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Hi Sec ganking catalyst that can tank gate guns
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Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2015-09-01 02:48:32 UTC
Bronson Hughes wrote:
Malt Zedong wrote:
IF someone is stupid enough to haul something worth lose a fight ship for in T1 undustrials, your ganking possible fit will most likely make you lose more than you have to profit.

If it is personal, it is stupid.

If you find a way to get cheap ganking fit enough to worth the trouble of ganking a T1 industrial, odds are CCP will change it. They did it in the past, they are doing it today, and they will do it in the future.

Do a quick search of Iteron Mark V on any killboard and you'll see that there are plenty of T1 haulers flying around hisec that are worth ganking and that there have been for quite some time. CCP has come out not directly supporting suicide ganking, but has acknowledged that it is a valid playstyle and has no plans to change it.


Just look up ParanoidLoyd on zkillboard. He operates in a good 0.5 pipe and regularly catches idiots hauling 100M-1B worth of goodies in badly tanked or untanked T1 industrials. He doesn't feel the need to **** up the forums with trolling and attention threads but he's got the ganking for profit thing down.

If you have a couple of alts and can multibox a ganker, a hauler and a passive ship scanner, there's big bucks to be made popping dumbs hauling high value cargo in paper ships. There is a lot of that in highsec; I've done it myself a few times out of laziness. You just need to pick the right group of systems and have the proper setup.
Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#22 - 2015-09-01 02:55:06 UTC
Tisiphone Dira wrote:
Just to clarify:

Cruiser is better (vexor, thorax, rupture, Moa and maller) thrasher is the more common gate dessie but lloyds fit is how you would do it with a cat.

Nobody has yet clarified that/if we are only talking about half the industrials, the fatter weaker ones, the Iteron V and not the Nereus, the mammoth and not the wreathe.

The 1100 dps vexor mentioned is blaster/drone, not the garde rail gate ganking fit most are talking about.

Lot of bad info in this thread, listen to Lloyd and the guys he agrees with here


There are T1 industrials designed to tank but how many people actually fit them properly?

My Nereus has almost as much EHP as a buffer cruiser, but many of the people hauling in highsec don't know how to fit a good, balanced buffer tank. Using a ship scanner + passive targeter scout (or scouts) allows you to easily identify promising targets and move your gank ship into position.

I would wager that maybe 1 in 10 of the T1 industrials I see in highsec has more than 10k EHP. So many killmails where they are unfit or half fit...it's awful.
Tisiphone Dira
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2015-09-01 03:51:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Tisiphone Dira
I'm well aware, my kb is full of em. Not having access to eve or pyfa ATM given my and inexperience with ac thrashers (I just throw a vexor at it) or gate cats my quick eyeball of Nereus ehp says that the 4-4.7k (?) that the gate dessies can do isn't sufficient for even untanked 'beefy' (wreathe, Nereus...) t1 haulers or if it is, it's cutting it mighty close. I was just commenting on how it wasn't clear from this thread which untanked t1 haulers we are talking about, as it does seem to matter. It's not about their fits, we've established that they are unfit or anti-tanked, it's about their higher base ehp.

There once was a ganker named tisi

A stunningly beautiful missy

To gank a gross miner

There is nothing finer, cept when they get all pissy
Amanda Rekenwhith
Safeties On Red
#24 - 2015-09-01 06:06:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Amanda Rekenwhith
I borrowed Paranoid Loyd's fit (I had to drop one of the shield rigs for a power grid boost as my skills aren't top notch) and I tore thru a Tayra in a 0.6 system. Nothing in it but I was shooting it as an experiment, not a gank. Gonna find me a good pipe. I got a hauler alt and a scanner alt. It's just getting used to using them all in concert.

Do gate/station guns delivery a certain type of damage I can tank against or do they just throw everything at you at once?

EDIT: Google is my friend. Kinetic and Thermal are the two bigger dmg types dealt.

http://eveinfo.com/npcships/99/sentry-gun/

For dessert we're offering humble pie.  Would you like some after you're done eating crow?
Noragen Neirfallas
Emotional Net Loss
#25 - 2015-09-01 06:55:57 UTC
Tisiphone Dira wrote:
I'm well aware, my kb is full of em. Not having access to eve or pyfa ATM given my and inexperience with ac thrashers (I just throw a vexor at it) or gate cats my quick eyeball of Nereus ehp says that the 4-4.7k (?) that the gate dessies can do isn't sufficient for even untanked 'beefy' (wreathe, Nereus...) t1 haulers or if it is, it's cutting it mighty close. I was just commenting on how it wasn't clear from this thread which untanked t1 haulers we are talking about, as it does seem to matter. It's not about their fits, we've established that they are unfit or anti-tanked, it's about their higher base ehp.

Digging the portrait

Member and Judge of the Court of Crime and Punishment

Noragens basically the Chribba of C&P - Zimmy Zeta

Confirming that we all play in Noragen's eve. - BeBopAReBop

ISD Buldath favorite ISD

'"****station games" - Sun Tzu' - Ralph King Griffin
Mortlake
Republic Military School
#26 - 2015-09-01 07:43:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Mortlake
Noragen Neirfallas wrote:
Tisiphone Dira wrote:
I'm well aware, my kb is full of em. Not having access to eve or pyfa ATM given my and inexperience with ac thrashers (I just throw a vexor at it) or gate cats my quick eyeball of Nereus ehp says that the 4-4.7k (?) that the gate dessies can do isn't sufficient for even untanked 'beefy' (wreathe, Nereus...) t1 haulers or if it is, it's cutting it mighty close. I was just commenting on how it wasn't clear from this thread which untanked t1 haulers we are talking about, as it does seem to matter. It's not about their fits, we've established that they are unfit or anti-tanked, it's about their higher base ehp.

