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Crime & Punishment

 
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Thunderdome - July 2015 series!
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Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
#421 - 2015-08-27 02:56:31 UTC
Noragen Neirfallas wrote:
Madness to fit anything else

The all t2/meta version still does 600 and 300 without the invuls

Best passive fits are capless passive fits. Your peak tank is a bit lower, but you're 100% neut-proof.

Details aside, yeah, no industrial or barge is going to even come close to breaking that.

Relatively Notorious By Association

My Many Misadventures

I predicted FAUXs
Leto Thule
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#422 - 2015-08-27 03:26:54 UTC
Bronson Hughes wrote:
Noragen Neirfallas wrote:
Madness to fit anything else

The all t2/meta version still does 600 and 300 without the invuls

Best passive fits are capless passive fits. Your peak tank is a bit lower, but you're 100% neut-proof.

Details aside, yeah, no industrial or barge is going to even come close to breaking that.


Should we do something else with the round before its too late?

Thunderdome ringmaster, Community Leader and Lord Inquisitor to the Court of Crime and Punishment
Noragen Neirfallas
Emotional Net Loss
#423 - 2015-08-27 03:37:59 UTC
Leto Thule wrote:
Bronson Hughes wrote:
Noragen Neirfallas wrote:
Madness to fit anything else

The all t2/meta version still does 600 and 300 without the invuls

Best passive fits are capless passive fits. Your peak tank is a bit lower, but you're 100% neut-proof.

Details aside, yeah, no industrial or barge is going to even come close to breaking that.


Should we do something else with the round before its too late?

YES. I believe I said this already Blink

Member and Judge of the Court of Crime and Punishment

Noragens basically the Chribba of C&P - Zimmy Zeta

Confirming that we all play in Noragen's eve. - BeBopAReBop

ISD Buldath favorite ISD

'"****station games" - Sun Tzu' - Ralph King Griffin
Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#424 - 2015-08-27 03:44:05 UTC
Bronson Hughes wrote:
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
I have been surprised frankly that anyone used short/medium range fits when there's no drawback to sniper fits unless you get caught.

The issue with sniper fits is that you have to also be able to deal with someone who gets in under your guns. That means tank and tackle, or being mobile enough to dictate range for the entire fight, which makes fitting a bit interesting. A typical fleet sniper fit would likely die in a fire in Thunderdome.

The benefit to short/medium range fits is always DPS, and if Thunderdome has taught me anything it's that DPS is secondary to tactics.

Leto Thule wrote:
I know right.

Get your matches moving people!

The first battleship match is happening before week's end. If this one keeps to recent trends, the victor will be at about 5% structure with all modules 90% burnt and nearly out of ammo and Noragen will be rolling around on the ground screaming at the monitor after he watches the video. Blink



It seems like a kite fit not limited by the necessity of holding point should be able to maintain range pretty easy. You have 50-150k to work with depending on fit and ship size, and you should be faster than a brawler. My only real concern would be e-war.
Leto Thule
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#425 - 2015-08-27 03:47:27 UTC
Noragen Neirfallas wrote:
Leto Thule wrote:
Bronson Hughes wrote:
Noragen Neirfallas wrote:
Madness to fit anything else

The all t2/meta version still does 600 and 300 without the invuls

Best passive fits are capless passive fits. Your peak tank is a bit lower, but you're 100% neut-proof.

Details aside, yeah, no industrial or barge is going to even come close to breaking that.


Should we do something else with the round before its too late?

YES. I believe I said this already Blink


Die in a fire.

But yes, you did.

Ok, suggestions? I wanna make the loser round bracket championship something...different.

Thunderdome ringmaster, Community Leader and Lord Inquisitor to the Court of Crime and Punishment
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
#426 - 2015-08-27 03:56:49 UTC
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
It seems like a kite fit not limited by the necessity of holding point should be able to maintain range pretty easy. You have 50-150k to work with depending on fit and ship size, and you should be faster than a brawler. My only real concern would be e-war.

Without giving too much away, what I can tell you is that kitey battleships are much more constrained by cap than kitey cruisers. Ouch.

Also, damps have been relatively common to counter snipers, so you'd have to rely either on luck or sniping from beyond damp range (which is pretty damned long).

I'm not saying they can't work; I've used them to good effect myself. They're just...interesting to fit and fly in this setting.

