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Why even bother trying to fight anymore.

Author
Ioci
Bad Girl Posse
Somethin Awfull Forums
#61 - 2015-08-31 00:22:14 UTC
Average forced for all PvP game: LFG, LFG, LFG!
EVE forced for all PvP game: API verified LFG, API verified LFG, API verified LFG!!

R.I.P. Vile Rat

Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#62 - 2015-08-31 01:47:27 UTC
Malt Zedong wrote:
That was insensitive. Carebears are a important part of New Eden. Without them, who the "Elite PvPers" who only shoot ships that cant shot back would shoot ?

Probably npc structures

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Davis TetrisKing
The Vendunari
End of Life
#63 - 2015-08-31 02:34:32 UTC
OP, you're right that the game doesn't directly 'promote' conflict since you lose more for a loss than you get for a win. Personally I think it's one of the things that makes Eve stand out. When people shoot each other there is a net loss, not a net gain.

As for advice on what to do to actually play the game, can I suggest a few different things?

For an immediate way to keep playing try roaming. Go out and find a fight that you are willing to take (either solo or with a few corpies). Sometimes this takes a lot of time, many jumps and even then it can end badly, but you don't have to stay in the same system if you're being camped by overwhelming numbers.

Try contacting other people/corps in the militia. They may not come to your aid, but you might be able to go and join one of their fleets somewhere else in the warzone and still get to play. Not only that but you might make some contacts that you can call on in the future.

Remember that the game doesn't give you the right to have others play fair . Nothing in the mechanics restrict anyone else to honor 1v1s. But it does give you the tools to adapt what you fly, pick your fights, make friends and generally play to your strengths. Gatecamps can be avoided. But remember that if other people don't have to fight fair, neither do you. Do what you can to fight with the advantage.
Harrison Tato
Yamato Holdings
#64 - 2015-08-31 06:59:46 UTC
Delightful Delicacy wrote:
Val'Dore wrote:
Welcome to the Solo PvP curse. You will run from more fights than you will engage, and at times you will wonder why you bother. And then along will come that day when your solo ship of choice solo kills a small fleet or a very large and valuable target and you'll wonder why you ever doubted.


Solo pvp curse solod by smaller ship: https://zkillboard.com/kill/48566173/



I thought that was going to be something impressive like a Comet or a Slicer
Harrison Tato
Yamato Holdings
#65 - 2015-08-31 07:06:17 UTC
Gosh, this is some serious stuff.
Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon
Goonswarm Federation
#66 - 2015-08-31 07:21:00 UTC
You are patheitc.

TunDraGon is recruiting! "Also, your boobs [:o] "   CCP Eterne, 2012 "When in doubt...make a diȼk joke." Robin Williams - RIP

Malt Zedong
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#67 - 2015-08-31 09:22:24 UTC
There is a curse called PR. No one wants to upset customers, so they are oriented by professionals on what to say to envelop a message without getting too strong on "we do this to promote that, period" or "we dont care that this happen when we do that", but CCP is remarkably good at doint preciselly that.

CCP says that you need to have the sense that you may lose what you have. You will be forced to part ways from your property eventually. What you do when that moment comes is what matters. Cry is an option, you are free to do it.

WorldTradersGuild.Com [WTG] - We are here for the long haul.

Whitehound
#68 - 2015-08-31 09:35:46 UTC
Eugene Kerner wrote:
You are patheitc.

So is your spelling! Lol

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.

Mocam
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#69 - 2015-08-31 11:11:00 UTC
Well... If you are playing other stuff, you could always be a bit of a smartass. Fly a cloaky.

When they pile in, fly off to a spot, cloak up and type into local "AFK for a bit". Toggle and do something else for a while and keep checking back. EVE isn't a major drain while playing so it can just sit there.

You can find all sorts of interesting comments showing up in local doing this occasionally and they eventually get tired of it.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#70 - 2015-08-31 11:55:00 UTC
Mocam wrote:
Fly a cloaky.

