Crime & Punishment

First off, when someone leaves a corp to dodge a wardec, they are doing it by choice. Nobody is forcing them to do it.

While I agree that the mechanic I proposed feels somewhat contrived, it does match my goals: make dodging wardecs harder and make player corps more meaningful. Do you have a better way to achieve that that is less contrived?


You're right. Level 4 agents in 0.5 and 0.6 systems aren't the problem. Level 4 agents in 1.0 and 0.9 systems are.


My proposed change to the Procurer has less to do with player behavior and more to do with the fact that the Procurer & Skiff has a clear and obvious numerical advantage over the other barges. I'm all for players mining in their Retrievers and Covetors if they like, but if they want the protection of a Procurer, they should not also get some of the benefits of a Retriever.

Also, I mine in losec quite regularly and have yet to suffer a mining loss there. While I do understand that many folks in the area will shoot me on sight, I have learned to deal with that. That's kind of the point of losec. You don't get people into losec by making losec less dangerous, you get them into losec by teaching them how to survive there in face of the danger. I do agree that this is a player mentality issue, not a game mechanic issue, but it has nothing to do with my proposed Procurer/Skiff change.


My business is that I am an active member of the C&P community and a handful of other active members felt that I should run based on my views, experiences, and overall good nature. Said experience includes (recently, and in no particular order) running level 4 missions in hisec, mining in hisec and losec, industry & research, POS operations, exploration, operating a small hisec wardec/merc/PvP corp and (much less recently) living out in nullsec doing nullsec F1-monkey things. My corp often works alone and it is beholden to nobody, but I do maintain contact with other, larger groups, so I am aware on some level of issues beyond those I see directly.


You think that's small? Figuring out a way to do that may well be the most fundamental change to ever happen in EvE....

Hyperdunking is hilariously easy to prevent, and even easier to stop dead in it's tracks. Anyone in local can come save you. Anyone in any chat you have friends in can come save you. And if you start calling for help early, you'll have 15 minutes to 30 minutes for help to arrive, and it won't take much for them to save you. Even your newbro friend in a t1 frigate can save you.

There's no problem with Hyperdunking beyond people utterly failing to protect themselves.

I'm willing to discuss self-defense tactics in regards to Hyperdunking with anyone who asks, but this isn't the place.

You can wrap your ideas in pink paper, they'll still be nerfes. You not seeing that makes it very hard for me to take you seriously. I read all your posts, the main reason I said twice stop assuming things. You haven't given me any facts, that there is a problem, other then your feelings and those you care bear with.

You claim large merc corps have it easy and without any risk. It's clear you have no idea how much time and energy I put in this alliance to keep it running and how much isks I spend every week (8-10B+) to keep it running. Do you think I make more in loot than that ? So stop the bull **** low risk thing, as financially I have a huge risk. We even lose a lot on those wars. Only reason we can run this, is because of out of alliance resources. Risk is not just defined by being shot. If Marmites would be mission running or incursion running, yes, then we would have 0 risk.

If large mercs would be operating without any risk or effort, dont you think we would have dozens of large merc alliances ?

So I dont mind you posting stuff, but do your homework first.

I'll stop assuming that you haven't read past my first post when you stop assuming that I'm just another bear. I'm not. I'm not as aggressive or well-known as you and Marmite, but my corp's aggressive war history is rather long. I bear to pay the bills, but my bills are largely from hisec wars.

Maybe if you talked about something beyond the first point I would have an easier time believing you when you said you've read past it. You and I beating our respective chests at each other accomplishes nothing. If you don't like something I've proposed (beyond the first point, which we've already covered at length), tell me why and what you would do differently. If you don't like my overall goal of making hisec a riskier place to operate (for everyone), please tell me why and what you would like to see instead. That's all I ask. Didn't you say that I should talk to all comers?

I know that this can sound condescending over text, but believe me when I say it's not. I'm not trolling, I'm not an angry bear or a bitter merc, I'm looking to understand what people want. Even you, loveable chap that you are. I have some ideas and some impressions from people and the beginning of a vision, but I don't claim to have all of the answers, so I'm asking for input.


I never meant to imply that running a large merc group was easy or effortless, and if I did so I apologize. I know first hand that running any group of any size takes a lot of effort, especially one as active as Marmite, which is precisely why I run a very small corp.

Your financial risk I can somewhat understand. I don't imagine that you make much, if any, actual profit from war loot (I know I typically don't), and I imagine that surrender/protection income is unreliable (it's never worked for me), but as a merc corp aren't your clients supposed to cover your costs to wardec their desired targets? If they're not then either you're not charging enough for your services or your operating costs are too high. This isn't EvE mechanics, it's basic economics.

As for combat risk...I'm going to largely withhold comment for now. Your killboards are exceedingly green so you obviously don't lose ships that often, but I also know that killboards don't tell the whole story so I don't want to make any assumption. Let's just say that there is a long and distinguished list of player corps who wouldn't want to wardec Marmite and that provides you with some degree of risk alleviation even if you're not directly aware of it.


