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Warfare & Tactics

 
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Stepping into Faction Warfare

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Torbrand Mandero
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2015-08-23 04:26:16 UTC
As a newbro myself dabbling in FW over the past two weeks, I'll share my notes:

  • First, I agree totally with removing T3 destroyers and Pirate Faction frigs from small and novice plexs respectively. The whole point of different grades to me seems to be to allow players to find an even and fun fight. Getting blasted in seconds by a vet or pirate isn't fun, and drives new players away.

  • I never even considered getting into a corp since I was just playing there while I looked for a new corp outside of strictly FW activities. Some kind of automated message in militia or npc corp channels could help direct new players to using the corp search tool to find specifically FW centered corporations to join. Maybe also directing them to form non-corporation NPSI type fleets (although I'm sure this is totally possible in the militia channel, it was rare for me to see anyone actually forming fleets up for FW in the militia chats.)

  • I don't know if this is asking too much, but having to deal with an npc rat in a plex and another player usually means you'll lose. It's hard to pay attention to both at once. Maybe the AI of plex rats could be modified so they only respond once aggressed?

  • There seems to be a lack of focus on the actual objective of FW, which is capturing plexes to capture systems. I get this, because lots of people are simply looking for fights. I feel like some plexes take too long to capture. Sitting 20 minutes on a plex in order to capture it isn't fun. Maybe a mechanic could be introduced to speed up the capture times if there are more players in the plex of the same faction? That'd serve the purpose of making capturing plexes less time consuming and motivate people to fleet up

    • Hopefully that feedback helps. I didn't spend too much time in FW and my knowledge of all the mechanics isn't perfect, so forgive me if some of the info above is incorrect or if I've missed important details (such is probably likely.) I feel that making FW more new player friendly is definitely a good priority, as it's the only place where a new player can feasibly be successful at PVP. Other areas of the game punish new players for low sp and t1 ships because just about everyone has a better ship and more skill that you, so unless you're in a fleet you usually don't stand a chance. For that reason, I feel like getting pirate frigs out of novice plexes and t3 destroyers out of small plexes is probably the simplest fix and one most important to helping new players enjoy FW.
    Silverbackyererse
    Deep Core Mining Inc.
    Caldari State
    #22 - 2015-08-23 05:20:43 UTC
    Sugar Kyle wrote:


    I understand your request but that is not the direction that I will find what I need. I need to know what is needed jow and what pain points there are. I don't need people to temper and try to design it. I need them to share what is said and heard and expierence from logging in each day.


    Understood. You need feedback from the newer characters not the old, bitter and twisted ones who've forgotten what it was like to be new to faction war and low security space.

    Can I throw throw one more thought out there before I move on?

    Change the name of the novice complex to something like minor complex (might want to make sure there's no spelling mistake on that one too - there's enough Ventures 'mining' in them as it is).
    One suspects that the current nomenclature is giving the new folks who run them a false sense of security. Blink

    / Flees.


    Seriously though, good luck mate and thanks for all your effort on low sec and FW in particular.
    Julius Foederatus
    Federal Navy Academy
    Gallente Federation
    #23 - 2015-08-24 20:25:44 UTC
    Since new FW guys get disproportionately camped in high sec systems, I think removing both the faction navy, and the ability for WTs to dock in enemy high sec would go a long way to making their time in FW a little easier.
    Yang Aurilen
    State War Academy
    Caldari State
    #24 - 2015-08-24 23:28:58 UTC
    Dear CCP please fix the default overview of all newbros. Like seriously he was shooting at our entire fleet because he sees us as suspects/pirates. Said newbro in question: https://zkillboard.com/kill/48626902/

    I mean damn everyone was telling him stop even the guys in his fleet.

    Post with your NPC alt main and not your main main alt!
    Crosi Wesdo
    War and Order
    #25 - 2015-08-24 23:41:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Crosi Wesdo
    Default window layout and overview has to be the single worst part of new player experience in any and all pvp FW included.

    It doesnt make any sense that to even play the game you have to first fix the UI layout.
    Nameira Vanis-Tor
    Sebiestor Tribe
    Minmatar Republic
    #26 - 2015-08-25 02:07:58 UTC
    Yang Aurilen wrote:
    Dear CCP please fix the default overview of all newbros. Like seriously he was shooting at our entire fleet because he sees us as suspects/pirates. Said newbro in question: https://zkillboard.com/kill/48626902/

    I mean damn everyone was telling him stop even the guys in his fleet.


