used in the MMO space. Google “mmo instance” and see for yourself. It has a meaning; it is not the one you so desperately want it to be. Even if we include the meaning of town instances to fit more people, it still does not apply to EVE since EVE doesn't do that either. More grids are not spawned to fit more people; the grid just keeps filling up until the server keels over.

EVE does not have instancing in the sense (any sense) that is commonly used in the MMO space. It is a single open world where new areas are created within that world rather than as pocket dimensions in it.

Player markets are PvP that doesn't mean every activity is.

So where do I go to find the NPC where I can sell some T2 ship fittings?

I know there are some NPCs that sell a few specific goods, but they are specific goods for a specific purpose.




It's not irrelevant at all, you're just trying to be pedantic.

Nope.

Look.
Up.
The.
Term.

I know you are afraid to do so because you will find that you are wrong. It doesn't matter. At the end of the day, EVE is still not an instanced game. Period.

…and if you don't? See, there's the difference. You can choose not to affect other players in WoW. You can't in EVE.

…aside from all the stuff I've mentioned that you haven't been able to respond to.

Of course it does. “PvE” in EVE is PvP. It's subject to competition, opposition, disruption, theft, and outright destruction to the point where the environment you're supposed to fight against becomes utterly irrelevant in comparison. Calling such content PvE when it has many time more PvP components means that this distinction provides a false image of what is actually going on.

If we want to convey a meaningful difference, those two terms are wholly insufficient since there is so much overlap. I'm not saying that we shouldn't categorise it; I'm saying that we should use more accurate and relevant categories — i.e. ones that explain exactly what kind of PvP mining a rock is.

Because Lucas things WoW works just like EVE. Somehow.

It's something to do, keeps us busy and doesn't involve us bashing CCP so they're allowing it.

It's what he does. Pendants gonna be pedantic.

It's clear to all reasonable observers that Eve is a PvP game. Even CCP spells that out multiple times in the New Pilot FAQ (pages 15, 22). The fact it has PvE in it, some of which is instanced in the loosest sense of the word, does not mean that it is not a PvP game.

No matter how much Lucas wants it to be one, nor how focused some players game play is on PvE, the fact remains EvE was designed to be, and is in fact a full-time PvP sandbox game.

Incidentally although I agree with most of what Tipia is saying I would probably state it differently as a matter of being pedantic :P

For example, yes accepting a mission and shooting red crossestriangles is *inherently* a PvE action however unlike many other MMOs it can at any time be subject to PvP action by other players. I don't think this change the action from a PvE action to a PvP action (not taking into account what you do with the isk/LP after completing the mission) but is is super important that everyone understand what makes EvE so much different to other MMOs.

It's the whole non-consensual PvP concept, something instancing in other MMOs are specifically designed to eliminate or mitigate. Once you understand that at any point in time you can be subject to PvP regardless of what you are doing or where you are, only then do you 'get' Eve (in my opinion)

yea i get that, but there comes a time when every thread has run it's time and needs to be locked.

I have, I know what the damn term means. You're simply confusing private instances and open instances, which is a developer decision. Some games even have both, like EVE (CQ is private).

So If i sit in a station and do nothing in EVE, I'm affecting people? If I choose to grind isk but then don;t actually spend it on anything, I'm affecting people?

PvE is also PvP in wow, just with different methods of competition and disruption, etc.

Actually, this was earlier discussed. Some people choose to categorise as:
PvP - direct interaction with players.
PvE - direct interaction with environment.
Competitive PvE - direct interaction with environment, indirect interaction with players.

So mining would be competitive PvE, since you compete for the ore. Missions would be standard PvE, as the elements of that which become competition (LP store, isk use on the market) fall under different mechanics, and things such as shooting players, sov warfare and most trading is PvP.

What you're getting at is that PvP can be pushed at any time, which I agree, but that doesn't detract from the fact that PvE mechanics exist. In that way, EVE is different from WoW. But the moment someone starts saying "Everything in EVE is PvP", the exact same reasoning can be used to declare WoW a PvP game.