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Decline in numbers... starting to turn into RAPID!!!

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Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#141 - 2015-08-25 21:58:13 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Uh-huh…
Beautiful graphic! Though sad

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
Markus Reese
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#142 - 2015-08-25 22:07:50 UTC
There is the pve/pvp side always in these talks. But drifters got me thinking. Ccp is making pve more like pvp a bit at a time.. Think about it. If the good money uses fits and ships similar to pvp... Then the transition becomes more seamless. Pvp in pve not so bad as we get usex to it. Very tough to accomplish on defence side. Guess that is an advantage of npcs with the new AI. Run stuff with pvp risk and have npc ai to help can balance risk/reward.

To quote Lfod Shi

The ratting itself is PvE. Getting away with it is PvP.
Salvos Rhoska
#143 - 2015-08-25 22:09:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Uh-huh…
Beautiful graphic! Though sad

I love how Monday tries so goddam hard.

I can relate to that...

But also, new found contempt for the weekend gamers.

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#144 - 2015-08-25 22:11:38 UTC
'Eve is dying' threads are so numerous, its hard to think of a topic that has enough links I can use for it. After careful consideration, and input from my fellow... whatever were calling ourselves today, I have come up with the following decree:

From this day henceforth, the response to 'Eve is dying' threads shall be... Harry Potter Fan Fiction!!!!


Please enjoy this first selection of many.

Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#145 - 2015-08-25 22:16:35 UTC
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
'Eve is dying' threads are so numerous, its hard to think of a topic that has enough links I can use for it. After careful consideration, and input from my fellow... whatever were calling ourselves today, I have come up with the following decree:

From this day henceforth, the response to 'Eve is dying' threads shall be... Harry Potter Fan Fiction!!!!


Please enjoy this first selection of many.
Needs more Mr Muffin and other pastry related escapades.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Salvos Rhoska
#146 - 2015-08-25 22:27:55 UTC
EVE aint dead, but the numbers look bad.

We will manage, but its shareholders in CCP corp that are most critical of this.

Alteast 1bil PLEX should spur both sub and PLEX purchase, to mediate the fiscal bottomline.

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Markus Reese
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#147 - 2015-08-25 22:56:17 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
EVE aint dead, but the numbers look bad.

We will manage, but its shareholders in CCP corp that are most critical of this.

Alteast 1bil PLEX should spur both sub and PLEX purchase, to mediate the fiscal bottomline.


You are not lying depending on how the plex market is going. I am even tempted to do a plex to help fund engaging into this drifter stuff.

To quote Lfod Shi

The ratting itself is PvE. Getting away with it is PvP.
Eli Apol
Definitely a nullsec alt
#148 - 2015-08-25 23:05:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Eli Apol
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
'Eve is dying' threads are so numerous, its hard to think of a topic that has enough links I can use for it. After careful consideration, and input from my fellow... whatever were calling ourselves today, I have come up with the following decree:

From this day henceforth, the response to 'Eve is dying' threads shall be... Harry Potter Fan Fiction!!!!


Please enjoy this first selection of many.

Was hoping for this instead

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rJAtPNYQ30 semi-NSFW

e: better link

but what would I know, I'm just a salvager
helana Tsero
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#149 - 2015-08-25 23:10:52 UTC
3 Biggest problems I see. And some (may work / may not work) solutions

1. Eve takes to much time commitment.

Possible solution - Reduce the number of systems. Greater player density in less systems = less time to find pew / more conflict over scarce resources / For PVE players trade hubs/mission systems are closer etc etc.

2. Eve when you first look at it...is spreadsheets in space and icons shooting icons. And that looks boring for new players.

Possible solution - Nuke the dam UI. Make a significant amount of it toggle on/off and add a picture in picture view of what a player is shooting at so they atleast get to see something other than a red icon exploding. Give us a option to turn the red icons off. Many people play using just the overview anyway.

3. Unless your dedicated to trawling 3rd party news sites its impossible to find out about whats happening ingame with player corps / sov wars etc.

