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Damn the Torpedoes! 1441 DPS Golem

Author
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#1 - 2015-09-01 20:59:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
"Damn the Torpedoes, full speed ahead!"

Damned Golem
4x Torpedo Launcher II, T2 Rage torpedoes
1x Bastion Module I
(salvaging modules of choice)

1x 500MN Microwarpdrive II
1x Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
1x Gistum C-Type Medium Shield Booster
2x Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
2x Missile Guidance Computer, range-scripted

4x Dread Guristas Ballistic Control Unit
(light drones of choice)
2x Large Hyperspacial Velocity Optimizer II

3.35 AU/s warp speed (4.23 AU/s with mid-grade Ascendancy 1-5 implants)
1441 total DPS; 1342 DPS torpedo (1570 DPS overheated); +5 missile implants
T2 Rage torpedoes: 39.3km (47km Bastion)
Faction torpedoes: 47.2km (56km Bastion)
Javelin torpedoes: 70.7km (85km Bastion)

Surprisingly enough, T2 Rage torpedoes do not have a drastically different damage application compared to T2 Fury cruise missiles (larger explosion radius but higher explosion velocity). T2 torpedoes do 18.1% more damage at a higher rate of fire, however. T2 Rage torpedoes will pop almost all NPC battleships within 2-3 volleys (including named variants). Battlecruisers, cruisers and destroyers will all pop in a single volley (named variants may take 2 volleys). For frigates it is highly recommended to switch to Faction torpedoes, and most will pop in 2-3 volleys when orbiting.

One of the interesting changes to torpedoes is that they now only occupy half the volume, so not only do they take up the same space as cruise missiles - but launcher capacity has now doubled (so you'll rarely find yourself reloading at all most missions).

If you want to extend torpedo range as much as possible, it is recommended one use Large Rocket Fuel Cache Partition II rigs (as hydraulic rigs are stacking penalized). For those feeling bold, you can enhance torpedo damage by an additional 3.5% with a Large Warhead Calefaction Catalyst II rig instead.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Anize Oramara
WarpTooZero
#2 - 2015-09-01 22:07:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Anize Oramara
Polarised because Marauders are the one ship that can use 'em and have a reasonable tank.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6007654#post6007654

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3

Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#3 - 2015-09-01 22:21:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
Anize Oramara wrote:
Polarised because Marauders are the one ship that can use 'em and have a reasonable tank.

Except there's almost zero EHP buffer - which pretty much makes you a gank magnet. I'd rather have the higher volley with T2 Rage ammunition (it's also considerably less than Faction torpedoes).

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Anize Oramara
WarpTooZero
#4 - 2015-09-01 22:35:16 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Anize Oramara wrote:
Polarised because Marauders are the one ship that can use 'em and have a reasonable tank.

Except there's almost zero EHP buffer - which pretty much makes you a gank magnet. I'd rather have the higher volley with T2 Rage ammunition (it's also considerably less than Faction torpedoes).

Running polarized does not preclude one from running T2 Rage as the ammo does fit in the launchers (my example build just had faction for application). Also dropping the shinies only lowers the dps a tiny bit and leaves you with a shield repper that costs all of 30 mill. Big gank magnet that.

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3

Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#5 - 2015-09-01 22:42:55 UTC
Anize Oramara wrote:
Running polarized does not preclude one from running T2 Rage as the ammo does fit in the launchers (my example build just had faction for application). Also dropping the shinies only lowers the dps a tiny bit and leaves you with a shield repper that costs all of 30 mill. Big gank magnet that.

Let me know how it works out for you...

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Anize Oramara
WarpTooZero
#6 - 2015-09-01 22:56:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Anize Oramara
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Anize Oramara wrote:
Running polarized does not preclude one from running T2 Rage as the ammo does fit in the launchers (my example build just had faction for application). Also dropping the shinies only lowers the dps a tiny bit and leaves you with a shield repper that costs all of 30 mill. Big gank magnet that.

Let me know how it works out for you...

Uh I ran as much (well maybe a tiny bit more) bling on a ship with far less tank. It seems to work out fine. Are you seriously suggesting a 30mill module on an otherwise T2 fit marauder (with an X-Ancil) is a gank magnet?

