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Why even bother trying to fight anymore.

Author
Hal Morsh
Doomheim
#21 - 2015-08-29 20:09:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Hal Morsh
Malt Zedong wrote:
All members of my corporation are my alts. All of them docked in a given place to get market orders in advantage.

Besides them, I have almost the same number of transport ship and freighter pilots to carry on the hauling.

And I do employ a large number of cruiser alts to carry on some killing.

For someone else, only their own vanity makes them diferentiate me alone using 30 pilots from 30 people with 1 pilot each.

You lost against, say, 10 pilots, it doesnt matter if it was 10 alts or 10 people, you would still lose the same way.




For me this is where the problem stems, and from experience 20~30 isboxed thrashers is less effective than 20~30 players in thrashers, it's more the problem of them being only an omnipresent enemy and nothing else because there are alts doing it rather than many people.

I'm also figuring from this thread that joining an involved group would be a wise choice. I just need to be active enough to participate.

Oh, I perfectly understand, Hal Morsh — a mission like this requires courage, skill, and heroism… qualities you are clearly lacking. Have you forgotten you're one of the bloody immortals!?

Malt Zedong
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#22 - 2015-08-29 20:20:38 UTC
Multiboxing is one thing. Using a software for that is another.

Your argument of effectiveness imply that everytime someone multiboxes, they are relying on mirrored input over a network of identical and repeating actuators. That is far from the truth.

The most effective multiboxers dont use hardware, or software to relay inputs over a miriad of clients. Instead they do play all the online chars by hand using clever coordination. And that my friend, is better than any same number of different people trying to coordinate their actions.

As you may think, doing that is complex, requires focus and patience, so you dont do that all the time just for kicks. So the most of the times, you will see people just running around multiboxing identical fits in relayed input systems, like isboxer.

But either way, it is still for the other person, nothing but pride in the way of just facing the number of oponents as they are rather than going around trying to feel yourself avenged by the fact that it was a multiboxer, not a group of real people.

WorldTradersGuild.Com [WTG] - We are here for the long haul.

Stitch Kaneland
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#23 - 2015-08-29 20:27:27 UTC
ISboxing/multiplexing inputs was banned. So, if they are using multiple accounts, it would have to be done manually, which is not as effective.

Regardless of that, I can solve this in about 5-10s of thought. Move.

If you are unable to counter their gangs effectively, and don't have the man power, leave to a different system. My homes always change. Sometimes, if their composition is too good, it can't be solo'd. That is something you will have to accept. Most of the time i know what I can and cannot fight (unless trap). Or i set my fits up so i can escape from blobs. Solo is just that, fighting outnumbered, you have to learn to separate or bait to operate effectively.

I had 3-4 stations with stuff in them when amarr steamrolled minmatar FW space. I was pushed to the entry system of minny space, and was basically staging out of rens for a week or so, since we had no systems. I'm not crying because a larger force pushed me out, its part of the game. You need to adapt your composition/skills, or you need to consider moving.
Hal Morsh
Doomheim
#24 - 2015-08-29 20:47:24 UTC
Stitch Kaneland wrote:
ISboxing/multiplexing inputs was banned. So, if they are using multiple accounts, it would have to be done manually, which is not as effective.

Regardless of that, I can solve this in about 5-10s of thought. Move.

If you are unable to counter their gangs effectively, and don't have the man power, leave to a different system. My homes always change. Sometimes, if their composition is too good, it can't be solo'd. That is something you will have to accept. Most of the time i know what I can and cannot fight (unless trap). Or i set my fits up so i can escape from blobs. Solo is just that, fighting outnumbered, you have to learn to separate or bait to operate effectively.

I had 3-4 stations with stuff in them when amarr steamrolled minmatar FW space. I was pushed to the entry system of minny space, and was basically staging out of rens for a week or so, since we had no systems. I'm not crying because a larger force pushed me out, its part of the game. You need to adapt your composition/skills, or you need to consider moving.



I will take this as the awnser. I'll probably have to move.

Oh, I perfectly understand, Hal Morsh — a mission like this requires courage, skill, and heroism… qualities you are clearly lacking. Have you forgotten you're one of the bloody immortals!?

Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#25 - 2015-08-29 20:53:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Rain6637
Going out by yourself isn't necessarily bad. If you want full control over what you do in space rather than being tied to a gang, go out as several characters.

Blah blah not efficient to control several characters without software. Just build a gang that has some reaction time buffers built in like range, and don't try to make anything kitey.
Hal Morsh
Doomheim
#26 - 2015-08-29 20:58:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Hal Morsh
Malt Zedong wrote:

The most effective multiboxers dont use hardware, or software to relay inputs over a miriad of clients. Instead they do play all the online chars by hand using clever coordination. And that my friend, is better than any same number of different people trying to coordinate their actions.

But either way, it is still for the other person, nothing but pride in the way of just facing the number of oponents as they are rather than going around trying to feel yourself avenged by the fact that it was a multiboxer, not a group of real people.



One co-ordinated person on 2 accounts could do better than 2 coordinated people depending on the people so that argument holds nothing. You also limit the situations you can put yourself in greatly without losing so don't assume things. You can't dogfight many accounts all at the same efficiency of many people, and the more accounts you are running, the worse off you are in the situation.



Give me a situation with some proof that I can't poke holes in with a butter knife.

Oh, I perfectly understand, Hal Morsh — a mission like this requires courage, skill, and heroism… qualities you are clearly lacking. Have you forgotten you're one of the bloody immortals!?

Malt Zedong
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#27 - 2015-08-29 21:19:15 UTC
You are using straw man argument there.

You are saying what you think a person does as the only thing anyone can do.

To coordinate a fleet, you need all people to follow the leader, to obey the leader, and not to think they can do anything better than the leader. In a fleet, the more pilots you have, the bigger the chance of someone not understanding or not obeying the plan. The more chance you have that the timing will be wrong, the more chance you have that some factor between people go wrong.

From all that possibilities, a true multiboxer only risks to have timing wrong or wrong acts by accident, which are the exact same multiplied by the number of people.

There is nothing preventing a sole person or a group of people to perform the same objective, they are only not advised to do the thing the same way.

You have the same idea of multiboxing as most people. You get your own experience and extrapolate, assuming that is what a multiboxer does.

I am a humble multiboxer, my setup is comprised of 2 machines and 4 screens, 2 keyboards and 2 mices. They are gaming ones so both mices have 16 buttons and both keyboards have 12 programmable keys. Markee Dragon shows in his videos a 6 screen setup, and I think it was 3 machines. I have a friend with one LED TV and 2 screens, running 4 machines. But whatever, the point is: Multiboxing is not an fixed thing, it is a form of play that has many flavours.

When I get to combat, which is not often, I attack in waves, I have a uber tank which barely move, bearing functional drones. That cripples the targets and holds the attack. Then a pour in funciotnal cruisers to cripple their attack and stale their defense. Pour in functional snipers, assigning drones to a frigate that will instalock big ships and get the drones dishing out. And finally, I warp some snipers to go sweeping the table. Behind them command ships giving bonuses. Each pilot instead of having the multiple skills, have their own role skill, because they are never solo, so they dont need to train more than their role to perform. Very fast I can have snipers, drone operators for function and hit, and tanks that make a Amarr BS pratically indestructible by any small ship horde.

I lose, of course. I win fleets bigger than my alt fleet, yes. I think it is fair ? no. I bother it is not ? no.

But you cant tell me that EVERY fleet of same number of people as my alts have an inherent advantage, because they dont.

WorldTradersGuild.Com [WTG] - We are here for the long haul.

Hal Morsh
Doomheim
#28 - 2015-08-29 22:02:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Hal Morsh
Malt Zedong wrote:
You are using straw man argument there.

You are saying what you think a person does as the only thing anyone can do.

To coordinate a fleet, you need all people to follow the leader, to obey the leader, and not to think they can do anything better than the leader. In a fleet, the more pilots you have, the bigger the chance of someone not understanding or not obeying the plan. The more chance you have that the timing will be wrong, the more chance you have that some factor between people go wrong.

From all that possibilities, a true multiboxer only risks to have timing wrong or wrong acts by accident, which are the exact same multiplied by the number of people.

