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Self destruct disabled by warp disrupt/scram
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Nestara Aldent
Citimatics
#21 - 2012-01-02 22:14:13 UTC
To be honest killmails could be removed, but people track their success with them.

CCP could make them unavailable via API. That would shut the killboards down, but still allow personal tracking of successes and losses. However many corps use killboard to track success, and they are used by E-uni as well to point out flaws in fitting if they exist. Disabling KBs prevents that and gives nothing in return, but honestly I'll accept whatever CCP chooses.
Angelo Cossa
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#22 - 2012-01-02 22:47:37 UTC
I don't see nothing wrong with killmail, and i think that the player getting killmail for a ship self destruct is just fine.

If the ship had any chance of fleeing or kill you it would not self destruct, so you were the cause the ship is down and deserves a killmail, simple as that...
Misanthra
Alternative Enterprises
#23 - 2012-01-02 23:57:48 UTC
Simi Kusoni wrote:
Nestara Aldent wrote:
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:
Then they get to choose. Ridding the field of enemies or getting jucy killmails.

Seems balanced to me.


Except your idea of balance is completely arbitrary. You dislike pvp so you disagree with every sensible proposal about pvp out of spite.

They couldn't chose. They couldn't dps all eight of them in time to prevent self-destruction.

It always makes me laugh when people say "bring more DPS".

Then two threads over you see the same people QQing about blobs.



When killing supers you have to. Its why people pay the money they do for em. If its an armour one....may as well jsut assume its slaved as well. Don't ahve the dps to handle it....you have no busniess hitting a mommy. More balls than brains and no cries of tackle that pig, we got a fleet inbound, well then expect a sd.


And moar dps doesn't necessarily mean blobs. Just means moar dps on the ships involved. Common example, falcon support for a scrub gank squad. 2 noobs in rifters, pro falcon support (guy did it proper, recon 5, has electronics maxed, he earned easeir jamming since these aren't fun trains).

Falcon jams the target, the noobs slowly kill the mark. No falcon support they'd let that fish go or die to it. With falcon support there they are killing what they know damn well they;d have no chance in hell killing otherwise. And its shows...the mark is getting bored fast and going wtf is this crap. The dps of the rifters is making it a slow drawn out turket shoot. So.....the mark speeds it up and sd's.

Take away that falcon, those 2 noobs might get a pilot more aggreeable to sticking around for a good fight since he could fight back. Or upgrade those rifters to say canes. That pilot might say yeah I got got....least they have the deeps to finish me off fast . Nope.....the crap rifters doing crap damage with the bitter vet in a falcon (again crap damage lol) has them go screw this and sd to get out of bad spot in 2 minutes vice 10..

Hell to keep it 3 ships and somewhat fair.....change the falcon to rapier. Yet another way to get moar dps...no blob. The pilot might not sd out....probably try to shut down the rapier then the frigs. If not...at least the rapier is doing more than chipping paint.
Epofhis
Amped.
Goonswarm Federation
#24 - 2012-01-03 00:12:49 UTC
Said it before, sayin' it again.

Don't bring scrub fleets to supercap fights. System is working as intended.

-1. Not supported.

Before posting in Features and Ideas, please remember that Eve is in no way obligated to change based on your stupidity, ineptitude, or well honed sense of personal butthurt.

Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#25 - 2012-01-03 01:17:21 UTC
Misanthra wrote:
When killing supers you have to. Its why people pay the money they do for em. If its an armour one....may as well jsut assume its slaved as well. Don't ahve the dps to handle it....you have no busniess hitting a mommy. More balls than brains and no cries of tackle that pig, we got a fleet inbound, well then expect a sd.

And moar dps doesn't necessarily mean blobs. Just means moar dps on the ships involved. Common example, falcon support for a scrub gank squad. 2 noobs in rifters, pro falcon support (guy did it proper, recon 5, has electronics maxed, he earned easeir jamming since these aren't fun trains).

Falcon jams the target, the noobs slowly kill the mark. No falcon support they'd let that fish go or die to it. With falcon support there they are killing what they know damn well they;d have no chance in hell killing otherwise. And its shows...the mark is getting bored fast and going wtf is this crap. The dps of the rifters is making it a slow drawn out turket shoot. So.....the mark speeds it up and sd's.