Relatively Notorious By Association

My Many Misadventures

I predicted FAUXs
Noragen Neirfallas
Emotional Net Loss
#427 - 2015-08-27 06:04:50 UTC
Leto Thule wrote:
Noragen Neirfallas wrote:
Leto Thule wrote:
Bronson Hughes wrote:
Noragen Neirfallas wrote:
Madness to fit anything else

The all t2/meta version still does 600 and 300 without the invuls

Best passive fits are capless passive fits. Your peak tank is a bit lower, but you're 100% neut-proof.

Details aside, yeah, no industrial or barge is going to even come close to breaking that.


Should we do something else with the round before its too late?

YES. I believe I said this already Blink


Die in a fire.

But yes, you did.

Ok, suggestions? I wanna make the loser round bracket championship something...different.

Losers round screams rookie ships at me...

Member and Judge of the Court of Crime and Punishment

Noragens basically the Chribba of C&P - Zimmy Zeta

Confirming that we all play in Noragen's eve. - BeBopAReBop

ISD Buldath favorite ISD

'"****station games" - Sun Tzu' - Ralph King Griffin
Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#428 - 2015-08-27 09:51:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Demerius Xenocratus
Bronson Hughes wrote:
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
It seems like a kite fit not limited by the necessity of holding point should be able to maintain range pretty easy. You have 50-150k to work with depending on fit and ship size, and you should be faster than a brawler. My only real concern would be e-war.

Without giving too much away, what I can tell you is that kitey battleships are much more constrained by cap than kitey cruisers. Ouch.

Also, damps have been relatively common to counter snipers, so you'd have to rely either on luck or sniping from beyond damp range (which is pretty damned long).

I'm not saying they can't work; I've used them to good effect myself. They're just...interesting to fit and fly in this setting.


I'm thinking more of cruisers when I say these things, maybe nano BCs. Battleship 1v1 is gonna be an odd duck...it's not something that really ever happens.

Are you guys just doing T1 BS? Or are faction allowed?
Leto Thule
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#429 - 2015-08-27 12:09:52 UTC
Noragen Neirfallas wrote:

Losers round screams rookie ships at me...


So it is written, so shall it be done.

Time to dust off my taipan.

Thunderdome ringmaster, Community Leader and Lord Inquisitor to the Court of Crime and Punishment
Noragen Neirfallas
Emotional Net Loss
#430 - 2015-08-27 12:23:13 UTC
Leto Thule wrote:
Noragen Neirfallas wrote:

Losers round screams rookie ships at me...


So it is written, so shall it be done.

Time to dust off my taipan.

I'm breaking out a gank catalyst to watch this. For science of course

Member and Judge of the Court of Crime and Punishment

Noragens basically the Chribba of C&P - Zimmy Zeta

Confirming that we all play in Noragen's eve. - BeBopAReBop

ISD Buldath favorite ISD

'"****station games" - Sun Tzu' - Ralph King Griffin
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
#431 - 2015-08-27 15:20:34 UTC
Denizens of C&P, the first battleship has been felled in the name of Thunderdome.

Watch here.

Kill report available here.


I will provide analysis later so as not to ruin the video, but for now I will say this: range dictation in a battleship is far more...interesting than in smaller vessels.

Enjoy.

Relatively Notorious By Association

My Many Misadventures

I predicted FAUXs
lmmortalist
lmmortality Associates
#432 - 2015-08-27 17:59:46 UTC
There is not very much to analyze on my part. This fight equaled range dictation. I spent a few hours on the eft trying to figure out the best possible fit out of rather many different battleship hulls and found this one to have very few weaknesses. On my part the strategy was to simply hold my range for as long as possible and when caught I would switch to a brawling mode (which I was prepared for as well). Unfortunately the fight never went all the way to that point.

I was prepared for some serious micro management with creating bookmarks around the grid when trying to kite but in the end didn't end up using those since Bronson's mobile micro jump units ended up working as nice beacons for warping around whenever necessary.
Tengu Grib
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#433 - 2015-08-27 18:08:07 UTC
lmmortalist wrote:
There is not very much to analyze on my part. This fight equaled range dictation. I spent a few hours on the eft trying to figure out the best possible fit out of rather many different battleship hulls and found this one to have very few weaknesses. On my part the strategy was to simply hold my range for as long as possible and when caught I would switch to a brawling mode (which I was prepared for as well). Unfortunately the fight never went all the way to that point.