Going back to the economics for a moment, imagine a hisec where more players are in player corps, and thus vulnerable to wardecs. Imagine also that they're more spread out so they're less likely to get assistance in a timely manner, less likely to drop corp or otherwise dodge the wardec because corps are worth keeping, and potentially richer from reaping the new benefits of being in a player corp. Wouldn't that provide you with a more target-rich environment? Yes, you'd have to travel more so you'd lose the benefit of a home field advantage, but I can't ever imagine having more potential targets being a bad thing from a merc's point of view. Am I wrong here?

(And, yes, I do realize that what I just described borders on fantasy. I am a firm believer in stretch goals.)

Hello Bronson,

I am glad that you are standing up for what you believe in. As much as high-sec needs a change for the better you are definitely talking to the wrong crowd. Do you understand that you are talking to the Wolves? When have the wolves ever outnumbered the sheep? Player, if you want to become a CSM you need to leave the woods and visit the pasture with the other grazing creatures. Why do I say this? Well its quite simple, you are in one of the smallest corporations in Eve with maybe 3 alts at best to vote for yourself. Lets say you get another 10 votes from the people that clicked your CSM thread(we get quite a few each year), and another 20 because people like your friendly name.

You do know that most CSM members get 500+ votes to hold office? Hell I bet Tora got way more than 500 but still it wasn't enough to compete with the masses. You need to either be in a major null-sec alliance, have a popular YouTube channel, be agreed upon by the Wormhole powers that be, or be loved amongst the RvB community.

What do all of those examples have in common? They are community based. Every Null-Sec CSM talked about Null-Sec changes. Every Wormhole CSM talked about wormholes. You should get the idea from here. If you are to really makes waves in an election you'll need to be popular amongst all of high-sec. What makes up the majority of the high-sec player base? Incursion runners(+2000 people), mission runners(+2000 people), miners (+2000 people), traders(+2000 people), industrialists(+2000 people).

Which community are you presenting to? Mercenaries and gankers(-2000 people). Honestly if you are building a campaign that is this laughably outnumbered and think it's worth the time, I don't know if I could ever vote for you. Like seriously, your math sucks. I'm not saying I don't like your ideas but is having sex without a condom a good idea too?

Mercenaries and Gankers are a dying breed that is heavily outnumbered by the protected sheep of high-sec. I believe the only thing we can do to preserve our species is to honestly not talk about it. CCP knows that wars help make a sandbox but they also know that the PVE community(+10,000 people) enjoys Eve in its current state. The last time CCP tried to nerf incursions they redacted their change within a week. The less we talk about wars, the longer we get to keep our way of life.

For your CSM platform, if you really want to be a CSM, you should take my advice and socialize with the sheep. Join the incursion communities and make yourself well known, join the hauler channels, join RvB and help out their community, learn how to edit videos and get subscribers on youtube, AND most importantly train your Reddit game because its the new forums of Eve. Your only path to be a seating member of the CSM is to have the carebears KNOW you and LIKE you and to drop the merc/ganker talk. Anyways I hope you enjoyed my advice and as always you do you.

My 2 cents,
Zeus

Thank you for the input.

If my primary goal was simply to win a seat on the CSM, everything you're saying would be a fabulous idea.

The problem is that I'm not simply trying to win a seat on the CSM, I'm trying to win a seat representing the community I come from on the CSM. Sure, I plan to broaden my message beyond C&P, but at the end of the day it will be to spread the word and maybe pick up some support. I have no plans on changing my platform to the point that it no longer represents my core community. That's not me.

Incidentally, I do have a YouTube channel where I post any Thunderdome matches that I record. It's small, but growing, and I imagine it's mostly subscribed to by folks here in C&P.

I didn't ask because I want to see it changed. I was just curious on your stance. I obviously approve of it :)

I don't want to change the Procurer's tank. I think it's tank is just fine and a necessary counterpoint to the weak tank of the Retriever and Covetor. I want to reduce it's ore hold.

Also, for losec mining the Venture and Prospect are perfectly viable options. On a personal note, Prospect gangs are my preferred method of losec mining. Fast, stealthy, and can easily speed tank most belt/anom 'rats. A great way to get in and out quickly, even in the face of gate camps.

If enough benefits for remaining loyal to a corp were added then corps would likely recruit pvp oriented players or hire mercs on a regular basis. It's quite possible this would diminish the need for blanket decs and remove the desire for a hard cap.I agree with there being no need for it. I also agree with the other changes.

Oh and on highsec capitals.

I support combat capitals (dread/carrier) being able to enter and leave highsec through gates, but definitely want to keep the cynojammers in place and I think I support a ban on jumping combat capitals out of highsec. (Keep supers out. Death to all supers.)

More than anything else this is because Marauders are insanely OP in highsec wars without dreads to counter them, whereas dreadnoughts and carriers are vulnerable unless used in extreme numbers.

Highsec doesn't offer many objectives strategically significant enough to make it sensible to slowboat in a dreadnought or carrier and seriously commit it to combat without the option of an exit cyno. But players will find some, and just imagine the excitement if you are a new player flying around and you see a Forsaken Asylum capital fleet engaging a Marmite subcap fleet with two support carriers, all on a gate in Niarja.