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3

Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#7 - 2015-09-01 23:47:58 UTC
Anize Oramara wrote:
Uh I ran as much (well maybe a tiny bit more) bling on a ship with far less tank. It seems to work out fine. Are you seriously suggesting a 30mill module on an otherwise T2 fit marauder (with an X-Ancil) is a gank magnet?

I meant the polarized aspect. I've run polarized launchers but didn't like them because it results in too many tradeoffs, namely killing the salvage component with the need to store cap boosters and the slow warp speed which precludes using it to blitz any missions (and yes, I do realize the Machariel is more well-suited for this role - but there are quite a few missions where the Golem can perform admirably).

With respect to your polarized fit, I would offer a few suggestions. First, you will only need a pair of target painters to apply maximum damage to the vast majority of targets (some NPC ships simply have very high resistances). In running about a dozen missions today I found that T2 Rage torpedoes consistently took out battleships in 2-4 volleys, named cruisers in 2 volleys and everything else short of a frigate in a single volley. The same applies to the MGC - it's overkill. Second, there are few missions where a MJD is needed and you may find that a MWD serves you better for getting around.

Since this frees up two mid slots I'd be inclined to go with a pair of shield boost amplifiers. I'm not sure if you're running with Crystal implants (probably not a bad idea), but that would certainly give you enough tank. Maybe even enough to even ditch the Ancillary shield booster in favor of upgrading the large shield booster to an x-large.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Doctor Knuckles
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2015-09-02 09:55:04 UTC
515 tanked dps.

gonna be a fun kill mail when a lone hecate pops you

is this thread even for real?
Anize Oramara
WarpTooZero
#9 - 2015-09-02 11:21:26 UTC
The only trade offs that polarized makes is it nukes your tank. What is the one thing that marauders are really *really* good at? Tank. If there is one ship in Eve that can make the best use of Polarized weapons then it's the Marauders. I know I'll be running polarized 800s on my Vargur when I re-learn BS5 (long story)

And yes mister elite HS pvper, you are free to come try and gank me through my 1400 dps non OH tank for the super shiny T2 modules I'll be running.

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3

Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#10 - 2015-09-02 11:21:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
Doctor Knuckles wrote:
gonna be a fun kill mail when a lone hecate pops you

You do realize we were discussing high-sec PvE fits, yes?

Anize Oramara wrote:
The only trade offs that polarized makes is it nukes your tank. What is the one thing that marauders are really *really* good at? Tank. If there is one ship in Eve that can make the best use of Polarized weapons then it's the Marauders. I know I'll be running polarized 800s on my Vargur when I re-learn BS5 (long story)

No argument there - but it does need Bastion to make it work, which somewhat limits your mobility. This isn't a problem for the vast majority of missions but will entail switching out to Javelin, refitting or swapping to a range script for the MGC in order to hit some of the NPC rats that occasionally lurk just outside of torpedo range. There's a difference of 25% DPS between polarized and standard launchers which is composed entirely from rate of fire. In reality I'm not sure this can be fully realized with the slow speed of torpedoes (even with rigs and Bastion), because I think you're going to either be waiting for missiles to land or target painter cycles to finish.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
#11 - 2015-09-02 13:23:45 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Doctor Knuckles wrote:
gonna be a fun kill mail when a lone hecate pops you

You do realize we were discussing high-sec PvE fits, yes?




You do realise that players don't necessarily need a reason or excuse to come into your mission area and gank you, sacrificing their cheaper but high-alpha ship against your more expensive but lower-EHP ship, yes?

Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .

Bumble's Space Log

Anize Oramara
WarpTooZero
#12 - 2015-09-02 13:57:35 UTC
Regarding Javelins, with 2 precision scripted MGCs you get the same explosion radius as faction cruise missiles while you're putting out more than 250 more dps and the best part is that as oyu said it's not in alpha damage, witch I believe was your argument for using faction cruise launchers on another build over using Fury. Same application, enough range, higher ROF, and for the instances where you're fighting half a dozen or more BS within 45km you can switch to Rage for an even bigger damage increase. The flight time from looking at the numbers looks decent, at 50km your first volley of Javs should hit just as the 2nd volley leaves the tubes.

