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Wardec feedback from a new player

Author
Tilah Chengdu
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2015-08-25 15:39:04 UTC
I've been playing Eve for a little over 3 months. Have really enjoyed it. So much to learn and so much to do. With that said I've found one aspect of the game that may drive me away from playing it all together.

Wardecs can make the game unplayable for new characters.

My corp is being wardeced constantly by an endless number of much larger corps. They are flying Tech 3 ships and I’m solo in a mining barge. Being a new player I thought I could hide in a remote system. Seems logical given how vast the universe is but nope. They can have an NPC locator agent tell them exactly where I am for very little cost. So as a new player I can’t really do anything without being killed or harassed by an endless stream of wardec corps. No fun, too unbalance. There is really nothing I can do so I just log out and find something else to play.

Some ideas that would fix this issue but not corrupt the overall PvP experience:

Locator agents can’t locate anyone in high sec. I get the idea that you can never be completely safe from PvP. This doesn’t change that but allow people to try to hide or at least make it difficult. If you get found by player agents, fine. But allowing experienced players to pinpoint inexperienced players with NPCs is just so unbalanced. At the very least make it impossible to locate new players with less than 20M SP (about 1 year).

Declaring war needs to cost a lot more. 3B ISK minimum. The current cost does nothing to slow down indiscriminate waring. You see lots of corps that do 10-20 per week every week all the time. They are in essence just lighting up hisec with easy targets and preying on new players who can’t fight back. I think it’s cowardly but the game mechanics allow/encourage it.

Let me sum this up with an analogy:
You have minnows (new players) trying to swim around and grow to be big fish. The way things are currently setup it’s too easy for the larger fish to feed too aggressively on the young fish. If not corrected the overall population will continue to decline.

Arya Regnar
Darwins Right Hand
#2 - 2015-08-25 16:03:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Arya Regnar
Yeah... No...
3b minimum for a week of wardecs where you can on average look at people dropping corps instantly and maybe getting a few kills which result in less than 300m total net worth for you from drops is a total nonsense.

The mechanics allow anyone to freely get away from any kind of wardec instantly with very little downsides.
As for you t3 arguments, you want to mine in a player corporation in highsec you have to deal with the second biggest but avoidable threat, the first being suicide ganking.

Locator agents offer the only way to wardec guys to not be a 24/7 uedama niarja jita amarr domixie campers.
Locator agents are fine, maybe highsec is broken. In highsec you are too easy to follow, considered escaping to wormholes?

You want to play eve by your own rules in the dumbest way possible and then complain about how it's unenjoyable because of people that want to push you towards the very core mechanics of game.

Eve is a PVP game. Deal with it.
Harden the f up, or get blown to bits.
The sooner you stop being a PVP avoiding whinebear the more fun you can look forward to having in this game.

--Edit--
Checked your corporations zkill and found out that the first 3 pages of it are full red apart from structure whoring, a non solo rookie ship kill and 8 man gank on a t1 frigate in lowsec.

No wonder every single guy wardecced you since you are such a good target.
Maybe not join such a bad corporation next time.

EvE-Mail me if you need anything.

Tilah Chengdu
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2015-08-25 16:33:59 UTC
Arya Regnar wrote:
Yeah... No...
3b minimum for a week of wardecs where you can on average look at people dropping corps instantly and maybe getting a few kills which result in less than 300m total net worth for you from drops is a total nonsense.

The mechanics allow anyone to freely get away from any kind of wardec instantly with very little downsides.
As for you t3 arguments, you want to mine in a player corporation in highsec you have to deal with the second biggest but avoidable threat, the first being suicide ganking.

Locator agents offer the only way to wardec guys to not be a 24/7 uedama niarja jita amarr domixie campers.
Locator agents are fine, maybe highsec is broken. In highsec you are too easy to follow, considered escaping to wormholes?

You want to play eve by your own rules in the dumbest way possible and then complain about how it's unenjoyable because of people that want to push you towards the very core mechanics of game.

Eve is a PVP game. Deal with it.
Harden the f up, or get blown to bits.
The sooner you stop being a PVP avoiding whinebear the more fun you can look forward to having in this game.


Your view is very narrow and one dimensional. Your arguments are juvenile and don’t consider the bigger picture of healthy game population growth. Sounds like you are afraid of having to PvP against targets that can fight back and prefer the status quo you have become accustomed to.
Eli Apol
Definitely a nullsec alt
#4 - 2015-08-25 17:02:36 UTC
Get out of highsec or join an NPC corp and find some community chat channels to substitute for the corp experience.

Highsec industrial corps are suicide as you're currently discovering.

but what would I know, I'm just a salvager

FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#5 - 2015-08-25 17:03:06 UTC
Welcome to Eve!*

* - User experiences may vary.

BLUF - whether you like it or not, non-consensual PVP is a huge part of Eve.

