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PI Blues
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Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#41 - 2012-01-02 11:33:47 UTC
SilentSkills wrote:
you sir, are an idiot, lowsec may be dead, but its far more dangerous than bluefested,cynojammed,intel-ridden 0.0


this is true, all of our systems are cynojammed, every one of them (you're dumb)

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Halcyon Ingenium
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#42 - 2012-01-02 11:47:04 UTC
Andski wrote:
SilentSkills wrote:
you sir, are an idiot, lowsec may be dead, but its far more dangerous than bluefested,cynojammed,intel-ridden 0.0


this is true, all of our systems are cynojammed, every one of them (you're dumb)


Most of your systems are raspberry jammed.

By the way, since we're already talking, do you want to buy a rifter? I've got the cheapest rifters in Metropolis. If you can find a cheaper rifter, buy it!
Thorn Galen
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
The Curatores Veritatis Auxiliary
#43 - 2012-01-02 13:51:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Thorn Galen
Lili Lu wrote:
There were lots of people predicting this in the deve blog thread. Made no difference, as with many changes CCP makes. The comments threads most of the time are an exercise in futility. It was very apparent that they wanted this for DUST. Hope they know what they're doing with that. In the meantime yeah, fewer people in lowsec.


If one reads through the dev blogs about this, there is no question about it. They did this to accommodate DUST, no two ways about it. In the interim, the Op is quite correct, it's just another nail in the Lowsec side of this sandbox. Bad decision by CCP, probably from listening to bad advice.

Before the screams start - I do not do PI, never have and don't want to, especially not now. I do however feel saddened that lowsec is dealt yet another bad hand. There are other existing conditions which should of and could of been addressed in order to prepare for the eventual DUST (read the Dev blogs), but face it CCP, this was a terrible decision. You're listening to the wrong people - again. Haemorrhaging paying customers - again. haemorrhaging / hemorraging for British and Americans

Remember Incarna.

Peace, out.
o/

COO - Bene Gesserit Chapterhouse  CEO - Sanctuary Pact Alliance
Lump Hammer
Doomheim
#44 - 2012-01-02 16:59:33 UTC
Tore Vest wrote:
Welcome back to highsec Bear


This.

PI in hi-sec is still very profitable despite the taxes. Sure, output volumes might be less, but there is still good isk to be made, especially if you use alts as well.
Xearal
Dead's Prostitutes
The Initiative.
#45 - 2012-01-02 19:48:17 UTC
I also find the idea that 'low sec is deader' because of this silly.

The region I'm living in, low sec and the adjoining npc nullsec space is more busy than ever, with people doing things left, right and center. Things USED to be much more quiet around here, but they've definitely livened up. There are several (medium) powerblocks that are vieing for control of a lot of planets, there's wardecs left and right, coalitions forming, breaking, people asking WTF just happened as they warp away with their pods, roams, gangs, camps, the works.

I also made a bundle selling all my reserve stocks I had been piling up when crucible hit. The massive spike in prices and panic was very very profitable.
My own setups have also changed, going back to the 'old' system of making P2s on the planets where I extract the goods.
For making higher end products, a POCO would definitely be recommended though, so you can extract everything you need, make P1s and assemble them to P3 or P4s at a planet with low/zero taxes.

Does railgun ammunition come in Hollow Point?
met worst
Doomheim
#46 - 2012-01-02 20:49:31 UTC  |  Edited by: met worst
Xearal wrote:

For making higher end products, a POCO would definitely be recommended though, so you can extract everything you need, make P1s and assemble them to P3 or P4s at a planet with low/zero taxes.

Hey, that's one of my points actually.

I had an entire chain happening, at the moment I cannot. It took one bored player to pop only one of the Interbus CO's to force my hand. Sure I can setup another planet of same mats in another system but I am now never sure where/what/who is going to pop the next one.

Given the uncertainty of it now and the inability to defend if I go "the POCO way" I chose to not bother. Many, many players in this game are casual industrialists and for me, I was doing the last thing left I could do casually and still get some thrills.

