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ISK / hour and trading strategies
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Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#21 - 2015-09-02 02:00:58 UTC
0000000000ZERO0000000000 wrote:
Sometimes you need to take what is rightfully yours. This is why I see Hamburglar as the hero.

We all play this game for a unique and "sandboxy" goal. Whether its 8/9/10 digits in your wallet, certain amount of money per hour, or hearing the lamentations of your enemies. How you approach this goal matters only to you, and as you can probably already tell by the attitude of MD, we wont judge.

As far as strategies go, there are plenty of blogs detailing every single possible combination of trading and industry/PI/Hauling/NPC hauling. Personally I would recommend Mynnna's blog.


8/9/10 digits in the wallet isn't a goal in this game.

A rookie about to buy their first cruiser has 8 digits (most cruisers cost ~15m budget fitted).

10 digits is either 'redeem a PLEX and sell it' or a couple weeks of entry-level ratting or trading.

Mid 11 figures to low 12 figures is what I term 'space middle class', and once your NAV hits a quarter trillion you are at the lower edge of spacerich.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com
Careby
#22 - 2015-09-02 03:13:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Careby
Yawning Angel7 wrote:
...The main T2 manufacturing 'cost' for me is managing buy orders for materials and sell orders for finished items as I find it a massive P.I.T.A. However, if you're a trader who already does that for dozens/hundreds of other orders that probably isn't a big deal for you...


I like the idea of manufacturing. And like mining and hauling, obviously somebody has to do it. But the reality is that for most things I have ever manufactured, once I have obtained the materials needed, I can usually make at least as much isk by reselling the materials as I can by consuming them myself. Unless there is a compelling need to actually make the thing, such as supplying the needs of a group for some greater purpose, it turns out to be mostly busywork for no net gain.
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#23 - 2015-09-02 04:31:09 UTC
Careby wrote:
Yawning Angel7 wrote:
...The main T2 manufacturing 'cost' for me is managing buy orders for materials and sell orders for finished items as I find it a massive P.I.T.A. However, if you're a trader who already does that for dozens/hundreds of other orders that probably isn't a big deal for you...


I like the idea of manufacturing. And like mining and hauling, obviously somebody has to do it. But the reality is that for most things I have ever manufactured, once I have obtained the materials needed, I can usually make at least as much isk by reselling the materials as I can by consuming them myself. Unless there is a compelling need to actually make the thing, such as supplying the needs of a group for some greater purpose, it turns out to be mostly busywork for no net gain.


There is definitely ISK to be made in T2 production which is quite separate from the trading profits you sometimes make on the side by buying intermediate components low and selling high.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com
Gadolf Agalder
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#24 - 2015-09-02 08:36:43 UTC
I ain't read nothing but I will have to test trading strategies and tactics.

That also mean the long grind, financial headaches, and worst loses in store.



I know this:
- I will not use Alts to buy my own stuff since it would be cheating the viewer of my videos (I plan to record vids).
- 2. I will buy some items for sale, but the 5% profit won't generate millions of ISK in profit until the capital is over 100m or 1 b ISK.
- 3. I got blowed up hauling stuff, and it's boring and time consuming.
- 4. I never sold anything on sale orders, only direct sales.
- 5. I bet I will make only 10% profit or less of the forecasted benefit from other viewers.
- 6. I expect to get market PvP (if not spied on).
- 7. The list is so long, it's almost making no sense to read because reader lose track of the numbers.
- 8. I will break down the ratio , not in ISK / hr, but in percent of ISK capital profit per hour and minutes.
- 9. I will have to build database (whether displayed in spreadsheets , flowcharts , or other).
Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine
In Tea We Trust
#25 - 2015-09-02 14:51:03 UTC
Yawning Angel7 wrote:
In my experience T2 manufacturing wouldn't get you anywhere near this (though I'd love for someone to prove me wrong Big smile). There are too many fiddly things you need to do to keep things running. I don't usually track time-at-keyboard for T2 manufacturing, but a rough guess would be 100m - 200m per hour.

I make circa 2.5B-3B per hour spent T2 manufacturing, with absolutely all time involved accounted for. I've been doing the same stuff for ages and it's been fine. My approach is one that is optimized for low effort, not profit and it's simple enough to do when high or drunk.

With the various tools available, it seems pretty easy to make time efficient isk from T2. The problem, of course, is that you can only spend so many hours on it before you run out of capacity. To which the answer is generally lots of alts and lots of isk.

I'm an advocate of taking advantage of every low-effort isk source CCP gives you, so I feel you should use your manufacturing and science slots for something worthwhile, even if you make your main income trading or otherwise.
Darion Maken
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#26 - 2015-09-02 15:57:21 UTC
Bad Bobby wrote:
My approach is one that is optimized for low effort, not profit and it's simple enough to do when high or drunk.



Best comment of the day.

As for the rest of the post. Care to specify whether you 'invent' or have base T2 BPO's? I looked into the invent path and it looks like a lot of busy work.

