EVE General Discussion

Ah if only there were no jump freighters.

No, insurance is not an isk sink. Let me explain why


*Kaboom* goes your battleship. You just lost 200 million isk, but insurance gives you some money to compensate. Still though, the money they didn't give back went out of the economy, right?

Hell no!

You bought that ship, and those modules and rigs for isk. Yes. Does that mean the money you spent to get it was lost when your ship explodes? NO! The industrialist or traded that sold you the ship still has it! It wasn't an isk sink, it was an isk transanction!
But come on, that industrialist had to buy the minerals, surely that's an isk sink? Wrong again! That isk is currently sitting in some poor, afk miner's wallet right now. And, oh ****, Code is bumping you, and, OH NO THE MINER GOT GANKED! Then his friendly insurance company pays him money, and he uses an isk transaction (not sink) to purchase another barge or exhumer.

Such is the circle of Eve economics. What this means is, every time a ship explodes, X amount of isk is injected into the economy, while only a miniscule amount (through the trade tax of purchasing a new ship) is lost. because buying a ship doesn't mean the isk dissapears! It just means you're giving it to somebody else!

Every transaction on market has the broker fees, etc. That is the sink. So if we are blowing up lots of little ships, that means lots of little transactions. In the end, still a surplus from the reward. But it we looked at net earnings... If a drifter incursion ans sansha incursion had net isk incomes the same, the increased transactions to complete sites means the net for the entire operation from manufacturing through to completion is less.

Without Jamyl do not wish to see such an Empire.
Let the it burn in Hell.

I've heard some reports it won't stop until capsules make it stop, hence my comment aboutto Macaper's Fourth Procephy.

The isk would enter the system some way. The most direct if we had no insurance is person goes and rats, isk to buy another drifter incursion ship. If they trade market as their income, it buy/sells around until somebody rats/missions/etc to add isk to system. The isk enters somewhere. While it may be just 1%, a hundred 10mil isk ships still boots more out than if they had a bil isk ship. Person still spent a billion, still got the initial isk from somewhere.

With insurance, they just need less of the initial capital investment saved up. One that billion is made up of insurance, the other is ratting, etc somewhere down the line.

It can get quite convoluted the more we think about it. Bling fits with faction stuff, well somebody sent isk out via the LP store. Navy ships and all that. Deadspace stuff is supply and demand only so the selling of it only has the market tax value. Manufactured items, so Meta 0 and T2 have multiple steps that spend isk. So it really isn't answerable if we think about it. Not without putting together a full cost breakdown of a typical build and where every penny comes from, goes to, is paid for and all that.

But end of day, bounty isk, mission isk, insurance isk, it all has to be added to the system at some point.

I was only trying to dispell any myths about isk faucets and sinks, but since forum rule 666 demands that once a limited forums pvp engagement has taken place, one must play devils advocate with the other engagee until it the thread sinks to the bottom of the page and both have made a total fool of themselves...

Tbh I don't even know what we're arguing anymore. For sure it's gone beyond, or more likely completely off of the topic of whether or not losing a ship is an isk sink or faucet. I can't really make heads or tales of what you're trying to say anymore, although that may be because I'm getting tired.

Btw here's that link.

Just a few points- Faction modules are an isk sink, because they vanish isk and LP to give you a faction module. Deadspace modules are only an isk sink when traded, applying that 1% tax. Actually, scratch that, you have to kill rats to find those modules, which makes it an isk faucet, albiet a small one.
-1% of 100x 10mil ships is still the same amount as 1% of 1x 1bil ships.
-Just because it'd enter into the system some way doesn't prove any points. That's like saying he did hard work, so I should get a reward too.
-Insurance is a way of softening losses, so you basically can't lose all of your isk at once, and helps PvPer's wallets. However, it has the unfortunate side effect of being an isk faucet.

Incase we are actually still debating whether or not losing a ship is an isk faucet or not, you said we'd have to make a total breakdown to figure it out... here

--> Miner has 100 mil isk, he mines 20 million isk of ore.
--> Industrialist with 100 mil isk buys that 20 million isk of ore. Because of tax the miner only gets 19.8 mil isk. (total -.2 mil isk from economy). Now the industrialist has 80 mil isk and the miner has 119.8 mil isk.
-->Industrialist makes that into 25 million isk of ships and modules. (Notice, isk in economy has not yet changed, that is expected value you can acquire for it, not raw isk).
--> Farmer with 100 mil isk buys all of it for 25 million isk. Because of tax the industrialist only gets 24.75 mil isk. (total -.25 mil isk from economy). Now the industrialist has 104.75 million isk and the farmer 75 million isk. (note the miner has the other 19.8 mil isk)
--> Farmer loses his ship because *reasons*. His friendly insurance company gives him a pat on the back and 10 million isk (total +10 million isk into the economy). Now the miner has 119.8 mil isk, the industrialist 104.75 mil isk, and the farmer 85 mil isk, for a grand total of 309.55 million isk, while only starting from 300 million isk.
--> The cycle continues and the isk faucet pours isk.

I might just stop posting after this, I'm getting tired of arguing.

I don't but this would be a good reason to start.

fecking thread hijackers.

is the butt hurt that bad that you must broadcast the fact daily? within every thread you can ram it into?

reminder

The topic is: UPDATE: DRIFTER INCURSIONS HAVE BEGUN!!

The topic is not: The random whine about your butt hurt thread.

ISK sent to NPCs = sink
ISK sent from NPCs = faucet
ISK sent between PCs is an exchange

Very simple

Buying insurance is "paying 25% into the sink"


Getting the payout is a faucet because it came from NPCs (not the PC you bought the ship from)

Insurance is small beans though. Having broke pod pilots means people with unusable characters. No one wats that level of misery