Just keep in mind, and I am sure CCP are well aware of this - my $15 per month per account as a casual industrialist is worth exactly the same as the most elite PvP'er or the highest alliance leader in the game.
met worst
Doomheim
#47 - 2012-01-02 21:07:16 UTC
Lump Hammer wrote:
Tore Vest wrote:
Welcome back to highsec Bear


This.

PI in hi-sec is still very profitable despite the taxes. Sure, output volumes might be less, but there is still good isk to be made, especially if you use alts as well.

Agreed but the added risk of using lowsec to make this profit was also my motivation. The risk is still there but I can't be bothered with lowsec politics and standovers to do PI which is what is making lowsec even more pointless.

Keep in mind that the politics and crap in null is/was enough to push many, many people back to high - now CCP are (inadvertently perhaps) adding lowsec to the "It's mine" alliances as well.

My OP was a commentary based on this very point.
Thaylon Sen
The Boondock Saints
#48 - 2012-01-02 22:31:51 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
No RL industrialist or Business person would tolerate a 30% tax on ANYTHING

Except Apple's app store ofc.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#49 - 2012-01-03 16:11:21 UTC
met worst wrote:
Keep in mind that the politics and crap in null is/was enough to push many, many people back to high - now CCP are (inadvertently perhaps) adding lowsec to the "It's mine" alliances as well.


sorry, badposting forum alt, but that was the anom nerf with the accompanying buff to highsec PvE, not politics which have always existed in nullsec.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#50 - 2012-01-03 16:14:40 UTC
met worst wrote:
I had an entire chain happening, at the moment I cannot.
Have you actually tried, or did you just give up at first sight?
Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#51 - 2012-01-03 17:11:59 UTC
Andski wrote:
met worst wrote:
Keep in mind that the politics and crap in null is/was enough to push many, many people back to high - now CCP are (inadvertently perhaps) adding lowsec to the "It's mine" alliances as well.


That was the anom nerf


quoting for truth
Karl Planck
Perkone
Caldari State
#52 - 2012-01-03 17:20:29 UTC
so much butthurt in this thread. xD

Really though, with all this "lowsec is dead" crap. The ppl doing PI RARELY yield kills in lowsec. They aren't adding much to the environment so with them gone it just less cloakies in a system.

I has all the eve inactivity
met worst
Doomheim
#53 - 2012-01-03 21:01:05 UTC
Andski wrote:
met worst wrote:
Keep in mind that the politics and crap in null is/was enough to push many, many people back to high - now CCP are (inadvertently perhaps) adding lowsec to the "It's mine" alliances as well.


sorry, badposting forum alt, but that was the anom nerf with the accompanying buff to highsec PvE, not politics which have always existed in nullsec.

The BS that goes on in in nullsec has always been a factor to people going in and then leaving. The anom nerf and Incursions introduction was just another reason.
met worst
Doomheim
#54 - 2012-01-03 21:11:04 UTC
Tippia wrote:
met worst wrote:
I had an entire chain happening, at the moment I cannot.
Have you actually tried, or did you just give up at first sight?

Been there and did it Tippia. What prompted my OP was going to do PI and seeing another Interbus CO popped and having stuff stranded again while determining who owned what and where and when it was going to be replaced etc. etc.

The decision on whether I should 1) put up my own POCO or 2) wait and see what happened or 3) shift that PI elsewhere (which is also quite expensive when done frequently) is a PITA when you have chains running.

It'd be like mining and having to warp to every asteroid after you finish one all day. It's just too tedious doing it every day. PI is painful enough as it is!

And in fairness to the thread trolls, this was never a whine, it was an observation and I was curious whether other people felt the same. When stuff turns into an inconsistent tedium (deliberate term) people generally give up. It's not burnout, it's frustration.
met worst
Doomheim
#55 - 2012-01-03 21:12:47 UTC
Karl Planck wrote:
so much butthurt in this thread. xD

Really though, with all this "lowsec is dead" crap. The ppl doing PI RARELY yield kills in lowsec. They aren't adding much to the environment so with them gone it just less cloakies in a system.