Darion
Alt Pilot1
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#27 - 2015-09-02 16:41:59 UTC
Bad Bobby wrote:
Yawning Angel7 wrote:
In my experience T2 manufacturing wouldn't get you anywhere near this (though I'd love for someone to prove me wrong Big smile). There are too many fiddly things you need to do to keep things running. I don't usually track time-at-keyboard for T2 manufacturing, but a rough guess would be 100m - 200m per hour.

I make circa 2.5B-3B per hour spent T2 manufacturing, with absolutely all time involved accounted for. I've been doing the same stuff for ages and it's been fine. My approach is one that is optimized for low effort, not profit and it's simple enough to do when high or drunk.

With the various tools available, it seems pretty easy to make time efficient isk from T2. The problem, of course, is that you can only spend so many hours on it before you run out of capacity. To which the answer is generally lots of alts and lots of isk.

I'm an advocate of taking advantage of every low-effort isk source CCP gives you, so I feel you should use your manufacturing and science slots for something worthwhile, even if you make your main income trading or otherwise.


This. There's only so much you can do in trading. Gotta branch out.
Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine
In Tea We Trust
#28 - 2015-09-02 16:54:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Bad Bobby
Darion Maken wrote:
Bad Bobby wrote:
My approach is one that is optimized for low effort, not profit and it's simple enough to do when high or drunk.



Best comment of the day.

As for the rest of the post. Care to specify whether you 'invent' or have base T2 BPO's? I looked into the invent path and it looks like a lot of busy work.

Darion

Sure.

I have a small T2 BPO collection (about 35 BPOs) and a spreadsheet I made years ago that does all the work for me, I just buy a shopping list it gives me and produce the stuff it tells me is profitable at the time.

Oh, and busy work is what CCP calls content. Personally, I've found T2 BPO based industry to be far more interesting, far more sandboxy and far more functional than invention. Making the isk to get the BPOs was interesting, buying the BPOs was interesting, selling them is interesting, producing from them is no less interesting than other production and the whole market in and around them is, in my opinion, one of the excellent parts of EVE.

On the other hand invention is a poorly conceived and partially implemented feature that received both a significant improvement and a massive nerf when the horror that is Crius happened. I truely wish they had originally done something better than invention and had then followed it up promptly with well thought out iterations to make it another wonderful feature in the game, but they didn't... so ho hum. Industry and the market just doesn't get the attention it needs.
Gadolf Agalder
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#29 - 2015-09-02 17:16:59 UTC
Oh yes, and if I win my first PLEx trading, I promise that I will give a few viewers, players, friends, and what not, free PLEx.
And no, I'm not running for EVE political elections, corporate politics election, CSM or other.
This is strictly about money , and profit.
The bottom line is money. (also)
Careby
#30 - 2015-09-02 18:28:48 UTC
Gadolf Agalder wrote:
Oh yes, and if I win my first PLEx trading, I promise that I will give a few viewers, players, friends, and what not, free PLEx...


I don't know what the hell you're talking about, but I have yet to turn down free plex. So sign me up for those.
Hulk Miner
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#31 - 2015-09-02 20:30:17 UTC
T2 production is the way to give you an extra ISK per hour boost. I quite passively invent and manufacture all components needed and click for 2.3 hours over the week (yes I time everything) the longest part of the process is hauling 8 jumps to and from JITA

ISK Per Hour (T2 Production) 2,726,741,048

Its easy to set up also.
Gadolf Agalder
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#32 - 2015-09-04 07:33:44 UTC
PLEx:
It would be nice for me to get my first PLEx ever worth from even some activity of my 10 plus pilots.
Even all of them combined, always costed me more than the value of PLEx, to earn a PLEx.

Trading:
I will try to get money from trading and follow advice from EVE Online videos and some other producer.
I must say , all the videos are hard to understand and I will try to clarify the parts that are unclear in them.
(I'll be making trading videos. I also plan to compare with direct sales, or direct sales only.)

Manufacturing:
I must say that I never tried manufacturing except the tutorial from 2012.
I am willing to invest if it can generate profit.
I should merit enough from science for this.
I wonder who would buy this though.

Trading Strategy:
Also, there is no use to earn a PLEx if it costs more to earn it.
It's good to see the difference, but it's more cost efficient to buy PLEx then.

I know it's possible to earn a PLEx in 1 day of trading, I just never got any yet.

I made about 3 or 5 PLEx worth selling items from loot by direct sales.

I also made a few PLEx worth hauling public contracts.
However, my costs were always higher, and, public contracts are linked with ganking.
I lost more by being attacked which made rewards useless.
The good part is that I now have a hauling pillot that can manage Covert Transport and Deep Space Transport.

My ISK / hour overall are negative at around 1 to 10 billion per month.
I earned some positive ISK / hour and the most would be around 1 billion per hour. (direct sale)
(low battery power...)
Dextrome Thorphan
#33 - 2015-09-04 07:54:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Dextrome Thorphan
Gadolf Agalder wrote:
Trading Strategy:
Also, there is no use to earn a PLEx if it costs more to earn it.
It's good to see the difference, but it's more cost efficient to buy PLEx then.


Uhm, what do you mean by earning a PLEX? And what cost are you referring to?

Are we talking about time here and not ISK? Like it takes longer than 30 days for you to earn a PLEX so it's not worth buying them on the market for you?
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