Possible solution - Have a ingame tv news show with the latest happenings in EvE. Use the Captains Quarters you spent so much of our subs developing as a venue for players to watch the show. Give tips on how new players can get involved without getting ganked /scammed. Give a weekly SOV / WH / Low update. Talk about the latest PVE stuff and ship fittings. CCP guard would be great for this. But keep it all ingame.. stop forcing casual players to go to 3rd party sites. Casual players don t have time to go searching twitch / youtube / twitter and the thousand other places you place dribs and drabs of news / info.

"...ppl need to get out of caves and they will see something new.... thats where eve is placed... not in cave."  | zoonr-Korsairs |

Meanwhile Citadel release issues: "tried to bug report this and the bug report is bugged as well" | Rafeau |
Vic Jefferson
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#150 - 2015-08-25 23:11:01 UTC
Market McSelling Alt wrote:
You do know that Incursions in Null Sec pay out far more and to a larger fleet number than the same Incursions in High Sec right?


Ugh, here we go again.

A)They aren't safe. Having actual risk associated with running and moving to them factors into the expected outcome.

B)They are neither accessible nor available. Moving around HS is extremely safe except for a few systems, and there will always be at least one incursion you can participate in, and the distances are generally smaller. Moving around in null is neither safe nor fun, and the distances are much longer, and the incursion may be in enemy space or space on the other side of the map, either of which basically means you don't have free run of it like you do with all HS ones.

C)When they are run, they are over in 12 hours. No farming for a week before finishing it; it needs to be cleared due to the cyno-jamming effect.

Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X.....XI.....XII?
Market McSelling Alt
Doomheim
#151 - 2015-08-25 23:16:37 UTC
Vic Jefferson wrote:
Market McSelling Alt wrote:
You do know that Incursions in Null Sec pay out far more and to a larger fleet number than the same Incursions in High Sec right?


Ugh, here we go again.

A)They aren't safe. Having actual risk associated with running and moving to them factors into the expected outcome.

B)They are neither accessible nor available. Moving around HS is extremely safe except for a few systems, and there will always be at least one incursion you can participate in, and the distances are generally smaller. Moving around in null is neither safe nor fun, and the distances are much longer, and the incursion may be in enemy space or space on the other side of the map, either of which basically means you don't have free run of it like you do with all HS ones.

C)When they are run, they are over in 12 hours. No farming for a week before finishing it; it needs to be cleared due to the cyno-jamming effect.



A) Never claimed they were safe. In fact the point that they are not safe was a pivotal part of my argument. Over your head.

B) Being in an alliance that has over 50% of null sec blue I had to chuckle a minute. But yes, they are not readily accessible, and neither is all of the high sec constellations Incursions are in. It happens, it sucks, but sometimes you just can't get to where the incursions are. Who's problem is that?

C) Grow a freaking pair... you have to clear them because they jam your precious cynos... Typical null sec statement. "I want my cake but I don't want to have to bake it"

Luckily for you, a mostly afk carrier or Ishtar team can make just as much as Incursion runners in High sec, you never have to move systems, and you never have to travel. You can also do it with 1/4th the investment.

But don't let facts stand in your way.

CCP Quant: Of all those who logon in Eve, 1.5% do Incursions, 13.8% PVP and 19.2% run Missions while 22.4% mine.

40.7% Join a fleet. The idea that Eve is a PVP game is false, the social fabric is in Missions and Mining.
Vic Jefferson
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#152 - 2015-08-25 23:40:48 UTC
Market McSelling Alt wrote:

B) Being in an alliance that has over 50% of null sec blue I had to chuckle a minute. But yes, they are not readily accessible, and neither is all of the high sec constellations Incursions are in. It happens, it sucks, but sometimes you just can't get to where the incursions are. Who's problem is that?

C) Grow a freaking pair... you have to clear them because they jam your precious cynos... Typical null sec statement. "I want my cake but I don't want to have to bake it"

Luckily for you, a mostly afk carrier or Ishtar team can make just as much as Incursion runners in High sec, you never have to move systems, and you never have to travel. You can also do it with 1/4th the investment.

