EVE General Discussion

I think that 6-18 months ago CCP were using devs to run new player experience events, but as we can see that has mostly died off. It could never have worked since new players join every day and at all different times and have their own individual set of motivations. I think that if new players understood that "if I want to fly a raven I need to go to lowsec because highsec can't sustain the use of one" then many many more would go to lowsec.

This is not to be confused with capital ships which literally cannot be used in highsec at all and so training for one as a casual is a complete waste of time, above and beyond any other consideration a complete waste of time for someone who will never physically even get to sit inside it and spin it in their station.

This is talking about real and accessible ships that anybody can fly within a couple months, that have their definitive uses and drawbacks made clearer.

However this is what I said above, the whole thing about making fundamental changes to the game. Such as gate guns targeting yellows and reds automatically of their own volition without the need for actual witnessed aggression. Things such as reds being physically barred from highsec full stop so that being a pirate and trying to enter HIGH security space isn't actually possible and reinforces to -10's that their actions have consequences too. Tangible ones, including not being able to sit on gates and farm newbies for their killboards.

Things such as faction police having varying levels of activity in the 'new' lowsec and pirates being seen in lowsec too with actual pirate stations and "pirate police" on most 0.1 and 0.2 gates. Pirate missions inside of lowsec so that people don't HAVE to run the gauntlet of 0.0 bubble camps in order to experience that portion of the game.

These are ideas that would break a lot of hearts and a lot of spines for those whose lifestyle currently hinges on tired old mechanics that as Ishtanchuk Fazmarai said were appropriate back when the playing field between newbies and old players was more level, now it is not level and new players frequently feel like they've joined the game too late and that the easy answer is to buy an older character (which is frankly asking way too much of a new player, coughing up minimum $15 and up to $200+) just to be on a level where they can directly compete with the established player base and not be used as a foot stool. Saying SP doesn't matter is also an oxymoron since SP directly impacts on what you can fly, what modules you can equip and what activities you can perform. SP does matter, otherwise people wouldn't worry about it.



This is also not a universal rule. And not terribly relevant to todays sov system where you won't be alarm clocking fleets at all because the defending party is dictating which portion of your alliance is doing the legwork in taking sov. Actual POS sov should never, ever return because it gives guys like Mittani with their massive 14k+ man alliances too much leverage in convincing people to blue up and then just stack all your capital assets on the edges of your territory. Making money can be done by anyone who won't be there during a vulnerability window and furthermore if you're being marched lock-step in to every fleet available by your leadership without any consideration for the financial viability of it then they have a problem. Real life militaries supply their soldiers the equipment they need to fight, generally speaking, noone should be going pre-Marian reforms and having to supply their own gear all the time because a system based on endless growth is unsustainable. You cannot press the entire games population in to service on the battlefield because all other systems suffer entropy and eventually it all collapses under its own weight.

Commenting on some stuff I read:

- Supply and demand is far from being a unidimentional factor. You have, in a realistic measure, to take into consideration a lot of factors that end up being a meta sequence which is called supply and demand. The lack of that knowledge is the reason almost no one is good at trading IRL and in EVE. Flooding the market with something is not the only factor to decrease its price, and as you all know in the US, by the diamond example, starving the market alone wont get the price to rise.

- The forum still and always will be by its lack of representative sampling space, the worse measure of customer satisfaction. Once and twice the forum input happens to be the same as the other inputs, which doesnt make forum responses to be the factor driving the change. The same way devs dont do what a forum poster demands because other sources show them wrong, when they do what forum posts demand, they are answering most likely to a number of other sources including the forum among of them in a lower key.

- For everything I saw from EVE Online since I started playing, it remains the same core game whatsoever. IT has always displeased a lot of folks from time to time, everyone comes to forum to tell sov, null, low, hi, combat, pvp, pve, industry, and what not, is broken, that EVE is dead, doomed, decaying, forgotten, forsaken, whatever. I always saw by observing market and my ingame business partners that the oscilations in subs and noticeable changes in playerbase occurs for a big margin by people expanding or shrinking their pool of alts. I myself have something like 25 accounts summing the actives and inactives. I have had a max of 12 concurrently active at a given time, and a min of 2. I know people, due to the particulars of my work ingame, bearing 30 accounts, 40 accounts. I can asure you that if 50 people that I know of simply get to have 1 account, then the active number of subs will decrease by almost a thousand. That really doesnt mean much in a game that is notorious by its large number of multiboxers. In a time, I dont know if still exists, there were a group called "EVE Jihadin" or some such non-sense name, where the 60 or 70 people in there had something like 20 accounts each, and they just popped around killing random people with massive ganks of dozens of any people flying in their way. Others I know sustain dozens of accounts to get bots around to survey data for webistes. Number of subs means too little around here.

- People most often, and many even say that literally, that the game changed because of expectations they had. Expectations not met arent devs to blame. You expect something by your own, and there isnt much you see in the EVE online adverts that is not true. You see many things you will never get because for that you need money, friends, power and etc, but that is life, and that is the same as democracy and all the western good stuff you see on TV. The ones staying in the game are usually the ones who didnt created that expectations in the first place, or those who woke up and faced the game as it was and still is. Everyone around complaining about the game being broken for this or that, usually talk about things that NEVER really worked the way they say it did.

Funny think is that everyone has his own opinion on reasons restaurant is empty. Some claim that it's because of lack of tacos, other claim that burgers became worse off. Another opinion is that you can eat so much fast food because it becomes harmful to your life, no matter what exactly it is. Some had to move to another city.
But who is right and what do people have to back up their claims?

Are you saying Taco Bell has the better burgers while McDonalds is selling poor pizzas?

Are you saying it is more than Internet spaceships?

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Sorry I had to.


Your evidence is beaten by the active numbers when I happen to log in. Also, one snapshot of active numbers from one point of the day varies so damn much and doesn't show how many have logged in that day. There is 31k online as I post this, doesn't mean squat on it's own.

So it is multi-themed sandbox game and because it does not offer tacos does it lose players?

EVE is restaurant with no menu. You have the food out there, you just make your own meal.

People who like to be served, are better served elsewhere. Period.

People in EVE get served all the time.

It's about not being able to use a ship you spent a year of subscription time to get into.

We're not talking about "failure to offer tacos".

We're talking about offering tacos, taking an order for tacos from a customer, accepting their payment, and then deciding not to offer tacos anymore.


That upset a lot of longstanding players. A niche game with a difficult learning curve is not the kind of game that can afford to lose longstanding players.

So, yes, if they want those people to keep playing they really will need to find a way to make the SP investment turn out to be worth it. Maybe not removing jump fatigue. Perhaps by adding some content that is perfectly suited to capitals. But something.