There is nothing preventing a sole person or a group of people to perform the same objective, they are only not advised to do the thing the same way.

You have the same idea of multiboxing as most people. You get your own experience and extrapolate, assuming that is what a multiboxer does.

I am a humble multiboxer, my setup is comprised of 2 machines and 4 screens, 2 keyboards and 2 mices. They are gaming ones so both mices have 16 buttons and both keyboards have 12 programmable keys. Markee Dragon shows in his videos a 6 screen setup, and I think it was 3 machines. I have a friend with one LED TV and 2 screens, running 4 machines. But whatever, the point is: Multiboxing is not an fixed thing, it is a form of play that has many flavours.

When I get to combat, which is not often, I attack in waves, I have a uber tank which barely move, bearing functional drones. That cripples the targets and holds the attack. Then a pour in funciotnal cruisers to cripple their attack and stale their defense. Pour in functional snipers, assigning drones to a frigate that will instalock big ships and get the drones dishing out. And finally, I warp some snipers to go sweeping the table. Behind them command ships giving bonuses. Each pilot instead of having the multiple skills, have their own role skill, because they are never solo, so they dont need to train more than their role to perform. Very fast I can have snipers, drone operators for function and hit, and tanks that make a Amarr BS pratically indestructible by any small ship horde.

I lose, of course. I win fleets bigger than my alt fleet, yes. I think it is fair ? no. I bother it is not ? no.

But you cant tell me that EVERY fleet of same number of people as my alts have an inherent advantage, because they dont.



There ya go. Great example and now I believe you are quite capable of multi-boxing a competent combat fleet.
We don't really need to figure out if 5 people or 5 alts is more capable because it's perspective, and you have mentioned you can make mistakes.

The only real limit is how many you can commit before it becomes too much to handle.

Oh, I perfectly understand, Hal Morsh — a mission like this requires courage, skill, and heroism… qualities you are clearly lacking. Have you forgotten you're one of the bloody immortals!?

HeXxploiT
Doomheim
#29 - 2015-08-29 22:49:36 UTC
Bellatrix Invicta wrote:
Don't play solo.


It's not solo if you're going up against another player.

Op there is definitely a lot of truth in your argument. Thankfully CCP have been working to allow for gameplay styles that include pilots that are daring enough to play multiplayer vs a solo pilot or a small group. The game has been improving in this respect and as fozziesov and module tiericide come to fruition I believe it will continue to expand and support more playstyles.

Avvy
Doomheim
#30 - 2015-08-29 23:51:32 UTC
Kapitan Rozrabiaka wrote:
i agree with you.

there should be some dedicated server for people who want to role play just 1 character.



Why would they want to give me my own server? It would probably be too quiet, at least until others start putting alts onto the server.
Daniela Doran
Doomheim
#31 - 2015-08-30 00:15:29 UTC
Hal Morsh wrote:
Malt Zedong wrote:

The most effective multiboxers dont use hardware, or software to relay inputs over a miriad of clients. Instead they do play all the online chars by hand using clever coordination. And that my friend, is better than any same number of different people trying to coordinate their actions.

But either way, it is still for the other person, nothing but pride in the way of just facing the number of oponents as they are rather than going around trying to feel yourself avenged by the fact that it was a multiboxer, not a group of real people.



One co-ordinated person on 2 accounts could do better than 2 coordinated people depending on the people so that argument holds nothing. You also limit the situations you can put yourself in greatly without losing so don't assume things. You can't dogfight many accounts all at the same efficiency of many people, and the more accounts you are running, the worse off you are in the situation.



Give me a situation with some proof that I can't poke holes in with a butter knife.


You should at least have a link boosting alt and perhaps a ewar alt because they don't require as much focus as your main combat pilot.
Crystalline Entity
Black Dragon PHP
#32 - 2015-08-30 00:19:41 UTC
It happens,

For my alliance, it almost seem that when we roam the only thing we come across is brick tanked t3 cruisers and guardians..

It's kinda boring really, but adapt or die as the old saying goes! Smile
Kellie Dusette
Division 13
#33 - 2015-08-30 03:14:44 UTC
Kellie recommend Anoikis.

This one is a best space.