When they pile in, fly off to a spot, cloak up and type into local "AFK for a bit".

Aww yeah, the best risk-reward profile.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Markus Reese
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#71 - 2015-08-31 13:12:59 UTC
Kapitan Rozrabiaka wrote:
i agree with you.

there should be some dedicated server for people who want to role play just 1 character.


I have solo charactered since I started. Never an alt. I play accordingly. Jump clones specialized ships, instawarps and allies. Planning amd foresight. FW is more than five people. Why not work with or call out to rest of militia. JC to someplace secure?

To quote Lfod Shi

The ratting itself is PvE. Getting away with it is PvP.

Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#72 - 2015-08-31 14:18:01 UTC
Markus Reese wrote:
Kapitan Rozrabiaka wrote:
i agree with you.

there should be some dedicated server for people who want to role play just 1 character.


I have solo charactered since I started. Never an alt. I play accordingly. Jump clones specialized ships, instawarps and allies. Planning amd foresight. FW is more than five people. Why not work with or call out to rest of militia. JC to someplace secure?

Solo charactered since you started? Never an alt? Last PvP interaction is more than one year ago and your are not in FW militia? Blink

I'm my own NPC alt.

Markus Reese
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#73 - 2015-08-31 15:32:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Markus Reese
Tipa Riot
Solo charactered since you started? Never an alt? Last PvP interaction is more than one year ago and your are not in FW militia? [;) wrote:


Did faction warfare a little. It never interested me much as I was a support player. The core concepts of the pvp with when I was in large alliance warfare was the same. Focus and foresight. Toss in planning and all is secure. I would have my carrier loaded with ships when we would have to move around. I relied on trusted corpmates for the cyno side. Lots of isk invested in CTA ships and all that jazz. Yeah, killboard isn't packed, but when doing full logistics stuff, not getting on killmails.... I have nothing to hide, nor do I have any shame. I quite like eve pvp. I just dislike the peeps usually and find other stuff as fun for my limited play time.

Solo character, well that I guess is a mis-term. I have never solo pvped, and I like large fleet stuff. Solo charactered was just meaning Markus is the char I got and the only one I have ever used... outside of other made characters on this account which are unused. One being my first character I made, the other is a clear forum troll.

The concepts still stand. I could be cyno trapped by the person lighting it. I could lose every ship I had in station and it would not affect me. Reason? I always have an out. The resource invested in a task is not all of my resource. If I was FW solo pvper, I would play the same. My main focus and play would be the solo op pvp, but I would have other systems staged that I could jump clone to or I would have ships and instawarp in my staging system making it impossible to trap me. It is an MMO, sometimes need to contact allies as well.

There is no reason any person should ever be so destitute they are at a point of no return. Even rookies mine for half an hour, buy some cheap turrets for their rookie ship and back to the races. Just gotta plan and play smart.

Isn't doing the same thing and expecting a different result the definition of insanity?

To quote Lfod Shi

The ratting itself is PvE. Getting away with it is PvP.

Velarra
#74 - 2015-08-31 16:27:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Velarra
Space ship combat in eve is about engaging in murder, the generation of fear and overwhelming the opposition. It's not sport, or competitive conflict*. It's harshness and consequences. If you ever find yourself in a fair fight it's a total accident and result of someone(s) making a terrible mistake.

*AT, NEO, & SiSi funtimez aside.
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Doomheim
#75 - 2015-08-31 16:46:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Ships and losses are the very fuel for content, and as such I assert ships should be as easily replaced as ammo.

Yet, in EvE we prioritize inflicting loss on others through ship losses, as more important than getting content (or fights).

We would rather have no fights for hours (or days), and then inflict a painful ship-loss on someone else, than getting constant fights and constant content with bigger and nice ships, and the owner getting a near-free replacement of said loss.

i.e. EvE players don't care about content quantity, they care about 'quality'?

All while starving for both, all the time, constantly scratching like chickens in the dirt for hours each time we log in. Nuts.