Take away that falcon, those 2 noobs might get a pilot more aggreeable to sticking around for a good fight since he could fight back. Or upgrade those rifters to say canes. That pilot might say yeah I got got....least they have the deeps to finish me off fast . Nope.....the crap rifters doing crap damage with the bitter vet in a falcon (again crap damage lol) has them go screw this and sd to get out of bad spot in 2 minutes vice 10..

Hell to keep it 3 ships and somewhat fair.....change the falcon to rapier. Yet another way to get moar dps...no blob. The pilot might not sd out....probably try to shut down the rapier then the frigs. If not...at least the rapier is doing more than chipping paint.

Well in your example changing the SD timer based on ship size would still be fine. But since we're doing the "examples of stuff that sucks" thing.

Common examples:


  • Freighter jumps through a gate with an escort. You have a gang that is pretty evenly matched against the escort, you manage to kill them and whilst you do so the freighter self destructs. Small groups are forced to choose between good FCing, and just primarying the most expensive ships because no decent fight ever lasts less than two minutes.

  • Guy missions in an Aeon, you know what time of day he does it and where he does it. You have his cyno alts in your address book, and know where he is going to cyno out to. You know who he flies with and you know they're usually offline at that time of night. The ones that aren't you've run locators on to make sure they're not in jump range. You're happy you can kill him in <10 minutes, and that help won't arrive in that time. Thanks to SD timers you don't even bother trying because he'll just self destruct.


As for Epofhis' comment "Don't bring scrub fleets to supercap fights", if it's a scrub fleet why is the supercap self destructing?

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]
Endeavour Starfleet
#26 - 2012-01-03 02:09:13 UTC
No need to change the timers. The current system is working.

If you do not have the DPS to bring down the target in a few minutes the pilot deserves the chance to deny you loot and KM. So you need to drop him fast if you want that jucy loot and KM. Again it encourages group play.

And if someone is seriously passing up a chance to drop an enemy or neut capital because they wont get loot and KM.. That is well silly. Bring friends with enough DPS.
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#27 - 2012-01-03 02:54:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Simi Kusoni
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:
No need to change the timers. The current system is working.

If you do not have the DPS to bring down the target in a few minutes the pilot deserves the chance to deny you loot and KM. So you need to drop him fast if you want that jucy loot and KM. Again it encourages group play.

And if someone is seriously passing up a chance to drop an enemy or neut capital because they wont get loot and KM.. That is well silly. Bring friends with enough DPS.

Group play? Do you have any idea how many dreads it takes to kill a super in <2 minutes? The number of alliances who can field those kind of fleets is pretty limited, and even then they can not kill fleets of multiple enemy supers/titans. That is not working as intended, that is merely encouraging unimaginative fleet comps which focus entirely on maximum DPS.

As for passing because you won't get loot or KM, why would you risk your own capital fleet when you get no reward? Not all of us fight for SOV, or against a specific enemy. Some of us do it purely for the loot. Why should we suffer because people who rat in their titans or get hero tackled by rifters want to avoid KMs?

*EDIT: For what it's worth, CSM covered this issue.

http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Balance_self-destruction_(CSM)

1. Self-destruct revokes insurance

ElvenLord - yes
Alekseyev Karrde - yes
Zastrow J - yes
TeaDaze - yes
Mrs Trzzbk - no
Korvin - no
Z0D - yes
Song Li - yes
Sokratesz - yes
Passes: 7/2

2. Self-destruct generates killmail if player is agressed (as with NPCs)

ElvenLord - yes
Alekseyev Karrde - yes
Zastrow J - yes
TeaDaze - no
Mrs Trzzbk - yes
Korvin - yes
Z0D - yes
Song Li - no
Sokratesz - yes
Passes: 7/2

3. selfdestruct "overheat" all modules

ElvenLord - no
Alekseyev Karrde - yes
Zastrow J - no
TeaDaze - no
Mrs Trzzbk - no
Korvin - no
Z0D - no
Song Li - no
Sokratesz - yes
Fails: 7/2

4. Selfdestruct timer depends on shipsize

ElvenLord - yes
Alekseyev Karrde - yes
Zastrow J - yes
TeaDaze - yes
Mrs Trzzbk - yes
Korvin - no
Z0D - yes
Song Li - yes
Sokratesz - yes

Raised 20th December 2009, as far as I'm aware CCP haven't even made a comment on it, so I don't think it's going to change. It's still probably one of the most idiotic mechanics in Eve though.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]
Goose99
#28 - 2012-01-03 03:41:12 UTC
Simi Kusoni wrote:
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:
No need to change the timers. The current system is working.