Watch a the youtube videos, find corps for to do a things make you go a "wowa!". App to this a corps, then live dream.

Kellie for did. Now Kellie elite pvps.

No for a salty, only suga.
Dale Liathain
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#34 - 2015-08-30 07:43:06 UTC
This is a silly thread.

OP goes to low to find fights.

OP finds fights.

OP complains about finding too many fights.

Just jump a few stargates, dude. Problem solved,
Yang Aurilen
State War Academy
Caldari State
#35 - 2015-08-30 08:35:37 UTC
As expected from someone who joined TWO LOSSES MINIMUM. Can't even help their fellow corpmates and are so bad at PVP the russians even **** on them. Why don't you join a REAL corp that has people that will teach you how to actually fight instead of camping the ikoskio gate and running away at the sight of a drake.

Either lose the corp or the sub because getting **** on by the russians is the worst thing to happen in eve.

Post with your NPC alt main and not your main main alt!

Terminal Insanity
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#36 - 2015-08-30 08:39:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Terminal Insanity
Hal Morsh wrote:
I logged off for an hour and they returned. I logged off, then on, then off, then waited a half a day and tried again but they still pile back INTO the system, and they chase me if I try flying further in, and so when I bring a t3 destroyer roam into system they aren't anywhere to be found


So. You bring overwelming numbers and kill things, all is well
They bring overwelming numbers and now its a bad thing.
you log out and complain about not being able to pvp.

they're probably saying 'why bother to fight? they just log out..."

also: read sun tsu

"War declarations are never officially considered griefing and are not a bannable offense, and it has been repeatedly stated by the developers that the possibility for non-consensual PvP is an intended feature." - CCP

Delightful Delicacy
Doomheim
#37 - 2015-08-30 09:38:35 UTC
Val'Dore wrote:
Welcome to the Solo PvP curse. You will run from more fights than you will engage, and at times you will wonder why you bother. And then along will come that day when your solo ship of choice solo kills a small fleet or a very large and valuable target and you'll wonder why you ever doubted.


Solo pvp curse solod by smaller ship: https://zkillboard.com/kill/48566173/
Malt Zedong
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#38 - 2015-08-30 10:04:55 UTC
When you go to a karate or kung fu class, and the instructor shows you a move that works, it works. He may never have used it, he may have used it and failed in execution, he may have used and killed someone.

I really dont expect that to be understood in a culture that glorifies scientific determinism, but I wont change mine to accomodate someone else's.

The fact that a homeless iliterate tells you 2 + 2 = 4 does not make it wrong and the fact that a phD says that decimal 2 + 2 = 5 does not make it right.

I use alts for a reason, I use my docked toons in a corp for a reason. Take what you want from what I say, I dont need to show killboards to back my arguments because they dont back anything.

I know about killboards, I fake them for my customers, I fake them for my own goals, I even fake them for the lols.

Recently I sold a character with impecable pvp history and marcenary prowess to a customer, to infiltrate a corporation enemy of his. That toon never fought one single enemy, and never killed one human controlled oponent. It just was built to show, and in a couple months, maybe he will accomplish its ends. I could post similar ill created killboards to back my story, like many of my customers and customers of my competitiors do all the time.

That really means nothing.

WorldTradersGuild.Com [WTG] - We are here for the long haul.

Misunderstood Genius
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#39 - 2015-08-30 10:05:17 UTC
Scatim Helicon wrote:
You're in a 55 person corp. Where are your corpmates and why are they not helping you to fight against "a few russians"?


A 55 person corp in EVE means: 35 of them are alts. 20 are mains. 10 are online. 8 are afk. P
Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar
#40 - 2015-08-30 10:11:23 UTC
Delightful Delicacy wrote:
Val'Dore wrote:
Welcome to the Solo PvP curse. You will run from more fights than you will engage, and at times you will wonder why you bother. And then along will come that day when your solo ship of choice solo kills a small fleet or a very large and valuable target and you'll wonder why you ever doubted.


Solo pvp curse solod by smaller ship: https://zkillboard.com/kill/48566173/


I can't tell if that was a brilliant double entendre or a fantastic accident of a troll attempt.

Star Jump Drive A new way to traverse the galaxy.

I invented Tiericide