But don't let facts stand in your way.


B)How many HS constellations are inaccessible? A few in solitude and some token ones here and there? It is a statistical anomaly when there isn't at least one that is available and accessible without any sort of exertion.

C)Ishtars make, tops, 60/hr under optimal conditions. HS incursions make 100/hr, or more. Ishtars are creating content for hunters and defenders, incursions remove potential player content from the game. I'm sorry, the best PvE should be in WH, which I guess it is, but the second best should not be in HS.

Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X.....XI.....XII?
helana Tsero
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#153 - 2015-08-25 23:50:29 UTC  |  Edited by: helana Tsero
You guys who are arguing back and forth on ISK... incursions vs blue loot vs null ratting / risk vs reward / high vs low vs null vs wh are missing the point.

Bottom line.

People play the game cause its fun... whatever people are finding fun.. CCP needs to do more of.

What ever people are finding less fun... CCP needs to improve that aspect of the game or cut it.

and they need to find a way to make the NPE experience better and more contemporary... cause the new player in 2007-2009 is very different to the new player in 2015.

"...ppl need to get out of caves and they will see something new.... thats where eve is placed... not in cave."  | zoonr-Korsairs |

Meanwhile Citadel release issues: "tried to bug report this and the bug report is bugged as well" | Rafeau |
Seven Koskanaiken
Shadow Legions.
SONS of BANE
#154 - 2015-08-25 23:56:51 UTC
It's a computer game.

If it dies just find another to play.
Market McSelling Alt
Doomheim
#155 - 2015-08-26 00:01:27 UTC
Vic Jefferson wrote:
Market McSelling Alt wrote:

B) Being in an alliance that has over 50% of null sec blue I had to chuckle a minute. But yes, they are not readily accessible, and neither is all of the high sec constellations Incursions are in. It happens, it sucks, but sometimes you just can't get to where the incursions are. Who's problem is that?

C) Grow a freaking pair... you have to clear them because they jam your precious cynos... Typical null sec statement. "I want my cake but I don't want to have to bake it"

Luckily for you, a mostly afk carrier or Ishtar team can make just as much as Incursion runners in High sec, you never have to move systems, and you never have to travel. You can also do it with 1/4th the investment.

But don't let facts stand in your way.


B)How many HS constellations are inaccessible? A few in solitude and some token ones here and there? It is a statistical anomaly when there isn't at least one that is available and accessible without any sort of exertion.

C)Ishtars make, tops, 60/hr under optimal conditions. HS incursions make 100/hr, or more. Ishtars are creating content for hunters and defenders, incursions remove potential player content from the game. I'm sorry, the best PvE should be in WH, which I guess it is, but the second best should not be in HS.



B) Look it up. Also Incursions effect the systems in High Sec too, which effects the ability to do lots of things from mining to missions to PVP.

C) 60m/hr Ishtars... if you are almost completely afk sure. You and I both know that number was conservative. 100m/hr Incursions, yes if you join TVP and you get in without waiting and you lose no contests.

Biggest reason Incursions are fine is that only a finite amount of players can make that isk at any one time AND it takes co-operation to make it, you can't do it alone (anymore).

Nevertheless, Helana is 100% correct. Incursions, isk per hour and other nonsensical bickering is not the point of this thread. The Fun per Hour is down. People are leaving. If enough people leave it effects the game for the rest of us.

The deniers out there need to knock it off. You can't care less numbers are dropping? Fine, but those that want this game to not suck so bad when the numbers hit critical levels would rather find a solution and be wrong, then try and ignore it and find out you are wrong.

CCP Quant: Of all those who logon in Eve, 1.5% do Incursions, 13.8% PVP and 19.2% run Missions while 22.4% mine.

