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The Snowman
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2012-01-03 11:25:47 UTC
Essentially a bookmark is merely a set of coordinates, a string of numbers, text. so why can those coordinates not be sent to anyone via a simple text message?

Why, in this ultra futuristic environment have we not yet invented text messaging? Why should one have to create a physical item and trade it to another?

Even when Eve Online was being developed, why did someone decide that a set of coordinates, which is just a string of text, would need to become a physical item in order to communicate it to another person?
Graic
Time Sync
#2 - 2012-01-03 11:27:06 UTC
File it under the same way I can't drop 20 pounds.
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
#3 - 2012-01-03 11:31:25 UTC
A humming bird flaps its wings insanely fast, why can't I do that with my arms?

Signature removed for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne
Tallianna Avenkarde
Pyre of Gods
#4 - 2012-01-03 11:32:30 UTC
The Snowman wrote:
Essentially a bookmark is merely a set of coordinates, a string of numbers, text. so why can those coordinates not be sent to anyone via a simple text message?

Why, in this ultra futuristic environment have we not yet invented text messaging? Why should one have to create a physical item and trade it to another?

Even when Eve Online was being developed, why did someone decide that a set of coordinates, which is just a string of text, would need to become a physical item in order to communicate it to another person?


Corp bookmark tab?

And a sudden plunge in the sullen swell. Ten fathoms deep on the road to hell.
J3ssica Alba
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2012-01-03 11:34:30 UTC
Text message was deemed heretical by the Amarrians. Since then anyone who takes an iPhone into space with them is podded instantly.
This is my signature. There are many others like it, but this one is mine.  Without me, my signature is useless. Without my signature, I am useless
The Snowman
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2012-01-03 11:43:08 UTC
Tallianna Avenkarde wrote:
Corp bookmark tab?
good point. we are already able to transmit that data within a corp. so what I wonder exactly what the problem is.
Elzon1
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#7 - 2012-01-03 11:43:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Elzon1
The Snowman wrote:
Essentially a bookmark is merely a set of coordinates, a string of numbers, text. so why can those coordinates not be sent to anyone via a simple text message?

Why, in this ultra futuristic environment have we not yet invented text messaging? Why should one have to create a physical item and trade it to another?

Even when Eve Online was being developed, why did someone decide that a set of coordinates, which is just a string of text, would need to become a physical item in order to communicate it to another person?


I think it used to be the case that you could do such a thing as setting coordinates manually to go where you wanted in a system. I can't remember why they prevented it's use. I guess people simply used it to make safespots. However, after the changes people figured out how to use celestials and other bookmarks to make similar safespots.

So yeah, it used to be the case that you could just type in some coordinate and you warped there and did your business.

Maybe CCP should consider bringing that capability back in a different form so as to create more strategic fleet battles.
The Snowman
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2012-01-03 11:51:36 UTC
Elzon1 wrote:
The Snowman wrote:
Essentially a bookmark is merely a set of coordinates, a string of numbers, text. so why can those coordinates not be sent to anyone via a simple text message?

Why, in this ultra futuristic environment have we not yet invented text messaging? Why should one have to create a physical item and trade it to another?

Even when Eve Online was being developed, why did someone decide that a set of coordinates, which is just a string of text, would need to become a physical item in order to communicate it to another person?


I think it used to be the case that you could do such a thing as setting coordinates manually to go where you wanted in a system. I can't remember why they prevented it's use. I guess people simply used it to make safespots. However, after the changes people figured out how to use celestials and other bookmarks to make similar safespots.

So yeah, it used to be the case that you could just type in some coordinate and you warped there and did your business.

Maybe CCP should consider bringing that capability back in a different form so as to create more strategic fleet battles.


I see where your coming from but I dont buy it. Whats the difference between dragging and dropping a bookmark into your cargo and dragging and dropping to another individual?

Why must it be manifested into an object?
Tiberius Sunstealer
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#9 - 2012-01-03 11:57:09 UTC
The Snowman wrote:
I see where your coming from but I dont buy it. Whats the difference between dragging and dropping a bookmark into your cargo and dragging and dropping to another individual?

