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Hi Sec ganking catalyst that can tank gate guns
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Amanda Rekenwhith
Safeties On Red
#1 - 2015-08-31 06:58:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Amanda Rekenwhith
I'm looking for a cat fit that can hold up to the gate guns long enough to pop a Tayra or other T1 industrial. Also does system security status matter? 1.0 vs 0.5 etc.

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Dreadchain
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2015-08-31 08:09:59 UTC
Cats simply don't tank too well - it's a stretch just to fit the blasters on it, not to mention their range makes their usefulness limited on gates if you're -10.

Most people prefer T1 cruisers for this sort of activity. They're an intermediate between a Catalyst and a Talos as far as the ISK to DPS ratio goes. Yet they can squeeze in just enough tank to survive on gate before concord drops by.

For example, a Vexor can dish out up to 1100 DPS, typically around 1000. Mallers and Moas make their appereance as well. Thrashers will also work for some less tanky targets, even industrials. Tornadoes and Taloses are for the bigger fish.

Do correct me if I'm wrong though, I don't do that much gate ganking.

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Valkin Mordirc
#3 - 2015-08-31 08:30:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Valkin Mordirc
I've been only ganked once, and it was in a T1 hauler. It was in a Vexor so I would probably suggest that,
#DeleteTheWeak
Mag's
Azn Empire
#4 - 2015-08-31 09:41:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Mag's
You've no chance in low sec, never mind high. In low we had frigs on that gate, but with logi.
Plus I may be wrong, but I'm sure that gate guns in high are more powerful.

(yes I know the question was regarding a dessy)

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Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2015-08-31 10:32:16 UTC
The Vexor is the standard choice. See ParanoidLoyd's killboard for details.
Malt Zedong
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#6 - 2015-08-31 12:02:32 UTC
IF someone is stupid enough to haul something worth lose a fight ship for in T1 undustrials, your ganking possible fit will most likely make you lose more than you have to profit.

If it is personal, it is stupid.

If you find a way to get cheap ganking fit enough to worth the trouble of ganking a T1 industrial, odds are CCP will change it. They did it in the past, they are doing it today, and they will do it in the future.

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Anne Dieu-le-veut
Natl Assn for the Advancement of Criminal People
#7 - 2015-08-31 12:38:10 UTC
IIRC 1.0 and 0.9 have 8 gate guns vs 6 on 0.8-0.5, but I can't log in to check ATM. Never seen a rail Catalyst for gate ganks, but assuming it's been tried and doesn't work so great or I'd see more Cat wrecks on gates instead of Thrashers.

Malt Zedong wrote:
IF someone is stupid enough to haul something worth lose a fight ship for in T1 undustrials, your ganking possible fit will most likely make you lose more than you have to profit.

If it is personal, it is stupid.

If you find a way to get cheap ganking fit enough to worth the trouble of ganking a T1 industrial, odds are CCP will change it. They did it in the past, they are doing it today, and they will do it in the future.


T1s are ganked all the time on gates with Cruisers.
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
#8 - 2015-08-31 13:04:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Bronson Hughes
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
The Vexor is the standard choice. See ParanoidLoyd's killboard for details.

Confirming this. Paranoid Loyd is a master at doing exactly the kind of thing you're speaking of. His ship of choice is a rail Thorax, but I know other have great success with gank vexors.

Relatively Notorious By Association

My Many Misadventures

I predicted FAUXs
Gimme Sake
State War Academy
Caldari State
#9 - 2015-08-31 13:35:53 UTC
In low it is impossibru without logi. In HS I've seen Vexors with gardes doing it but that was before the dda nerfs.

"Never not blob!" ~ Plato
Paranoid Loyd
#10 - 2015-08-31 16:41:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Paranoid Loyd
Catalyst can kill untanked haulers on gates but they have to be auto-piloting or sitting idle.
Two rail cats could theoretically kill non autopiloting haulers but if you are buying tags it is cheaper to use a single cruiser.

[Catalyst, Gate Cheap]
Damage Control I
Gauss Field Balancer I
Gauss Field Balancer I

Limited Adaptive Invulnerability Field I
Medium Subordinate Screen Stabilizer I

Modal Light Ion Particle Accelerator I,Federation Navy Antimatter Charge S
Modal Light Ion Particle Accelerator I,Federation Navy Antimatter Charge S
Modal Light Ion Particle Accelerator I,Federation Navy Antimatter Charge S
Modal Light Ion Particle Accelerator I,Federation Navy Antimatter Charge S
Modal Light Ion Particle Accelerator I,Federation Navy Antimatter Charge S
Modal Light Ion Particle Accelerator I,Federation Navy Antimatter Charge S
Modal Light Ion Particle Accelerator I,Federation Navy Antimatter Charge S
Modal Light Ion Particle Accelerator I,Federation Navy Antimatter Charge S

Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Small Anti-Kinetic Screen Reinforcer I
Small Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I

I prefer the Thorax for a few reasons, but Vexor is still the most popular as it does more damage.

Sec status of system does matter, it's really only effective to use a cruiser up to .7 systems, higher than that you need to have enough alpha firepower to take out the target, this is usually accomplished with a Tornado, but Hurricane and Rupture also have their uses.

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"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!
Noragen Neirfallas
Emotional Net Loss
#11 - 2015-08-31 16:55:00 UTC
Malt Zedong wrote:
IF someone is stupid enough to haul something worth lose a fight ship for in T1 undustrials, your ganking possible fit will most likely make you lose more than you have to profit.

If it is personal, it is stupid.