    Although this is a common problem it is much easier to fix now that you can link and share overview layouts.
    Yang Aurilen
    State War Academy
    Caldari State
    #27 - 2015-08-25 02:28:06 UTC
    Nameira Vanis-Tor wrote:
    Yang Aurilen wrote:
    Dear CCP please fix the default overview of all newbros. Like seriously he was shooting at our entire fleet because he sees us as suspects/pirates. Said newbro in question: https://zkillboard.com/kill/48626902/

    I mean damn everyone was telling him stop even the guys in his fleet.


    Although this is a common problem it is much easier to fix now that you can link and share overview layouts.


    That usually only happens once one of you dies(usually the newbie) since most people won't stop shooting at some one they're shooting if they asked for it since it might be a trick.

    Post with your NPC alt main and not your main main alt!
    Aerasia
    Republic University
    Minmatar Republic
    #28 - 2015-08-25 14:25:57 UTC
    Silverbackyererse wrote:
    One suspects that the current nomenclature is giving the new folks who run them a false sense of security. Blink
    On the other hand, there should be a complex which does fit the novice.

    Ideally? No pirate, no faction, no links. If you're going to tell a 8 day old character to throw themselves into lowsec to pew, at least give them an area to do so on as equal a footing as they can get. Given the choice, I'd say expand the entire complex system so that it better tiers fights (i.e. T3Ds in Smalls problem). But that's not exactly a newbie problem.

    Another problem is logistics - As a week old toon, you don't want to put your training on hold for a month to train up an industrial alt. You also don't realize that the opposing faction likes to camp the highsec pipes for people who didn't drop FW while doing a resupply run. If you're part of a FW corp, hopefully they do that for you because you don't even have the option of going neutral to get a new supply of hulls.

    There are some other smaller factors like, "How do I earn ISK to fund my explosions in FW?" not being terribly obvious. L1 FW doesn't earn jack (especially if your faction is currently Tier 1 as well), and both that and plex farming run into the same shipping problems as getting your hulls out of highsec.

    There is probably something to be said about how difficult frigate combat is to learn, but that might be more of a 'bringing solo back' problem than a proper FW one.
    Dispex
    Aliastra
    Gallente Federation
    #29 - 2015-08-26 07:17:54 UTC
    Extra tickboxes in the ingame-corp-search-tool for each race under the FW-tickbox would have eased my long search for the corp I have now.
    Veskrashen
    Deep Core Mining Inc.
    Caldari State
    #30 - 2015-08-26 13:01:14 UTC
    From my perspective:

    1. Changes to default overview as noted above.
    2. More resources in General Militia on active FW corps - possibly GenMil MOTD?

    I think that between more obvious resources to help players find active FW corps, and a default overview that doesn't get you killed, you'll solve the biggest friction points.

    I feel that there's a lot of things that we FW players can do to educate folks in NPC militia corps, and that we're probably better positioned than CCP to take on the mentoring roles that a lot of folks have asked for above.

    Not me specifically though - a patient understanding teacher I am not!

    We Gallente have a saying: "CCP created the Gallente Militia to train the Fighters..."
    Flynn Fetladral
    Tempered Aggression
    Seker Matar
    #31 - 2015-08-26 17:28:20 UTC
    Dispex wrote:
    Extra tickboxes in the ingame-corp-search-tool for each race under the FW-tickbox would have eased my long search for the corp I have now.


    I’d second something along these lines. It’s rather difficult to find FW corps in general in-game. I believe in the past you could actually see all the corps listed (I might be imagining this however)?

    Oh and we used a little officer mods. KIDDING! We used a lot of officers mods, A LOT! Because we don’t :censored: around in low-sec.

    @flynnfetladral on #tweetfleet
    Thanatos Marathon
    Moira.
    #32 - 2015-08-27 13:34:40 UTC
    Veskrashen wrote:
    From my perspective:

    1. Changes to default overview as noted above.
    2. More resources in General Militia on active FW corps - possibly GenMil MOTD?

    I think that between more obvious resources to help players find active FW corps, and a default overview that doesn't get you killed, you'll solve the biggest friction points.