If you do not have the DPS to bring down the target in a few minutes the pilot deserves the chance to deny you loot and KM. So you need to drop him fast if you want that jucy loot and KM. Again it encourages group play.

And if someone is seriously passing up a chance to drop an enemy or neut capital because they wont get loot and KM.. That is well silly. Bring friends with enough DPS.

Group play? Do you have any idea how many dreads it takes to kill a super in <2 minutes? The number of alliances who can field those kind of fleets is pretty limited, and even then they can not kill fleets of multiple enemy supers/titans. That is not working as intended, that is merely encouraging unimaginative fleet comps which focus entirely on maximum DPS.

As for passing because you won't get loot or KM, why would you risk your own capital fleet when you get no reward? Not all of us fight for SOV, or against a specific enemy. Some of us do it purely for the loot. Why should we suffer because people who rat in their titans or get hero tackled by rifters want to avoid KMs?

*EDIT: For what it's worth, CSM covered this issue.

http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Balance_self-destruction_(CSM)

1. Self-destruct revokes insurance

ElvenLord - yes
Alekseyev Karrde - yes
Zastrow J - yes
TeaDaze - yes
Mrs Trzzbk - no
Korvin - no
Z0D - yes
Song Li - yes
Sokratesz - yes
Passes: 7/2

2. Self-destruct generates killmail if player is agressed (as with NPCs)

ElvenLord - yes
Alekseyev Karrde - yes
Zastrow J - yes
TeaDaze - no
Mrs Trzzbk - yes
Korvin - yes
Z0D - yes
Song Li - no
Sokratesz - yes
Passes: 7/2

3. selfdestruct "overheat" all modules

ElvenLord - no
Alekseyev Karrde - yes
Zastrow J - no
TeaDaze - no
Mrs Trzzbk - no
Korvin - no
Z0D - no
Song Li - no
Sokratesz - yes
Fails: 7/2

4. Selfdestruct timer depends on shipsize

ElvenLord - yes
Alekseyev Karrde - yes
Zastrow J - yes
TeaDaze - yes
Mrs Trzzbk - yes
Korvin - no
Z0D - yes
Song Li - yes
Sokratesz - yes

Raised 20th December 2009, as far as I'm aware CCP haven't even made a comment on it, so I don't think it's going to change. It's still probably one of the most idiotic mechanics in Eve though.


See? This is why CSM should be disbanded. They're all kb-humping tards.Lol
Misanthra
Alternative Enterprises
#29 - 2012-01-03 03:57:34 UTC
Simi Kusoni wrote:
Common examples:


  • Freighter jumps through a gate with an escort. You have a gang that is pretty evenly matched against the escort, you manage to kill them and whilst you do so the freighter self destructs. Small groups are forced to choose between good FCing, and just primarying the most expensive ships because no decent fight ever lasts less than two minutes.

  • Guy missions in an Aeon, you know what time of day he does it and where he does it. You have his cyno alts in your address book, and know where he is going to cyno out to. You know who he flies with and you know they're usually offline at that time of night. The ones that aren't you've run locators on to make sure they're not in jump range. You're happy you can kill him in <10 minutes, and that help won't arrive in that time. Thanks to SD timers you don't even bother trying because he'll just self destruct.


As for Epofhis' comment "Don't bring scrub fleets to supercap fights", if it's a scrub fleet why is the supercap self destructing?



call me practical...

that lost frieghter hurt the owner. I'll be nice, its the corps moon goo run. You just hurt their wallet. Wanted to hurt your enemy, mission accomplished. And I'll be nice, you wiped thier escorts. No moon goo sales for the day, dead logi's....they pay twice that day since most places kick some reimburement to the logi's who made the ultimate sacrifice. That moon goo jsut lost might have helped pay for that. Now its coming from another wallet section. Now the next moon goo run has to play catch up for that gank. Even better...if your spy did this right they will witch hunt the wrong guy(s) and they get the info for this next haul lol.


