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High security dueling loot problem

Author
Unknown Shariik
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#21 - 2015-06-12 07:59:41 UTC
Mag's wrote:
Unknown Shariik wrote:
Mag's wrote:
So you're complaining someone beat you in the loot competition and now you wish for CCP to change the rules and give you hand holding mechanics?

lol no.


No i'm complaining that someone beat me to MY loot and gets no penalty for it.
High security is high security, not steal everything.
Oh but there is a penalty for it, you just failed to take advantage of it.

Let me explain something to you. High security means high security, not total security. Just because you have access to loot without chance of being flagged, doesn't mean it is yours. As seen by the fact someone took it off you.
If you wish in your view to take less risk by duelling at a station, then that comes with other risks. One of which is the chance someone will beat you in the loot game. Winning the duel, does not mean you win the loot.

Learn to play better. Welcome to Eve.


You pose a very good point untill the cocky finishing line. But you need to understand the people doing this don't care about the account it's done with, and it does not take ANY skill, unlike ganking, or basically anything else in the game.

"Be strong, be brave, shove your enemies face into the ground"

Unknown Shariik
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#22 - 2015-06-12 08:01:48 UTC
Samillian wrote:
Unknown Shariik wrote:
Samillian wrote:
Unknown Shariik wrote:
Mag's wrote:
So you're complaining someone beat you in the loot competition and now you wish for CCP to change the rules and give you hand holding mechanics?

lol no.


No i'm complaining that someone beat me to MY loot and gets no penalty for it.
High security is high security, not steal everything.


Really?

My word has HiSec changed that much over the years?

As I recall your can thief gets a suspect flag when he grabs the loot which seems reasonable, perhaps you would be better off staging your duels far enough away from a stations docking ring that insta docking isn't an option thus solving your problem.




that's not how it goes in most dueling areas. Most happen in station range because neither person has the guts to leave.
But in that case don't you agree a little with what i'm saying?


Not in the slightest, if people don't have the testicular fortitude to fight away from the docking ring thus making loot scooping a more risky proposition for the offender it is very much their problem and not a reason to change mechanics pointlessly.


Most people dont want their opponent to get the loot, because they lost. So him running away makes perfect sense for them.

"Be strong, be brave, shove your enemies face into the ground"

Unknown Shariik
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#23 - 2015-06-12 08:03:09 UTC
Hehe testicular fortitude, gonna use that one for sure.

"Be strong, be brave, shove your enemies face into the ground"

Mag's
Azn Empire
#24 - 2015-06-12 10:46:39 UTC
Unknown Shariik wrote:
Mag's wrote:
Oh but there is a penalty for it, you just failed to take advantage of it.

Let me explain something to you. High security means high security, not total security. Just because you have access to loot without chance of being flagged, doesn't mean it is yours. As seen by the fact someone took it off you.
If you wish in your view to take less risk by duelling at a station, then that comes with other risks. One of which is the chance someone will beat you in the loot game. Winning the duel, does not mean you win the loot.

Learn to play better. Welcome to Eve.


You pose a very good point untill the cocky finishing line. But you need to understand the people doing this don't care about the account it's done with, and it does not take ANY skill, unlike ganking, or basically anything else in the game.
It wasn't meant to be cocky, it's a perfectly valid statement.

You have options.
1. Don't duel at stations.
2. Grab the loot quicker if you do.

Playing stations games comes with it's own issues, losing loot is one of them.

I.E. learn to play better.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.

Dersen Lowery
The Scope
#25 - 2015-06-12 14:33:57 UTC
Unknown Shariik wrote:
supposed to be fair


No.

You are asking for an advantage that literally no other player in the game gets, based on a pretense of fairness that literally no other player in the game assumes or is entitled to.

Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.

I voted in CSM X!

Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2015-06-12 15:50:41 UTC
This is EvE, the faster, better, smarter gets the pot. Deal with it.

I'm my own NPC alt.

ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#27 - 2015-06-13 02:44:56 UTC
Dersen Lowery wrote:
Unknown Shariik wrote:
supposed to be fair


No.