    I feel that there's a lot of things that we FW players can do to educate folks in NPC militia corps, and that we're probably better positioned than CCP to take on the mentoring roles that a lot of folks have asked for above.

    Not me specifically though - a patient understanding teacher I am not!



    Guess we need to find someone who wants to run a newbie training corp. I would be willing to donate some time to the cause, but don't think I'm up for running it either at this point.

    JUSTK is recruiting
    Moglarr
    Operation Meatshield
    #33 - 2015-08-27 22:06:33 UTC
    Thanatos Marathon wrote:
    Veskrashen wrote:
    From my perspective:

    1. Changes to default overview as noted above.
    2. More resources in General Militia on active FW corps - possibly GenMil MOTD?

    I think that between more obvious resources to help players find active FW corps, and a default overview that doesn't get you killed, you'll solve the biggest friction points.

    I feel that there's a lot of things that we FW players can do to educate folks in NPC militia corps, and that we're probably better positioned than CCP to take on the mentoring roles that a lot of folks have asked for above.

    Not me specifically though - a patient understanding teacher I am not!



    Guess we need to find someone who wants to run a newbie training corp. I would be willing to donate some time to the cause, but don't think I'm up for running it either at this point.



    Just send them my way. GalMil doesn't really need the new blood anyway, and I like having people to Yolo with.

    Operation Meatshield! GETUP and fight!
    Thanatos Marathon
    Moira.
    #34 - 2015-08-28 14:57:04 UTC
    FW specific opportunities (open a plex, complete a plex, etc.).

    JUSTK is recruiting
    Nicholas Goldfinder
    Pandemic Horde Inc.
    Pandemic Horde
    #35 - 2015-08-28 22:12:01 UTC
    I think giving suspect status to whoever enters a plex is bad for FW, because it gives away the position of a player, especially if that player is in a militia.

    A good alternative would be to give limited aggression timer. Being specific, it does not give away unnecessary information and allows sec status to not be wasted.
    Tek Stalker
    Rapid Withdrawal
    Pen Is Out
    #36 - 2015-08-29 18:47:05 UTC
    The first 3 things that come to mind for me are.

    1.) Overview help. So many new pilots make the mistake of targeting a bitter old vet in the same militia. He in turns replies with killing that pilot for his mistake. Let’s face it for new pilots the Overview can be a bit too much handle.

    2.) Suspect Timers when hitting plex gates. Most new pilots learn very fast. That neutrals and pirates warp into your plex looking for PvP. Taking the standing hit for attacking them or waiting for them to aggress you in awful. If you’re active it doesn’t take long for your security status to become an issue. This is a real issue for players in NPC or small corporations that don’t have low sec logistics. Flying to your trade hub to get a ship with the fear of NPC's killing you is not good.

    3.) Enemy Militia being able to sit outside high sec LP hubs and blap new pilots all day long is a problem. They do the work to get enough LP to get some items or ship. These items are lost to veteran pilots with nothing else to do. I am not sure this encourages pilots to stick with Faction Warfare. You would think your faction police would respond like Concord.

    These ideas are to make FW better for new pilots and pilots that are new to Eve.
    Yang Aurilen
    State War Academy
    Caldari State
    #37 - 2015-08-30 23:51:12 UTC
    Tek Stalker wrote:
    The first 3 things that come to mind for me are.

    1.) Overview help. So many new pilots make the mistake of targeting a bitter old vet in the same militia. He in turns replies with killing that pilot for his mistake. Let’s face it for new pilots the Overview can be a bit too much handle.

    2.) Suspect Timers when hitting plex gates. Most new pilots learn very fast. That neutrals and pirates warp into your plex looking for PvP. Taking the standing hit for attacking them or waiting for them to aggress you in awful. If you’re active it doesn’t take long for your security status to become an issue. This is a real issue for players in NPC or small corporations that don’t have low sec logistics. Flying to your trade hub to get a ship with the fear of NPC's killing you is not good.

    3.) Enemy Militia being able to sit outside high sec LP hubs and blap new pilots all day long is a problem. They do the work to get enough LP to get some items or ship. These items are lost to veteran pilots with nothing else to do. I am not sure this encourages pilots to stick with Faction Warfare. You would think your faction police would respond like Concord.

    These ideas are to make FW better for new pilots and pilots that are new to Eve.


