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Dual tanking - Procurer

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Abraham Kennedy
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2015-08-27 13:02:49 UTC
Tiberius Heth wrote:
Tbh, a procurer isn't exactly a logical target to go for because it already has way more EHP than its counterparts. Because of that you just have to add some resists/extenders and then you're fine to add modules that augment your mining as there's really no need for this "must maximise my EHP at all cost because :reasons:" hysteria.

[Procurer, Tanked]
Mining Laser Upgrade II
Mining Laser Upgrade II

Survey Scanner II
Medium Shield Extender II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II

Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal I

Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I

Hobgoblin II x5
Mining Drone II x5


Your fit is nearly the exact fit I was going to try. How was your results the times your were ganked? What is the total HP with your fit?
I feel the purpose of the procurer is mining first and tanking second. Once the mining is maxed, use the rest for tanking the shields is the thoughts I have on this but it is untested by me.

THanks for replying.
Abraham Kennedy
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#22 - 2015-08-27 13:15:14 UTC
Bitevni Shalina wrote:
Harry Forever wrote:
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
If you are going to dual tank, you should use bulkheads (hull) not armor.

[Procurer, 88K]
Damage Control II
Reinforced Bulkheads II

Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
EM Ward Field II
Medium Shield Extender II

Modulated Strip Miner II

Medium Transverse Bulkhead I
Medium Transverse Bulkhead I
Medium Transverse Bulkhead I


Loyd must know the right fit, he only lost 2000 ships this year



Modulated Strip Miner II without mining crystal? Yield will be lower, than with Modulated Strip Miner I... Very few gankers use trashers - most use catalysts and so EM hardener is useless. I think I posted much better fits with relevant stats in OP's other thread about very same matter.


THe other post started out as a question about MLU's on strip miners and it expanded, as most threads do, to tanking. I wanted to catch other peoples' views on tanking a Procurer that were not following my OP. It worked.

I am sorry that you had to read the same subject twice and I appreciate your help.
Tiberius Heth
Doomheim
#23 - 2015-08-27 13:18:09 UTC
Abraham Kennedy wrote:
Tiberius Heth wrote:
Tbh, a procurer isn't exactly a logical target to go for because it already has way more EHP than its counterparts. Because of that you just have to add some resists/extenders and then you're fine to add modules that augment your mining as there's really no need for this "must maximise my EHP at all cost because :reasons:" hysteria.

[Procurer, Tanked]
Mining Laser Upgrade II
Mining Laser Upgrade II

Survey Scanner II
Medium Shield Extender II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II

Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal I

Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I

Hobgoblin II x5
Mining Drone II x5


Your fit is nearly the exact fit I was going to try. How was your results the times your were ganked? What is the total HP with your fit?
I feel the purpose of the procurer is mining first and tanking second. Once the mining is maxed, use the rest for tanking the shields is the thoughts I have on this but it is untested by me.

THanks for replying.



Against the damage types that matter you have 60+K EHP which is in the realms of "more than enough" to avoid casual ganking, they'll simply go for another target. Would you make it personal somehow, in that they're going for you rather than just a random miner then no amount of tank will save you so there's no point in even trying. A fit like that is enough to mine in 0.5 space (again, assuming you're not standing out somehow) without issues.

They will scan your ship, some random venture will enter your belt and will start mining but it's actually a scout providing intel and warp in. Your best defense is to not be a target in the first place which means flying the right ship with the right modules while not having silly expensive stuff onboard. If you fit the tank as listed, perhaps with some named invuls, then they'll do the math and come to the conclusion that there's far easier and juicier targets to gank so they will leave you alone.
Abraham Kennedy
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#24 - 2015-08-27 13:23:39 UTC
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
Hull tank is awesome, your shields and armour go and then you just see your Hull hp stuck as if it were bugged :p

also a lot of the time lulls people into a false sense of security/confidence


I am not sure I understand your post. Did you say if you tank your hull, the damage only goes so far to your hulls then stops? I cannot see the hull being invulnerable ever, otherwise everyone would do it and no ships would get destroyed.

What did you mean please?
Abraham Kennedy
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#25 - 2015-08-27 13:42:15 UTC
Tiberius Heth wrote:
Abraham Kennedy wrote:
Tiberius Heth wrote:
Tbh, a procurer isn't exactly a logical target to go for because it already has way more EHP than its counterparts. Because of that you just have to add some resists/extenders and then you're fine to add modules that augment your mining as there's really no need for this "must maximise my EHP at all cost because :reasons:" hysteria.

[Procurer, Tanked]
Mining Laser Upgrade II
Mining Laser Upgrade II

Survey Scanner II
Medium Shield Extender II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II

Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal I

Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I

Hobgoblin II x5
Mining Drone II x5


Your fit is nearly the exact fit I was going to try. How was your results the times your were ganked? What is the total HP with your fit?
I feel the purpose of the procurer is mining first and tanking second. Once the mining is maxed, use the rest for tanking the shields is the thoughts I have on this but it is untested by me.

THanks for replying.



Against the damage types that matter you have 60+K EHP which is in the realms of "more than enough" to avoid casual ganking, they'll simply go for another target. Would you make it personal somehow, in that they're going for you rather than just a random miner then no amount of tank will save you so there's no point in even trying. A fit like that is enough to mine in 0.5 space (again, assuming you're not standing out somehow) without issues.