As my first corporation discovered just over 8 years ago, if you want to survive in New Eden, you have to fight for survival. Like you, we were just minding our business in high security space - mining, running missions, a little bit of manufacturing here and there. We were happy. Then the big, bad wolf showed up and declared war on us. My corporation was split. Some wanted to dock up and not play for a week, some wanted to fight, and others just wanted the bad man to stop. Eventually, we got into some fights with them, lost a few ships, and generally got a rude "welcome to New Eden." We also learned a lot about game mechanics - whether it be neutral scouts, neutral off-grid boosters, neutral logistics support, aggression mechanics - and the all important meta game.

Of the 12 original members of my corporation, 2 quit Eve for good after the war declaration, 4 quit the corporation for the rest of the war, 6 of us fought. Of the remaining 10 players, four of us quit the corporation after the war and moved into a new player friendly corporation in 0.0. We did not want to stick around in high security space anymore. Of the remaining six players, they stayed in high security space, played Eve for another six months, then quit because "it was boring and there were no challenges." Never mind that they ignored 90% of what Eve has to offer...

If you do not like being a target for the sorts of people who live in high security space and declare war on "poor people who just want to mine or run missions in peace," then I suggest learning more about all the various options Eve has to offer. First and foremost, get out of high security space! Head off to 0.0 and actually make decent ISK/hour when you mine. There are numerous corporations which welcome new players with open arms.

Start learning how to actually play Eve. No, I don't mean how to mine more efficiently or make more ISK/hour running missions. I mean actually learning how to play. Learn how to survive in the dark, harsh world of New Eden, because if you don't learn now, Eve just won't be a very fun game for you. That much I can promise.

Finally, cue the obligatory developer quote: "EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world." - CCP Wrangler

"Be bold, pilot."

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
#6 - 2015-08-25 17:13:56 UTC
It looks like you have only lost one ship in three months of playing. You're doing better than most.

I would also be very suspicious to be in a HS industry/mining corp that has in its profile that it is CODE compliant.

My gut instinct when I see that screams that the leaders of your corp are alts of players in wardeccing corps who just want easy targets. I'm a paranoid twitchy person though, so I could be wrong.
Tilah Chengdu
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2015-08-25 17:27:46 UTC
I get all the tough love, EvE is always PvP, etc. I’m looking forward to it.

I’m barely viable to fly around hisec. I have around 5M SP. I don’t see how going to WH or Null is safer in my tech 1.5 ships…

What I’m observing is as the player population declines more activity is concentrated in Hisec looking for fresh meat. Being some of the new fresh meat I’m reporting that the New Player Experience degrades to unplayable when the wardec corps spam 10,000 a day because it’s cheap and easy.

There are what 7,500 systems in EvE? About 1,000 are hisec? I don’t see why making minor modifications to the NPE harms the overall game.
Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
#8 - 2015-08-25 17:39:27 UTC
Tilah Chengdu wrote:
I get all the tough love, EvE is always PvP, etc. I’m looking forward to it.

I’m barely viable to fly around hisec. I have around 5M SP. I don’t see how going to WH or Null is safer in my tech 1.5 ships…

What I’m observing is as the player population declines more activity is concentrated in Hisec looking for fresh meat. Being some of the new fresh meat I’m reporting that the New Player Experience degrades to unplayable when the wardec corps spam 10,000 a day because it’s cheap and easy.

There are what 7,500 systems in EvE? About 1,000 are hisec? I don’t see why making minor modifications to the NPE harms the overall game.


null is by far the safest place to mine and do industry ATM. I was in a null corp when my first character only had 3 million SP doing ice/rock mining.

The advantage? You have chat channels open with hundreds of people in your same alliance screaming if anyone not friendly comes anywhere close to you. You can simply dock up/cloak up/reship to PvP/whatever before the bad guy gets in your system.

LS can be safe simply because there are a lot of areas with literally no one in them. If you are the only person in the system, you are obviously safe. If someone else shows up in local, just run. Make a second character/account to scout the route ahead of time before jumping through a gate.

Use the mechanics available before asking for the game to change.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#9 - 2015-08-25 18:25:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Ralph King-Griffin
in your own words
Your view is very narrow and one dimensional.

war decs are trivial to avoid,and actually fairly easy to survive<----book mark this and share it with your corpmates.
if your corp cant defend you or facilitate you doing so for yourself then they should stop doing whatever the hell it is they are doing to garner such attention pronto.
because believe me you haven't seen anything yet, an actual competent wardec group would quite frankly maul your entire corp and most of them read the forums.
Vic Jefferson
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#10 - 2015-08-25 18:31:20 UTC
Sonya Corvinus wrote:
Tilah Chengdu wrote:
I get all the tough love, EvE is always PvP, etc. I’m looking forward to it.

I’m barely viable to fly around hisec. I have around 5M SP. I don’t see how going to WH or Null is safer in my tech 1.5 ships…

What I’m observing is as the player population declines more activity is concentrated in Hisec looking for fresh meat. Being some of the new fresh meat I’m reporting that the New Player Experience degrades to unplayable when the wardec corps spam 10,000 a day because it’s cheap and easy.