    Indeed. I'm all for your first proposal. The second one needs tweaking such that militia members don't get suspect timers and only neutrals get it. Also buff the faction navy to faction police level and you'll probably see a drop in highsec FW ganking.

    Post with your NPC alt main and not your main main alt!
    Veskrashen
    Deep Core Mining Inc.
    Caldari State
    #38 - 2015-08-31 01:33:50 UTC
    Yang Aurilen wrote:
    Tek Stalker wrote:
    The first 3 things that come to mind for me are.

    1.) Overview help. So many new pilots make the mistake of targeting a bitter old vet in the same militia. He in turns replies with killing that pilot for his mistake. Let’s face it for new pilots the Overview can be a bit too much handle.

    2.) Suspect Timers when hitting plex gates. Most new pilots learn very fast. That neutrals and pirates warp into your plex looking for PvP. Taking the standing hit for attacking them or waiting for them to aggress you in awful. If you’re active it doesn’t take long for your security status to become an issue. This is a real issue for players in NPC or small corporations that don’t have low sec logistics. Flying to your trade hub to get a ship with the fear of NPC's killing you is not good.

    3.) Enemy Militia being able to sit outside high sec LP hubs and blap new pilots all day long is a problem. They do the work to get enough LP to get some items or ship. These items are lost to veteran pilots with nothing else to do. I am not sure this encourages pilots to stick with Faction Warfare. You would think your faction police would respond like Concord.

    These ideas are to make FW better for new pilots and pilots that are new to Eve.


    Indeed. I'm all for your first proposal. The second one needs tweaking such that militia members don't get suspect timers and only neutrals get it. Also buff the faction navy to faction police level and you'll probably see a drop in highsec FW ganking.

    They're already talking about suspect timers on plexes, which would solve a lot of problems IMO.

    Having NPC Navies that actually made a difference so that highsec was actually less dangerous in practice than lowsec would really help too. Though watching my alliance mates nuke people in Jita is hillarious, I must admit...

    We Gallente have a saying: "CCP created the Gallente Militia to train the Fighters..."
    Yang Aurilen
    State War Academy
    Caldari State
    #39 - 2015-08-31 10:29:23 UTC
    Veskrashen wrote:
    Yang Aurilen wrote:
    Tek Stalker wrote:
    The first 3 things that come to mind for me are.

    1.) Overview help. So many new pilots make the mistake of targeting a bitter old vet in the same militia. He in turns replies with killing that pilot for his mistake. Let’s face it for new pilots the Overview can be a bit too much handle.

    2.) Suspect Timers when hitting plex gates. Most new pilots learn very fast. That neutrals and pirates warp into your plex looking for PvP. Taking the standing hit for attacking them or waiting for them to aggress you in awful. If you’re active it doesn’t take long for your security status to become an issue. This is a real issue for players in NPC or small corporations that don’t have low sec logistics. Flying to your trade hub to get a ship with the fear of NPC's killing you is not good.

    3.) Enemy Militia being able to sit outside high sec LP hubs and blap new pilots all day long is a problem. They do the work to get enough LP to get some items or ship. These items are lost to veteran pilots with nothing else to do. I am not sure this encourages pilots to stick with Faction Warfare. You would think your faction police would respond like Concord.

    These ideas are to make FW better for new pilots and pilots that are new to Eve.


    Indeed. I'm all for your first proposal. The second one needs tweaking such that militia members don't get suspect timers and only neutrals get it. Also buff the faction navy to faction police level and you'll probably see a drop in highsec FW ganking.

    They're already talking about suspect timers on plexes, which would solve a lot of problems IMO.

    Having NPC Navies that actually made a difference so that highsec was actually less dangerous in practice than lowsec would really help too. Though watching my alliance mates nuke people in Jita is hillarious, I must admit...


    What I'm saying is don't give the FW guys suspect timers. Just give it to neutrals because why in the world would your random FW dude doing an intended game mechanic get a suspect timer for?


    Post with your NPC alt main and not your main main alt!
    Nicholas Goldfinder
    Pandemic Horde Inc.
    Pandemic Horde
    #40 - 2015-08-31 12:01:10 UTC
    Giving suspect timers to neutrals entering plexus is a bit strong and counter intuitive, because the real act of aggression is made by the FW dude of the opposing militia, that enters the plex to increase contestation in the system.

    Giving limited aggression timer solves the problem better, because everyone can get it without it being weird.