I think a Torp Golem has a lot of potential in terms of being able to adapt/optimize mid site and so any build I make would be aimed to do exactly that. It does require a more active style of piloting, similar to transversal matching in a Mach for example, but that just means it can out perform any static fit. That's why I like Tracking comps and MGCs so much. This level of micro is not for everyone though so I can understand that.

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3

Anize Oramara
WarpTooZero
#13 - 2015-09-02 14:24:48 UTC
Bumblefck wrote:
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Doctor Knuckles wrote:
gonna be a fun kill mail when a lone hecate pops you

You do realize we were discussing high-sec PvE fits, yes?




You do realise that players don't necessarily need a reason or excuse to come into your mission area and gank you, sacrificing their cheaper but high-alpha ship against your more expensive but lower-EHP ship, yes?

Quite true, however a single hecate doing say, 858 dps OH would need to counter my peak OH tank of 1047 (ancil will run for 40sec) and burn though 29k EHP (no resists because Polarized) in the time it takes Concord to respond in a .5 system. Heck not even 2 Hecates will be able to do it, you'd need 3.

That's of course if I don't have a depo deployed and drop the guns to get all my resists back. Oh hay, is that a 2300 dps tank and 55k EHP? How Many Hacates is that? I'd feel down right flattered if that many people came after me Lol

I'd probably through out a GF in local and congratulate them on whatever T2 modules and salvage they get if they manage it though.

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3

Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#14 - 2015-09-02 17:31:29 UTC
Bumblefck wrote:
You do realise that players don't necessarily need a reason or excuse to come into your mission area and gank you, sacrificing their cheaper but high-alpha ship against your more expensive but lower-EHP ship, yes?

Yes, although they'll probably need to move up to Tornados to pull it off - and then they'll have to justify the added expense against the possibility of some T2 and Faction module drops.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Doctor Knuckles
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#15 - 2015-09-03 13:17:21 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Bumblefck wrote:
You do realise that players don't necessarily need a reason or excuse to come into your mission area and gank you, sacrificing their cheaper but high-alpha ship against your more expensive but lower-EHP ship, yes?

Yes, although they'll probably need to move up to Tornados to pull it off - and then they'll have to justify the added expense against the possibility of some T2 and Faction module drops.



tbh they just need a bunch of catalysts, not even that many considering your fit has low buffer and pathetic repping potential.

Makes for a nice trade in killmails really
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#16 - 2015-09-03 16:18:02 UTC
Doctor Knuckles wrote:
tbh they just need a bunch of catalysts, not even that many considering your fit has low buffer and pathetic repping potential. Makes for a nice trade in killmails really

As I said, I'm not a fan of polarized weapons - even on a Golem. The main reason is that it's next to impossible to apply damage application fast enough to match the rate of fire. Unless you're shooting at structures or targets at point-blank range you'll never realize the DPS potential.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

unidenify
Deaf Armada
#17 - 2015-09-03 21:21:50 UTC
I use different fit

[Golem, L4 Scorpion]
Missile Guidance Enhancer II
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System

Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Large Micro Jump Drive
Pith X-Type X-Large Shield Booster
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II

Bastion Module I
Torpedo Launcher II, Nova Rage Torpedo
Torpedo Launcher II, Nova Rage Torpedo
Torpedo Launcher II, Nova Rage Torpedo
Torpedo Launcher II, Nova Rage Torpedo
Small Tractor Beam II
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]

Large Hydraulic Bay Thrusters II
Large Rocket Fuel Cache Partition II


rarely I have issue where I can't reach target. MJD + 50km Rage Torp make everything within reach
Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar
#18 - 2015-09-04 11:07:09 UTC
The only ships that should be fitting polarized weapons are kiting pvp ships.

Star Jump Drive A new way to traverse the galaxy.

I invented Tiericide

Dato Koppla
Spaghetti Militia
#19 - 2015-09-05 07:18:51 UTC
The problem with this is that the Rattlesnake can put out very similar dps, with more application and range and still have enough tank for L4s. All while being 1/3 the cost of the Golem.
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2015-09-05 11:07:28 UTC
Val'Dore wrote:
The only ships that should be fitting polarized weapons are kiting pvp ships.


With those short range guns yes, great observation.
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