Pilot may not want to be left lingering to die for 10 minutes. Cold corps will let super mommy pilots die if they pve like tards and get caught. he knows he is dead, knows no help is coming. Can wait 10 for the boom or jsut speed it up. Latter gets him in that ratting ship faster to grind moar isk he will obviously need now. Also...a lost supoer is bad. Nothing says ouch like losing a mutlibillion dollar super. One less super on any recent hot drops you may encounter. Mission accomplished in my mind again. enemy has 6 supers....you force a sd.....they now have 5. Keep up the full court press and may get them down even more supers. How is that not a good thing? No km but hell....get someone down several supers by any means necessary still taking a big old crap in thier corn flakes lol.
Aqriue
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2012-01-03 11:16:24 UTC
Sydious wrote:
I don't know if this has been proposed in the past, but a quick search didn't turn up anything similar.

Stop searching for Audrey Bitroni, Gold Farming, Goat on Anvil Sex, and dumb things to do with a tomato that can get you killed. Otherwise, you failed hard time.

This
And This
And This too
And This as well
And oh look
And what is this ?
Not the last one, amirite?
Hah! It wasn't the last one

Sydious wrote:
In the same vein of how the logoffski trick has been removed in crucible, the self destruct is the only tactic that's still bothering supercap killers. So I propose a new idea that shouldn't be dificult to implement. As long as a ship is warp disrupted or scrammed, the self destruct shouldn't work. The only exception to this rule should be pods because you can't eject from a pod if somebody chooses to grief you by holding you in place.

See, here is why OP and every other other person with the same idea thinks SD is an exploit but fail to relize why logoffski is different.

Logoffski - get away, to FIGHT ANOTHER ******* DAY! Oh noes, I lose, *troll grin*, next day off I am going to try the trick again if I lose.

Self destruct - I am not winning, OH NOES! Self Destruct, I lose, *troll grin*, YOU pucker up you butthole in annoyance, my ship goes boom, we both go on with our day. I have to replace a ship, you lose nothing.

So, why the **** does everyone think self destruct is an exploit or needs to be fixed? Its gone, it has to be replaced, EVE economy goes back into high gear. Killmails are not needed, because thats PLAYER DRIVEN CONTENT THAT HAS ZERO F*CKING EFFECT AT ALL ON GAME CONTENT (capatlized, bolded, and underlined for effect). You know its gone, hey thats all you need to do as you don't need a reason at all to shoot someone and its not like there is honor in EVE because EVE isn't a ******* game of chess.

And here is another reason why SD is fine in a step by step format

1. 2 minutes. Who doesn't ******* know that? Oh, the OP so thats a rhetorical question

2. Plan around that 2 minutes. Not enough firepower, then damn you lost and it goes boom because it isn't logoffski away to safety. If a ganker can plan to gank a hulk under 30 seconds, then you too can plan to kill something in 2 minutes with sufficient firepower (bring more friends, keep a titan on hot drop alert ect)

3. Poof! My wallet is hurting. You didn't lose something, I did. But a killmail isn't necessary, because you are not obligated to ask me to take the ship from me so I am obligated to do everything necessary to deny it from you.

And the only reason SD bothers you

Because you let it.

Its like you brother staring at you in the car when you were 8 on a long trip with the family. Your brother is staring at you, but it bothes you, so he keeps on doing it. He isn't doing anything physical to you but staring at you and you get so emotional you have to scream at Mom/Dad "Brother is Staring at me!" . Which is like getting CCP to fix your issue with self destruct, because it bothers you someone would go out of their way to make your butthole pucker up in annoyance and rage that someone would do that to you.
Mark Hadden
Xynodyne
The Initiative.
#31 - 2012-01-03 11:33:15 UTC
self destruct is exactly for such situations when no other way is available to save your ship,
also it must work even more when scrammed and whatever.
De'Veldrin
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#32 - 2012-01-03 12:57:25 UTC
No. The only change necessary, in my opinion, is a kill mail generated to the person who did the most damage, with the final blow listed as self destruct.