40.7% Join a fleet. The idea that Eve is a PVP game is false, the social fabric is in Missions and Mining.
xxxTRUSTxxx
Galactic Rangers
#156 - 2015-08-26 00:14:06 UTC
another EVE is dieing thread, it's a shame action isn't taken against these kind of nonsense threads by people that have nothing better to do than watch how many people are online, rather than get out and play the game and let CCP do their job.

is not starting a thraed about a subject that's already live not allowed, please lock this shite. sick of these doom and gloom naysayers.

don't you have something good to say about EVE?

why not share a story about something you got upto lately? or have you done feck all? Roll
Webvan
All Kill No Skill
#157 - 2015-08-26 00:20:12 UTC
helana Tsero wrote:
and they need to find a way to make the NPE experience better and more contemporary... cause the new player in 2007-2009 is very different to the new player in 2015.

And the game population grew faster when it was that way. They made it easier and it didn't help a whole lot, actually leveled out growth. Why play EVE as an easy game when there are so many other easy games to choose from already? If these new players are first introduced to easy going gameplay, then that's the type of player CCP is going to attract while turning away the other, and they will either quit or cry for changes once things get into the normal gameplay of EVE. Those are people that should just never get past the trial and find another game.

I'm in it for the money

Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12
Khergit Deserters
Crom's Angels
#158 - 2015-08-26 00:29:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Khergit Deserters
Wouldn't reply to another EVE Is Dying thread, except this time curve didn't follow it's usual seasonal patterns. It really has just been going down, and kept going down. Check out Chribba's EVE Offline server data (second chart from the top)....

The EVE player base expects each denizen to do his or her part. When suckiness in the game is spotted, it must be reported and eliminated. All persons must do their part to create an interesting experience, pleasant or unpleasant, for all others. ::looks upward, left and right:: We are experts at creating interesting experiences. That is our strength, and that is what a has made this EVE nation great. ::pause, reflective looking around:::

Our younger denizens want to share in that experience. They want to learn how to tackle interesting unpleasant experiences, and create some of their own. Someday. They know the trail is long, and the path is hard. So I say to you-- [i]Do not prey on newbros! Do not gang up on them, and gloat over losses they cannot understand as yet! Or if you do, let them speak, and explain your actions, and give them a pile of ISK that is small to you, but huge for a newbro. And welcome them into the siblinghood of EVE.

[Load of shite, but... keep taking care of the newbros, eh? The guys are just like us (addicted) and want to love this game. They're not going to love it if they get asploded in high sec, when they're so new they're just tooling around exploring missions, mining, exploration, WHs, all the other things to do. People quit MMOs when they get popped while still exploring the rules].
Gimme Sake
State War Academy
Caldari State
#159 - 2015-08-26 00:36:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Gimme Sake
Here be some rhetorical questions.

Do people who start this sort of threads have CCP shares? Their concern is touching to say the list. Do they also also wail and start topics each time Dow Jones is in free fall? Does CCP practice unknown marketing schemes which include hiring of professional mourners to troll the forums? Are aliens real... oh wait, this is off topic.

By the way, what is the topic please?

"Never not blob!" ~ Plato
helana Tsero
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#160 - 2015-08-26 00:36:53 UTC
Webvan wrote:
helana Tsero wrote:
and they need to find a way to make the NPE experience better and more contemporary... cause the new player in 2007-2009 is very different to the new player in 2015.

And the game population grew faster when it was that way. They made it easier and it didn't help a whole lot, actually leveled out growth. Why play EVE as an easy game when there are so many other easy games to choose from already? If these new players are first introduced to easy going gameplay, then that's the type of player CCP is going to attract while turning away the other, and they will either quit or cry for changes once things get into the normal gameplay of EVE. Those are people that should just never get past the trial and find another game.


Didnt say easier.. I said better.

Dumbing down and spoon feeding is not better. Making the NPE more contemporary and fitting in with what 2015 gamers expect is how I would define better. Basicly I think spreadsheets in space is one of the key problems with NPE. Also first few months of eve is freakin boring til you get into the meta game or somehow stumble upon a decent player corp

"...ppl need to get out of caves and they will see something new.... thats where eve is placed... not in cave."  | zoonr-Korsairs |

Meanwhile Citadel release issues: "tried to bug report this and the bug report is bugged as well" | Rafeau |