I was prepared for some serious micro management with creating bookmarks around the grid when trying to kite but in the end didn't end up using those since Bronson's mobile micro jump units ended up working as nice beacons for warping around whenever necessary.


Rattlesnake was a strong choice. I agree, it has a lot of strengths, and not many weaknesses.

Well done sirs, entertaining to watch to say the least.

Rabble Rabble Rabble

Praise James, Supreme Protector of High Sec.
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
#434 - 2015-08-27 18:09:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Bronson Hughes
lmmortalist wrote:
I was prepared for some serious micro management with creating bookmarks around the grid when trying to kite but in the end didn't end up using those since Bronson's mobile micro jump units ended up working as nice beacons for warping around whenever necessary.

This was the one fatal flaw in my theorycrafting. I built a ship focused entirely on maintaining a range of 25-30km and assumed that I would be warping around to achieve it...but didn't stop to think that my opponent may be doing the same thing. Once I realized that I couldn't dictate range, I knew the fight was over. I tried to kill your drones hoping to stem the incoming DPS, but it was a total Hail Mary. Maybe, just maybe, if I had popped my first MMJD before warping to you so you didn't have a free warp-to I would have been able to hold you and at least applied some DPS.

We'll never know, but either way you managed to exploit a fatal flaw in my theorycrafting, and I died in a fire for it. Well done sir. I hope to redeem myself against you in the finals.

Tengu Grib wrote:
Rattlesnake was a strong choice. I agree, it has a lot of strengths, and not many weaknesses.

Well done sirs, entertaining to watch to say the least.

The Rattler is incredibly powerful 1v1. The only reason I didn't go with one myself was the fact that I had used a Gila several times before and I was trying to be unpredictable.

Relatively Notorious By Association

My Many Misadventures

I predicted FAUXs
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#435 - 2015-08-27 18:36:30 UTC
You came to a battleship fight without a warp scrambler! I can't believe anyone would do that.
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
#436 - 2015-08-27 18:52:01 UTC
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
You came to a battleship fight without a warp scrambler! I can't believe anyone would do that.

When one bases their entire fit on staying out of warp scramble range, a warp scrambler doesn't seem so essential.

I guess the takeaway here is that planning on engaging at 30km, solo, in a battleship isn't necessarily a good idea.

Ugh

Relatively Notorious By Association

My Many Misadventures

I predicted FAUXs
Leto Thule
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#437 - 2015-08-27 20:43:45 UTC
Congrats to Immortalist for finally toppling the reigning champ!

Bracket updated

Thunderdome ringmaster, Community Leader and Lord Inquisitor to the Court of Crime and Punishment
Leto Thule
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#438 - 2015-08-27 20:46:31 UTC
Tengu Grib wrote:

Rattlesnake was a strong choice. I agree, it has a lot of strengths, and not many weaknesses.

Well done sirs, entertaining to watch to say the least.


Its like a big Gila that reps.

Thunderdome ringmaster, Community Leader and Lord Inquisitor to the Court of Crime and Punishment
Tengu Grib
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#439 - 2015-08-27 23:02:19 UTC
Leto Thule wrote:
Tengu Grib wrote:

Rattlesnake was a strong choice. I agree, it has a lot of strengths, and not many weaknesses.

Well done sirs, entertaining to watch to say the least.


Its like a big Gila that reps.


It's drones are noticeably less mobile though. I guess that's one thing against it. It's drones are either slow and can be outrun (maybe not by a BS but still) or stationary and have to contend with tracking and fixed optimal.

Rabble Rabble Rabble

Praise James, Supreme Protector of High Sec.
Valkin Mordirc
#440 - 2015-08-28 02:30:24 UTC
Tengu Grib wrote:
Leto Thule wrote:
Tengu Grib wrote:

Rattlesnake was a strong choice. I agree, it has a lot of strengths, and not many weaknesses.

Well done sirs, entertaining to watch to say the least.


Its like a big Gila that reps.


It's drones are noticeably less mobile though. I guess that's one thing against it. It's drones are either slow and can be outrun (maybe not by a BS but still) or stationary and have to contend with tracking and fixed optimal.



Rattler with a Gecko is extremely horrible to contend with in brawling range. However since Thunderdome doesn't really have a range limit, like you would have with a standard fight or the AT, I think the Sentry drones are the best choice as you can just pop around and just drop more. It's really hard to kill a sentry from a rattler, then trying to chase down another set that's 100km is rather annoying I'd imagine.
#DeleteTheWeak