If you find a way to get cheap ganking fit enough to worth the trouble of ganking a T1 industrial, odds are CCP will change it. They did it in the past, they are doing it today, and they will do it in the future.

Stop me if I'm wrong here (it was a little hard to understand) but are you suggesting that ganking t1 haulers doesn't happen, isn't profitable and/or CCP should nerf it if it does happen? If so...

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Paranoid Loyd
#12 - 2015-08-31 17:00:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Paranoid Loyd
Confirming Zedong couldn't be anymore misinformed.

I use a 12 mil isk Thorax and average approximately 420 mil a kill.

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
#13 - 2015-08-31 17:01:38 UTC
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
I prefer the Thorax for a few reasons...

It's a phallic thing, isn't it?

Blink

Relatively Notorious By Association

My Many Misadventures

I predicted FAUXs
Noragen Neirfallas
Emotional Net Loss
#14 - 2015-08-31 17:02:00 UTC
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
Confirming Zedong couldn't be anymore misinformed.

I'm noticing a severe trend of that in his posting history Lol

Member and Judge of the Court of Crime and Punishment

Noragens basically the Chribba of C&P - Zimmy Zeta

Confirming that we all play in Noragen's eve. - BeBopAReBop

ISD Buldath favorite ISD

'"****station games" - Sun Tzu' - Ralph King Griffin
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
#15 - 2015-08-31 17:07:41 UTC
Malt Zedong wrote:
IF someone is stupid enough to haul something worth lose a fight ship for in T1 undustrials, your ganking possible fit will most likely make you lose more than you have to profit.

If it is personal, it is stupid.

If you find a way to get cheap ganking fit enough to worth the trouble of ganking a T1 industrial, odds are CCP will change it. They did it in the past, they are doing it today, and they will do it in the future.

Do a quick search of Iteron Mark V on any killboard and you'll see that there are plenty of T1 haulers flying around hisec that are worth ganking and that there have been for quite some time. CCP has come out not directly supporting suicide ganking, but has acknowledged that it is a valid playstyle and has no plans to change it.

Relatively Notorious By Association

My Many Misadventures

I predicted FAUXs
Bellatrix Invicta
Doomheim
#16 - 2015-08-31 17:21:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Bellatrix Invicta
Bronson Hughes wrote:
Malt Zedong wrote:
IF someone is stupid enough to haul something worth lose a fight ship for in T1 undustrials, your ganking possible fit will most likely make you lose more than you have to profit.

If it is personal, it is stupid.

If you find a way to get cheap ganking fit enough to worth the trouble of ganking a T1 industrial, odds are CCP will change it. They did it in the past, they are doing it today, and they will do it in the future.

Do a quick search of Iteron Mark V on any killboard and you'll see that there are plenty of T1 haulers flying around hisec that are worth ganking and that there have been for quite some time. CCP has come out not directly supporting suicide ganking, but has acknowledged that it is a valid playstyle and has no plans to change it.


Exactly this. CCP cannot support any playstyle in their game because bias. Once they do that then the floodgates are open and you may as well start selling Slushees and spun sugar at planetside stands because that would bring in the theme park.

Every playstyle is allowed, valid and seen as emergent gameplay in the eyes of CCP. This is the best thing that can be. No one breaks the rules, we all just find very creative ways to exist within them.

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Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#17 - 2015-08-31 18:01:30 UTC
Tier 1 dessies have been glass cannons (or coffins) since it was just cats.

After a while you don't even bother to tank them.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Noragen Neirfallas
Emotional Net Loss
#18 - 2015-08-31 18:12:23 UTC
Bronson Hughes wrote:
Malt Zedong wrote:
IF someone is stupid enough to haul something worth lose a fight ship for in T1 undustrials, your ganking possible fit will most likely make you lose more than you have to profit.

If it is personal, it is stupid.

If you find a way to get cheap ganking fit enough to worth the trouble of ganking a T1 industrial, odds are CCP will change it. They did it in the past, they are doing it today, and they will do it in the future.

Do a quick search of Iteron Mark V on any killboard and you'll see that there are plenty of T1 haulers flying around hisec that are worth ganking and that there have been for quite some time. CCP has come out not directly supporting suicide ganking, but has acknowledged that it is a valid playstyle and has no plans to change it.

I believe the phrase used is 'mechanics working as intended' If that's not an endorsement I don't know what is Big smile

Member and Judge of the Court of Crime and Punishment

Noragens basically the Chribba of C&P - Zimmy Zeta

Confirming that we all play in Noragen's eve. - BeBopAReBop

ISD Buldath favorite ISD

'"****station games" - Sun Tzu' - Ralph King Griffin
Paranoid Loyd
#19 - 2015-08-31 20:07:36 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Tier 1 dessies have been glass cannons (or coffins) since it was just cats.

After a while you don't even bother to tank them.


The exception is when the net DPS gain is more when fitting a tank than without. In the case of ganking on gates or stations, tank with downsized guns nets you more damage than a max gank setup.

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!
Tisiphone Dira
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2015-09-01 02:36:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Tisiphone Dira
Just to clarify:

Cruiser is better (vexor, thorax, rupture, Moa and maller) thrasher is the more common gate dessie but lloyds fit is how you would do it with a cat.

Nobody has yet clarified that/if we are only talking about half the industrials, the fatter weaker ones, the Iteron V and not the Nereus, the mammoth and not the wreathe.

The 1100 dps vexor mentioned is blaster/drone, not the garde rail gate ganking fit most are talking about.

Lot of bad info in this thread, listen to Lloyd and the guys he agrees with here

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