I would instead refocus 'loss' and inflicting pain on others in EvE around structures (and ships dropped from them), but have ships lost during combat 95% insurance covered, for free. A replacement (including mods) ship would waiting for the pilot the moment they dock in their home station and click 'Yes' to 'Rebuild last lost ship for [5% of total cost]?' prompt. This is what Elite:Dangerous does, and it works. No rampant risk aversion like in EvE. (Sure it is content-dry, but thats not because of risk-aversion, but because of raw population...)

Now I fully understand the impact to market, industry and EvE traditions with big ship losses as 'pain' drivers being removed, but again, you can't decry risk aversion on the one hand, or 'having' to always fly T1 crap or frigates/dessy's, and not confront this paradox we have in EvE of ship losses driving risk aversion.

CCP showed some balls with null sov changes. If they showed the same in getting an Elite:Dangerous styled 95% replacement insurance scheme working, they would really be onto something.

The time of logging in and not getting content after hours of scratching and sniffing is very year-2000 gaming. In the year 2015 if a paying subscriber who pvp's isn't getting a 'gudfight' in under an hour, there is something fundamentally wrong with mechanics. Not a silly frigate on frigate slap-fight, but real content, real ships.

The question is, are EVE players ready to do something about it, including the compromises that come with it.

F
Malt Zedong
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#76 - 2015-08-31 16:49:46 UTC
There is a server for people who like to roll solo pvp.

They get served all the time.

WorldTradersGuild.Com [WTG] - We are here for the long haul.

Velarra
#77 - 2015-08-31 16:57:24 UTC
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:
Ships and losses are the very fuel for content, and as such I assert ships should be as easily replaced as ammo.


This would kill eve and be bad. If you crave meaningless losses and 'fun' non-stop fighting SiSi has 6C waiting and ready to serve the desire for this.

Eve isn't a "sport". It's premeditated, patient conflict.
Malt Zedong
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#78 - 2015-08-31 17:05:24 UTC
Velarra wrote:
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:
Ships and losses are the very fuel for content, and as such I assert ships should be as easily replaced as ammo.


This would kill eve and be bad. If you crave meaningless losses and 'fun' non-stop fighting SiSi has 6C waiting and ready to serve the desire for this.

Eve isn't a "sport". It's premeditated, patient conflict.


Sadly my dear, that is what CCP says indeed. Ships must be as expandable as ammo.

I dont agree and that is why I dont "shake spears".

WorldTradersGuild.Com [WTG] - We are here for the long haul.

Darth Terona
Fancypants Inc
Pandemic Horde
#79 - 2015-08-31 17:14:28 UTC
Eve is absolutely a competition for me. Been doing solo pvp for a couple of years now.

I choose to play eve like call of duty. I spawn in, look for a kill, and respawn when I die. I repeatedly do this until I'm satisfied in any given gamming session.

I choose to look at the game as a game. I'm here to have fun. Fun for me is blowing people up.

Also don't worry about isk. A rifter is less than 300k. Mods can be salvaged from wrecks or rats.

I'm not that broke yet after years. Something always happens eventually to keep my wallet in the green.
Cidanel Afuran
Grant Village
#80 - 2015-08-31 17:48:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Cidanel Afuran
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:
I would instead refocus 'loss' and inflicting pain on others in EvE around structures (and ships dropped from them), but have ships lost during combat 95% insurance covered, for free. A replacement (including mods) ship would waiting for the pilot the moment they dock in their home station and click 'Yes' to 'Rebuild last lost ship for [5% of total cost]?' prompt. This is what Elite:Dangerous does, and it works. No rampant risk aversion like in EvE. (Sure it is content-dry, but thats not because of risk-aversion, but because of raw population...)


I get the idea, but my immediate thought was that all this would change is letting gankers fly more and more expensive ships...

A gank fit tornado is now only a 5 mil loss instead of 100? O_o

Maybe only get the 95% if the other dude shoots back at you?