You are asking for an advantage that literally no other player in the game gets, based on a pretense of fairness that literally no other player in the game assumes or is entitled to.

Pretty much this.

You are guaranteed loot as much as I am guaranteed to score a kill.
Which basically means, we both have to put effort into it because we have a right to neither.
Davis TetrisKing
The Vendunari
End of Life
#28 - 2015-06-18 06:02:40 UTC
Unknown Shariik wrote:
Mag's wrote:
So you're complaining someone beat you in the loot competition and now you wish for CCP to change the rules and give you hand holding mechanics?

lol no.


No i'm complaining that someone beat me to MY loot and gets no penalty for it.
High security is high security, not steal everything.


YOUR loot? Not steal everything? Hang on, I thought that was what made Eve unique, different, exciting. I can try to take what is 'yours'. Then someone else can try to take it. Or not take it and just kill me. Etc.

I think your real issue shouldn't be that someone could take 'your' stuff (it sounds so entitled most people are going to dismiss your point), the issue should be docking games. Being able to dock immediately after ninja looting means you have no direct counter to it, and that sounds like a much more reasonable concern than complaining that 'I didn't get MY loot'.

I doubt anything is going to change though. Looting stuff to go criminal is a great way to bait fights in eve, and things that drive fights are generally encouraged. Also there are ways to avoid your problem, as people have suggested, such as not dueling on the undock. You could try making that a condition of your duels, if the other person wont agree I guess you have to live with probably not getting the loot if you win.
Elenahina
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2015-06-18 17:44:17 UTC
Unknown Shariik wrote:
Mag's wrote:
So you're complaining someone beat you in the loot competition and now you wish for CCP to change the rules and give you hand holding mechanics?

lol no.


No i'm complaining that someone beat me to MY loot and gets no penalty for it.
High security is high security, not steal everything.


Loot isn't yours until it's in your ship/hangar.

Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you. Also, iderno

Elenahina
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2015-06-18 17:46:30 UTC
Unknown Shariik wrote:
Dersen Lowery wrote:
Unknown Shariik wrote:
Have any of you guys even won a duel to know what it's like to lose loot?
Cause if you don't duel then please don't comment here you don't know what i'm talking about.


People lose "their" stuff all the time. It's not just a duel thing.

Welcome to EVE.


I've been playing for 3 years now and dueling is supposed to be fair not free loot for other people.


If you've been playing that long and you're still this deluded as to the nature of this game, a mechanics change is not going to help you.

Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you. Also, iderno

Unknown Shariik
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#31 - 2015-06-18 22:09:49 UTC
Davis TetrisKing wrote:
Unknown Shariik wrote:
Mag's wrote:
So you're complaining someone beat you in the loot competition and now you wish for CCP to change the rules and give you hand holding mechanics?

lol no.


No i'm complaining that someone beat me to MY loot and gets no penalty for it.
High security is high security, not steal everything.


YOUR loot? Not steal everything? Hang on, I thought that was what made Eve unique, different, exciting. I can try to take what is 'yours'. Then someone else can try to take it. Or not take it and just kill me. Etc.

I think your real issue shouldn't be that someone could take 'your' stuff (it sounds so entitled most people are going to dismiss your point), the issue should be docking games. Being able to dock immediately after ninja looting means you have no direct counter to it, and that sounds like a much more reasonable concern than complaining that 'I didn't get MY loot'.

I doubt anything is going to change though. Looting stuff to go criminal is a great way to bait fights in eve, and things that drive fights are generally encouraged. Also there are ways to avoid your problem, as people have suggested, such as not dueling on the undock. You could try making that a condition of your duels, if the other person wont agree I guess you have to live with probably not getting the loot if you win.


I totaly agree with you, that's why one of the ideas i posted makes docking impossible for 30 seconds.