Now you have proof you caused the destruction of said ship.

De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#33 - 2012-01-03 13:16:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Lord Zim
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:
No need to change the timers. The current system is working.

If you do not have the DPS to bring down the target in a few minutes the pilot deserves the chance to deny you loot and KM. So you need to drop him fast if you want that jucy loot and KM. Again it encourages group play.

And if someone is seriously passing up a chance to drop an enemy or neut capital because they wont get loot and KM.. That is well silly. Bring friends with enough DPS.

"Bring friends with enough DPS"? If someone selfdestructs, doesn't that indicate that they have brought friends with enough DPS? They apparently held the field and would chew through the rest of the ships, or why else would people selfdestruct?

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#34 - 2012-01-03 16:38:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Simi Kusoni
Misanthra wrote:
call me practical...

that lost frieghter hurt the owner. I'll be nice, its the corps moon goo run. You just hurt their wallet. Wanted to hurt your enemy, mission accomplished.

Reread my post.

The people I kill aren't my enemies. I presume you think all warfare is sov null style, "we must hurt them". It isn't. I just want their stuff.

Misanthra wrote:
And I'll be nice, you wiped thier escorts. No moon goo sales for the day, dead logi's....they pay twice that day since most places kick some reimburement to the logi's who made the ultimate sacrifice. That moon goo jsut lost might have helped pay for that. Now its coming from another wallet section. Now the next moon goo run has to play catch up for that gank. Even better...if your spy did this right they will witch hunt the wrong guy(s) and they get the info for this next haul lol.

Why on Earth do I need a spy to kill a freighter and what does that have to do with SD timers? And what's with this "I'll be nice" stuff? This isn't some dream like ideal situation you've just invented, it's pretty standard. Hell, I've killed freighters with considerably more expensive stuff than moon goo in. (and wiped out their scouts/escorts, incidentally. The last providence I killed had a falcon with an extra half bil of loot in. Made me lol when he decloaked and popped a cyno 2000m from me.)


Misanthra wrote:
Pilot may not want to be left lingering to die for 10 minutes. Cold corps will let super mommy pilots die if they pve like tards and get caught. he knows he is dead, knows no help is coming. Can wait 10 for the boom or jsut speed it up. Latter gets him in that ratting ship faster to grind moar isk he will obviously need now. Also...a lost supoer is bad. Nothing says ouch like losing a mutlibillion dollar super. One less super on any recent hot drops you may encounter. Mission accomplished in my mind again. enemy has 6 supers....you force a sd.....they now have 5. Keep up the full court press and may get them down even more supers. How is that not a good thing? No km but hell....get someone down several supers by any means necessary still taking a big old crap in thier corn flakes lol.

It's not a good thing because I have nothing against the guy I'm killing? I don't want to hurt him or his alliance, I'm just hoping he's gone with the standard fit and loaded up on a-type eanm's, x-type specific hardeners and officer mod mids.

If you just want to kill stuff for the sake of it, and you just want to use overwhelming force to do so, fine. But don't make all of us copy your "DPS IS EVERYTHING, WE MUST OUTNUMBER THEM 20 TO 1" play style.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]
Goose99
#35 - 2012-01-03 16:55:20 UTC
Simi Kusoni wrote:

It's not a good thing because I have nothing against the guy I'm killing? I don't want to hurt him or his alliance, I'm just hoping he's gone with the standard fit and loaded up on a-type eanm's, x-type specific hardeners and officer mod mids.


That is precisely why self destruct exist - to deny you loot. There used to be a concept called "ransoming" that some of us old timers may be familiar with. But I guess young people those days are all about kb-humping.Roll

Quote:
If you just want to kill stuff for the sake of it, and you just want to use overwhelming force to do so, fine. But don't make all of us copy your "DPS IS EVERYTHING, WE MUST OUTNUMBER THEM 20 TO 1" play style.


"Kb humping is everything! I must be validated through internet pixies that no one else noticed or cares about." What about that playstyle?