Why must it be manifested into an object?

You seem to be asking too many questions. CCP wouldn't be too happy.
Jimnoo
Perkone
Caldari State
#10 - 2012-01-03 11:57:36 UTC
Sorry to be boring and give you the real answer:

The bookmarks cause load on CCPs systems. CCP find ways to limit the amount of BMs people have. One way of doing this is to make the process of transfering BMs between players needlessly difficult.

/insert ad-hoc RP BS/
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#11 - 2012-01-03 12:03:57 UTC
Bookmarks are patented by Khanid Innovations and are therefore heavily DRMed.
The Snowman
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2012-01-03 12:35:55 UTC
Jimnoo wrote:
The bookmarks cause load on CCPs systems.


that doesn't make sense, why would storing a string of text cause any load at all? It might take space.. but in the digital world space is infinite.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#13 - 2012-01-03 12:39:48 UTC
The Snowman wrote:
Jimnoo wrote:
The bookmarks cause load on CCPs systems.
that doesn't make sense, why would storing a string of text cause any load at all? It might take space.. but in the digital world space is infinite.

From what I understood, bookmarks are not just strings of text — they're strings of text that get translated into in-space simulation objects when you enter the relevant system, and the creation and management of all those objects can take a toll when there's too many of them.
The Snowman
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2012-01-03 12:50:08 UTC
Tippia wrote:
The Snowman wrote:
Jimnoo wrote:
The bookmarks cause load on CCPs systems.
that doesn't make sense, why would storing a string of text cause any load at all? It might take space.. but in the digital world space is infinite.

From what I understood, bookmarks are not just strings of text — they're strings of text that get translated into in-space simulation objects when you enter the relevant system, and the creation and management of all those objects can take a toll when there's too many of them.


since there is no limit to the amount of bookmarks you can create, then this reason also makes no sense.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#15 - 2012-01-03 12:57:33 UTC
The Snowman wrote:
since there is no limit to the amount of bookmarks you can create, then this reason also makes no sense.
Why would there be a limit? It's just a reason why they'd prefer people not having a bajillion bookmarks in every system (if I understood their reasoning correctly, which admittedly might not be the case).
Nex apparatu5
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#16 - 2012-01-03 13:16:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Nex apparatu5
The Snowman wrote:

since there is no limit to the amount of bookmarks you can create, then this reason also makes no sense.


There's a limit of 13,000 bookmarks. I and several people I know have run up against this limit.
Jimnoo
Perkone
Caldari State
#17 - 2012-01-03 13:59:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Jimnoo
The Snowman wrote:

since there is no limit to the amount of bookmarks you can create, then this reason also makes no sense.


There is also a limit on how many you would manually collect.

It also seems surprising to me that BMs impose significant 'cost' on CCP, but they have told us they do. Way back in time CCP removed the old 'only warp to 15km' feature because people were using so many warp to zero BMs that it caused a significant strain on their servers.

Imagining how something could be efficiently implemented often isn't the way CCP have implemented it.
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#18 - 2012-01-03 16:40:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Petrus Blackshell
The way systems and grids work is ~magic~ so there probably isn't much more than speculation for us to do on how the backend of bookmarks works, or why they cause performance issues.

All that is clear is that, at some point in the past, it looked like a good decision (or a technically interesting one for a masochistic developer) to have the bookmarks be represented as in-game items instead of special data structures designed for the purpose. From what I understand from the discussion of the corp bookmarks system is that both your personal bookmarks and corp bookmarks are stored in special "containers". These are further complicated by the fact that they are not location-restricted -- you need to be able to access them from any system, and in the case of the corp bookmarks, by multiple people.

So yeah, having an awkward system like that is difficult to manage, and CCP likely never got around to writing the weird code necessary to create actual in-game objects from plain text input.

Ninja Edit: And yeah, not being able to just send coordinates to someone has always bugged me, too. I think that was the first disappointment in the system that I encountered when I started Eve.

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