But "they" went there yeah? And "rarely" has always been more than "none".
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#56 - 2012-01-03 21:22:16 UTC
met worst wrote:
Tippia wrote:
met worst wrote:
I had an entire chain happening, at the moment I cannot.
Have you actually tried, or did you just give up at first sight?
Been there and did it Tippia. What prompted my OP was going to do PI and seeing another Interbus CO popped and having stuff stranded again while determining who owned what and where and when it was going to be replaced etc. etc.
That sounds an awful lot like “no”.

It's still entirely possible to have those chains going — you just have to get the business relationship(s) going.
Velicitia
XS Tech
#57 - 2012-01-03 21:26:21 UTC
Halcyon Ingenium wrote:
Andski wrote:
SilentSkills wrote:
you sir, are an idiot, lowsec may be dead, but its far more dangerous than bluefested,cynojammed,intel-ridden 0.0


this is true, all of our systems are cynojammed, every one of them (you're dumb)


Most of your systems are raspberry jammed.


only one person would DARE give me the raspberry!

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
met worst
Doomheim
#58 - 2012-01-03 21:29:34 UTC
Tippia wrote:
met worst wrote:
Tippia wrote:
met worst wrote:
I had an entire chain happening, at the moment I cannot.
Have you actually tried, or did you just give up at first sight?
Been there and did it Tippia. What prompted my OP was going to do PI and seeing another Interbus CO popped and having stuff stranded again while determining who owned what and where and when it was going to be replaced etc. etc.
That sounds an awful lot like “no”.

It's still entirely possible to have those chains going — you just have to get the business relationship(s) going.

Agreed. It's also one of my points. Taking it up the proverbial yet one more time to be able to play is also very, very tedious. More of the game gets put into the hands of the "haves" and the "have-nots" can go jump.

IMHO, the game is further turning into a

1) You are either small and have to suck it up.
2) You have to be big or join big.

The middle ground is being eroded away. Game intent? No idea. But I betcha there's a lot like me in the same boat.
IGNATIUS HOOD
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#59 - 2012-01-03 23:24:32 UTC
met worst wrote:
Mentat Cthulhu wrote:
WAS no NEED or WANT except DUST release APPROACHING and TOO many PEOPLE making TOO much ISK with TOO little RISK

I'm confused by this belief that there was too much isk to be made.

I ran an experiment maxing 5 chars to make Robotics only. The most I could make on *5* chars was 100m a day - if - the market prices held above 60k each. And the amount of clickwork to do that was stupid.

For mine, it can only be a Dust 514 motivation and I am simply not interested in FPS so where does that leave me. Back mining or missioning? Sucking it up in some nullsec alliance? It was my last vestige of "fun".

The question remains, is CCP prepared to lose me - an RL money player with 5 accounts - to pick up a twitch speed teenager with ADHD who will quit for something else within a few months?



You're doing it wrong.
"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats."   --H.L. Mencken
IGNATIUS HOOD
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#60 - 2012-01-03 23:25:19 UTC
met worst wrote:
Tippia wrote:
met worst wrote:
Tippia wrote:
met worst wrote:
I had an entire chain happening, at the moment I cannot.
Have you actually tried, or did you just give up at first sight?
Been there and did it Tippia. What prompted my OP was going to do PI and seeing another Interbus CO popped and having stuff stranded again while determining who owned what and where and when it was going to be replaced etc. etc.
That sounds an awful lot like “no”.

It's still entirely possible to have those chains going — you just have to get the business relationship(s) going.

Agreed. It's also one of my points. Taking it up the proverbial yet one more time to be able to play is also very, very tedious. More of the game gets put into the hands of the "haves" and the "have-nots" can go jump.

IMHO, the game is further turning into a

1) You are either small and have to suck it up.
2) You have to be big or join big.

The middle ground is being eroded away. Game intent? No idea. But I betcha there's a lot like me in the same boat.


Yes I think its game intent. Is that bad? I don't think so.
"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats."   --H.L. Mencken