I've noticed 1 thing about kb humpers over the years:
-Each one only looks at his own kb stats, never that of others. They think they're the center of attention of the world, when no one else noticed their "accomplishment."Lol
Nestara Aldent
Citimatics
#36 - 2012-01-03 17:42:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Nestara Aldent
@Goose99

If you don't like the killboard, don't look at it. Problem solved.
Fidelium Mortis
Minor Major Miners LLC
#37 - 2012-01-03 18:02:04 UTC
Honestly, just knowing someone looses a ship is good enough for me. KB stats should be taken with a grain of salt anyway.

ICRS - Intergalactic Certified Rocket Surgeon
Goose99
#38 - 2012-01-03 18:03:52 UTC
Nestara Aldent wrote:
@Goose99

If you don't like the killboard, don't look at it. Problem solved.


I don't. And neither does anyone else, unless it's their own stats.Lol

But we're getting off topic, let us get back to the whine/butthurt of the kb-humpers and epeen strokers regarding self destruct.Cool
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#39 - 2012-01-03 18:14:27 UTC
Goose99 wrote:
That is precisely why self destruct exist - to deny you loot. There used to be a concept called "ransoming" that some of us old timers may be familiar with. But I guess young people those days are all about kb-humping.Roll

Good luck ransoming a super cap.

Goose99 wrote:
Nestara Aldent wrote:
@Goose99

If you don't like the killboard, don't look at it. Problem solved.


I don't. And neither does anyone else, unless it's their own stats.Lol

But we're getting off topic, let us get back to the whine/butthurt of the kb-humpers and epeen strokers regarding self destruct.Cool

I look at other people's killboards more than mine. Corp applied to join the alliance? Check their KB. Person applied to corp? Check their KB. Alliance wants blue status? Check their KB. Just because you're a carebear doesn't mean tools you don't personally use are useless for everyone else too.

Someone wants to join your alliance? Killboard looks good? Oh ok then. Reality: they've lost multiple capital ships because they go ratting in them, freighters because they jump through gates unscouted, they even once went mining in Rancer in a rorqual but you can't see that because they SD when they get tackled.

That might be a bit of an extreme example, but it's not entirely unrealistic. (I've actually seen someone SD a rorqual before, after he for some reason warped to a planet in it). Being able to hide stats like that is just silly, it should at least generate a loss mail.

Anyway, I digress, goose you aren't a PvPer, and if you were your only solution is "blob stuff". Sounds dull, go back to shooting asteroids and let us PvP toons have our small gang fun.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]
Goose99
#40 - 2012-01-03 18:25:14 UTC
Simi Kusoni wrote:
Goose99 wrote:
That is precisely why self destruct exist - to deny you loot. There used to be a concept called "ransoming" that some of us old timers may be familiar with. But I guess young people those days are all about kb-humping.Roll

Good luck ransoming a super cap.

Goose99 wrote:
Nestara Aldent wrote:
@Goose99

If you don't like the killboard, don't look at it. Problem solved.


I don't. And neither does anyone else, unless it's their own stats.Lol

But we're getting off topic, let us get back to the whine/butthurt of the kb-humpers and epeen strokers regarding self destruct.Cool

I look at other people's killboards more than mine. Corp applied to join the alliance? Check their KB. Person applied to corp? Check their KB. Alliance wants blue status? Check their KB. Just because you're a carebear doesn't mean tools you don't personally use are useless for everyone else too.

Someone wants to join your alliance? Killboard looks good? Oh ok then. Reality: they've lost multiple capital ships because they go ratting in them, freighters because they jump through gates unscouted, they even once went mining in Rancer in a rorqual but you can't see that because they SD when they get tackled.

That might be a bit of an extreme example, but it's not entirely unrealistic. (I've actually seen someone SD a rorqual before, after he for some reason warped to a planet in it). Being able to hide stats like that is just silly, it should at least generate a loss mail.

Anyway, I digress, goose you aren't a PvPer, and if you were your only solution is "blob stuff". Sounds dull, go back to shooting asteroids and let us PvP toons have our small gang fun.


Have you considered actually flying with them and get to know them for recruiting, rather than looking at fake kb stats? You know, make friends.Cool

For your example, you seem to believe kb is a reliable tool for intelligence, and anything but a joke. Let's for one second imagine it is, what entitles you to this free intelligence for recruiting? If they lost a freighter somewhere, you're entitled to know?Roll

Self destruct is working as intended - the whine and butthurt is the proof.