"Be strong, be brave, shove your enemies face into the ground"

Unknown Shariik
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#32 - 2015-06-18 22:52:29 UTC
Unknown Shariik wrote:
Hello everyone,
I know alot people here will be doing exactly what i want to stop, so it will be hard to get my point across, but if you see my view, great :)
I am a constant dueler in highsec, mainly to get away from the gangs of low so i have a fair fight. After winning fights that would have earned me over one billion isk in loot (not counting friends that have won over five), i am left with an empty wreck because after the amzing fight that i had, a quick fingered, one week old alt in an Imicus was closer to my loot than me. I am hoping i will get some backing to make duels in high security space have secured loot drop instead of wrecks. The current criminal timer system in highsec is BS, on any station (Jita, Hek, Dodixie, etc.) most duels are conducted within the docking range of the station letting any loot thieves instantly grab the loot and dock. The fact that this happens in high security pisses me off because it's high security, not low, i should be able to get my hard earned loot, guarded by police or metal. Now that i'm done with my long statement here are some suggestions i thought of to help fix this.


Stationed loot: Make any loot by a won duelist be scooped by the station straight into your hangar, or contracted to you by concord for a small fee.

Thief timer: Any player who steals a duelists wreck may not warp or dock for 10-30 seconds allowing anyone to attack them (This will remove the problem of small ships stealing loot. It will also make looting more of an art, requiring more skill and possibly logi.)

Loot timer: After a duel is won, no player but the duel victor may loot the wreck for 10-30 seconds (This will ensure the duelist gets his loot about 80% of the time unless he fights without a prop mod or gets bumped)

C̶o̶n̶c̶o̶r̶d̶ ̶a̶s̶s̶i̶s̶t̶a̶n̶c̶e̶:̶ ̶T̶h̶e̶ ̶l̶o̶s̶e̶r̶s̶ ̶w̶r̶e̶c̶k̶ ̶w̶i̶l̶l̶ ̶b̶e̶ ̶i̶n̶s̶t̶a̶n̶t̶l̶y̶ ̶l̶o̶o̶t̶e̶d̶ ̶b̶y̶ ̶c̶o̶n̶c̶o̶r̶d̶ ̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶r̶e̶p̶l̶a̶c̶e̶d̶ ̶w̶i̶t̶h̶ ̶a̶ ̶s̶e̶c̶u̶r̶e̶ ̶c̶a̶r̶g̶o̶ ̶c̶o̶n̶t̶a̶i̶n̶e̶r̶,̶ ̶f̶o̶r̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶v̶i̶c̶t̶o̶r̶ ̶o̶n̶l̶y̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶a̶c̶c̶e̶s̶s̶.̶


I feel that at the moment looting from honorable duelists takes very little to no skill and needs to be changed in some way.

I am open to any suggestions and hope you guys like the idea :)

"Be strong, be brave, shove your enemies face into the ground"

Sly DeathWalker
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#33 - 2015-08-17 16:34:55 UTC
Waaaahhhhhh. This is awesome. I don't even have to log in to drink up some bear tears.

Finally a forum topic that can fill my appetite for tears on the go.

😂😭😂😢😩😨😭😰😱😿😹💧💦
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
#34 - 2015-08-18 20:57:44 UTC
The fact that you are even duelling within docking range speaks volumes about you, whether you big yourself up as one of the 'last honourable knights of EVE' or not. Never mind that this is highsec, you should at the very least drop a can 150km or so from the station exit, and set up your own 'House of Fun'.

Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .

Bumble's Space Log

Madam Sadism
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#35 - 2015-09-01 22:58:15 UTC
Well clearly 90% of these comments are useless,
As another constant dueler I agree with Unknown that something needs to be changed, why cant it just be like a aggro timer that lasts for a minute. I receive a aggro timer because I just won a agreed fight but some random noob that took something they didn't own can dock instantly.

Duels happen on station not because the regular duelers are to scared but because we are trying to entice a null or low sec pvper to duel us, These infrequent duelers aren't going to leave the safety of the station.
admiral root
Red Galaxy
#36 - 2015-09-02 08:32:23 UTC
Madam Sadism wrote:
Well clearly 90% of these comments are useless,


You mean those comments disagree with you. That's not actually the same as being useless.

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff

Iain Cariaba
#37 - 2015-09-03 18:55:06 UTC
Unknown Shariik wrote:
Most happen in station range because neither person has the guts to leave.

Your cowardice to leave the docking ring should neither be encouraged or rewarded.
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