They will scan your ship, some random venture will enter your belt and will start mining but it's actually a scout providing intel and warp in. Your best defense is to not be a target in the first place which means flying the right ship with the right modules while not having silly expensive stuff onboard. If you fit the tank as listed, perhaps with some named invuls, then they'll do the math and come to the conclusion that there's far easier and juicier targets to gank so they will leave you alone.


EXCELLENT ADVICE! THere is no need for me to fly to lo-sec with this ship right now. I am already making good ore income in the area I am based now and I don't see it changing so quickly that I will need to move.
The NPC's that attack me now are just gnats with this set up, due to my drone skills, and I constantly watch local. If I see more than one red-painted enter my system, I prepare for leaving and warp if they stay too long, as if they are d-scanning. I've picked a system nearby that has low traffic right now and I've learned the names of the residents.

Right now I am in a good spot. {yes yes yes, I understand how things change in EVE, trolling readers}
Paranoid Loyd
#26 - 2015-08-27 13:49:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Paranoid Loyd
Harry Forever wrote:
Loyd must know the right fit, he only lost 2000 ships this year

Learn to read a KB Harry, the 2000 ships have been lost over a 2 year period. Approximately half of those losses are the loss of a shuttle when I pull concord off the gate. Of the other half, 98% of those losses where planned to be losses and those losses resulted in a net gain of approximately 200 mil isk per loss based on an average kill of 400 mil.

TL;DR I have made approximately 200 bil isk by losing 2000 ship.

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#27 - 2015-08-27 16:07:24 UTC
Abraham Kennedy wrote:
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
Hull tank is awesome, your shields and armour go and then you just see your Hull hp stuck as if it were bugged :p

also a lot of the time lulls people into a false sense of security/confidence


I am not sure I understand your post. Did you say if you tank your hull, the damage only goes so far to your hulls then stops? I cannot see the hull being invulnerable ever, otherwise everyone would do it and no ships would get destroyed.

What did you mean please?


No, he just means that you have so many Hull hitpoints that it does down very slowly. Normally Hull goes disturbingly fast.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Bellatrix Invicta
Doomheim
#28 - 2015-08-27 16:10:18 UTC
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
Harry Forever wrote:
Loyd must know the right fit, he only lost 2000 ships this year

Learn to read a KB Harry, the 2000 ships have been lost over a 2 year period. Approximately half of those losses are the loss of a shuttle when I pull concord off the gate. Of the other half, 98% of those losses where planned to be losses and those losses resulted in a net gain of approximately 200 mil isk per loss based on an average kill of 400 mil.

TL;DR I have made approximately 200 bil isk by losing 2000 ship.


TL;RDR Shut up, Harry.

If you think you've won, think again.

The CODE always wins.
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#29 - 2015-08-27 16:56:15 UTC
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
Hull tank is awesome, your shields and armour go and then you just see your Hull hp stuck as if it were bugged :p

also a lot of the time lulls people into a false sense of security/confidence

For this reason hull tank is often referred to as bait tank

Want to talk? Join Cara's channel in game: House Forelli
zzzra
New Eden Shipwright LLC
#30 - 2015-08-27 17:08:57 UTC  |  Edited by: zzzra
With a procurer without a survey scanner I'm finding that overmining... that is finding out at the end of a cycle that the asteroid is empty is happening roughly 1 cycle out of 3. If we assume it's at a random time during that cycle, on average you will be wasting half of every third cycle, or 1/6 = 16%.
You can avoid this to some degree by turning the miner off and on repeatedly, if you have the capacitor to do that.

I'm thinking that the price of a middle slot for a survey scanner is good value for getting back a good portion of this 16%.
Much better value than a mining upgrade in place of damage control in a low slot.

The overmining is a trap that doesnt show up when you compare the mining rates of the covetor and procurer on eft. It looks like the procurer cones reasonably close in yield, but the overmining is so much more of a problem on the procurer. That's because the procurer laser might clear a roid in about 2-3 cycles but a covetor laser might take 6-7. So the half cycle you lose at the end is a larger % for the procurer.

The survey scanner isn't someting I'd bother with on a covetor, not only because there is less wastage to worry about but also its hard work trying to organize it with 3 lasers. Which laser is minging which rock etc etc.
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#31 - 2015-08-31 18:36:28 UTC
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
Rawketsled wrote:
[You being aggressed creates a LE.

You're confusing it with auto aggressing people that shoot your MTUs... which did get patched out.


Wrong, if you perform no hostile action you do not get a limited engagement timer.

that appears to be correct.

I just tested it, drones will not attack someone going criminal and shooting you on their own.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#32 - 2015-09-03 04:48:07 UTC
Another lowslot option is a Higgs Anchor.

This improves your GTFO chances significantly as you can stay aligned for much longer.

No use whatsoever if your AFK though :D
Paranoid Loyd
#33 - 2015-09-03 07:21:30 UTC
*Higgs Anchors go in a rig slot, only one can be fit

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#34 - 2015-09-04 01:00:15 UTC
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
*Higgs Anchors go in a rig slot, only one can be fit


True, my bad.
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