Digging the portrait


Tisiphone's bio should say "Your mother sucks rocks in hell".

Sometimes you hit the bar and sometimes the bar hits you...
Rhamnousia Nosferatu
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#27 - 2015-09-01 10:37:14 UTC
CODE member asking this stuff on eve-o forums? Now I've seen it all...
Bellatrix Invicta
Doomheim
#28 - 2015-09-01 14:58:28 UTC
Hall monitor, calm down.

If you think you've won, think again.

The CODE always wins.
Paranoid Loyd
#29 - 2015-09-01 15:22:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Paranoid Loyd
Tisi makes a good point, I should have specified. Bestower, Iteron, Mammoth and Tayra can easily be killed. The others all have a decent base tank relative to a gate cat's damage potential, so unless they are completely anti-tanked and you have very good skills, it's usually best to pass or ship up to a cruiser.

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!
Tengu Grib
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#30 - 2015-09-01 15:37:09 UTC
Tisiphone Dira wrote:
I'm well aware, my kb is full of em. Not having access to eve or pyfa ATM given my and inexperience with ac thrashers (I just throw a vexor at it) or gate cats my quick eyeball of Nereus ehp says that the 4-4.7k (?) that the gate dessies can do isn't sufficient for even untanked 'beefy' (wreathe, Nereus...) t1 haulers or if it is, it's cutting it mighty close. I was just commenting on how it wasn't clear from this thread which untanked t1 haulers we are talking about, as it does seem to matter. It's not about their fits, we've established that they are unfit or anti-tanked, it's about their higher base ehp.


How is your head still attached to your shoulders? Your skill at making creepy portraits is only exceeded by your skill as an Agent.

Rabble Rabble Rabble

Praise James, Supreme Protector of High Sec.
Tengu Grib
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#31 - 2015-09-01 15:40:14 UTC
Malt Zedong wrote:
IF someone is stupid enough to haul something worth lose a fight ship for in T1 undustrials, your ganking possible fit will most likely make you lose more than you have to profit.

If it is personal, it is stupid.

If you find a way to get cheap ganking fit enough to worth the trouble of ganking a T1 industrial, odds are CCP will change it. They did it in the past, they are doing it today, and they will do it in the future.


Look at the fits of the industrials that die. They deserve to explode. Anyone who fits a proper tank on a hull meant to take a punch isn't going to get ganked (not likely anyways) as it's far easier to just wait for a juicier and softer target.

That is unless they are crammed to bursting with goodies, such pinatas are well worth calling friends for.

In summary, the industrials that die are being piloted by people who take a foolish risk and pay for it. The people being smart about it, don't die.

Rabble Rabble Rabble

Praise James, Supreme Protector of High Sec.
Gimme Sake
State War Academy
Caldari State
#32 - 2015-09-01 15:52:25 UTC
Tengu Grib wrote:


How is your head still attached to your shoulders? Your skill at making creepy portraits is only exceeded by your skill as an Agent.



One of my fav Eve portraits. It inspires me to imagine a surreal scenario where she rotates her head continuously, at 360 degrees, near a retriever wreck, while reciting minerbump quotes, in a crystalline, innocent voice. Lol

"Never not blob!" ~ Plato
Noragen Neirfallas
Emotional Net Loss
#33 - 2015-09-01 16:27:38 UTC
Mortlake wrote:
Noragen Neirfallas wrote:
Tisiphone Dira wrote:
I'm well aware, my kb is full of em. Not having access to eve or pyfa ATM given my and inexperience with ac thrashers (I just throw a vexor at it) or gate cats my quick eyeball of Nereus ehp says that the 4-4.7k (?) that the gate dessies can do isn't sufficient for even untanked 'beefy' (wreathe, Nereus...) t1 haulers or if it is, it's cutting it mighty close. I was just commenting on how it wasn't clear from this thread which untanked t1 haulers we are talking about, as it does seem to matter. It's not about their fits, we've established that they are unfit or anti-tanked, it's about their higher base ehp.

Digging the portrait


Tisiphone's bio should say "Your mother sucks rocks in hell".

Jesus Mort where do you find these gems???

Member and Judge of the Court of Crime and Punishment

Noragens basically the Chribba of C&P - Zimmy Zeta

Confirming that we all play in Noragen's eve. - BeBopAReBop

ISD Buldath favorite ISD

'"****station games" - Sun Tzu' - Ralph King Griffin
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#34 - 2015-09-02 02:37:18 UTC
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Tier 1 dessies have been glass cannons (or coffins) since it was just cats.

After a while you don't even bother to tank them.


The exception is when the net DPS gain is more when fitting a tank than without. In the case of ganking on gates or stations, tank with downsized guns nets you more damage than a max gank setup.




That's would be the "DPS as Tank" model which is valid even in other MMOs. Except meaty MMOs where casters will say "I got more stamina than you" and healers will complain every two minutes. Better to be solo or stay off voice comms in raids and expect to die. A lot.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#35 - 2015-09-02 04:43:38 UTC
I also encourage the use of rail/Garde Vexor fits for this job, or Moas, or Ruptures.

The other option to consider is blaster/Garde Vexors with Null M.

Catalysts suffer too much from having to use Null ammo, and not having the option to fit a real shield tank. The Vexor can fit a solid shield tank that easily stands up to gate guns for 24 seconds.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com
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