There are what 7,500 systems in EvE? About 1,000 are hisec? I don’t see why making minor modifications to the NPE harms the overall game.


null is by far the safest place to mine and do industry ATM. I was in a null corp when my first character only had 3 million SP doing ice/rock mining.

The advantage? You have chat channels open with hundreds of people in your same alliance screaming if anyone not friendly comes anywhere close to you. You can simply dock up/cloak up/reship to PvP/whatever before the bad guy gets in your system.

LS can be safe simply because there are a lot of areas with literally no one in them. If you are the only person in the system, you are obviously safe. If someone else shows up in local, just run. Make a second character/account to scout the route ahead of time before jumping through a gate.

Use the mechanics available before asking for the game to change.


Pretty much this. Wardeccers are the basically the most cowardly players in the game. You win over them by not giving them wardec targets - they won't ever venture into low or null where they could unintentionally lose a ship.

It's nothing personal, but newplayer corps with new players are the CEO are almost invariably the blind leading the blind, even if they are very well intentioned.

Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X.....XI.....XII?

Tilah Chengdu
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#11 - 2015-08-25 18:47:35 UTC
So to summarize the responses to so far:
Stop being a baby.
We disagree. Don’t change the game. Hisec wardec spamming and NPC locator agents are perfect as is.
I suffered through it; so should you.
Move to Null.

The only one that is remotely constructive is the move to Null. Here is my problem with it. The suggestion that I should move to Null implies you agree Hisec is not viable and it should be. Hisec is where you are dumped off after the NPE tutorial. I’ve built up resources and personal relationships in Hisec. I can move/liquidate resources with a fair amount of effort but I don’t want to leave the group of people that have become friends with. Hisec should be safer than Null. The fact it isn’t is additional evidence that the core mechanics need some adjustments.

I like this game a lot. I want to continue playing it. Its been out a long time. In order to keep it healthy and growing changes need to be made and I’m adamant that the issue of wardec spamming in hisec with no way to hide is a core reason a new player like myself would decide to quit playing.

http://www.mmogames.com/gamenews/eve-onlines-player-population-lowest-since-2008/

I’m honestly surprised how much anti feedback I’m getting for suggesting NPE modifications that might increase the overall player population.
Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
#12 - 2015-08-25 18:50:05 UTC
Vic Jefferson wrote:

Pretty much this. Wardeccers are the basically the most cowardly players in the game. You win over them by not giving them wardec targets - they won't ever venture into low or null where they could unintentionally lose a ship.

It's nothing personal, but newplayer corps with new players are the CEO are almost invariably the blind leading the blind, even if they are very well intentioned.


One thing to add, the way you win wardecs as the PvE-er is to have everyone in your corp AFK cloak in HS systems when asleep/at work/etc. Nothing is worse than locator agent-ing, flying 15 jumps and then not being able to find the guy for hours.
Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
#13 - 2015-08-25 18:55:10 UTC
Tilah Chengdu wrote:
So to summarize the responses to so far:
Stop being a baby.
We disagree. Don’t change the game. Hisec wardec spamming and NPC locator agents are perfect as is.
I suffered through it; so should you.
Move to Null.

The only one that is remotely constructive is the move to Null. Here is my problem with it. The suggestion that I should move to Null implies you agree Hisec is not viable and it should be. Hisec is where you are dumped off after the NPE tutorial. I’ve built up resources and personal relationships in Hisec. I can move/liquidate resources with a fair amount of effort but I don’t want to leave the group of people that have become friends with. Hisec should be safer than Null. The fact it isn’t is additional evidence that the core mechanics need some adjustments.

I like this game a lot. I want to continue playing it. Its been out a long time. In order to keep it healthy and growing changes need to be made and I’m adamant that the issue of wardec spamming in hisec with no way to hide is a core reason a new player like myself would decide to quit playing.

http://www.mmogames.com/gamenews/eve-onlines-player-population-lowest-since-2008/

I’m honestly surprised how much anti feedback I’m getting for suggesting NPE modifications that might increase the overall player population.


HS is viable.

Step 1: set current wardec corps to terrible standing.
Step 2: stay pre-aligned to a safe spot (NOT a station/gate/planet)
Step 3: the second anyone red shows up in local, warp to said safe spot and bounce between safes/planets until they get bored and leave
Step 4: move systems. They have someone logged off or cloaked in the belt where you used to be

I personally always safe-logoff in safe spots in a ship that can cloak instead of in stations, in case someone is camping stations the next day, but that's just my own personal maybe over the top paranoia
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#14 - 2015-08-25 18:59:36 UTC
ok once more and then you get fed to the lions

read this http://evedarklord.blogspot.ca/2015/01/surviving-wardecs.html

be pro active in defending yourselves or simply stop being targets, simples
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#15 - 2015-08-25 19:26:14 UTC
OP... if you think Wardecs in high-sec are bad, wait until you venture out into Low-sec, null-sec, or wormhole space.

Anyone you find in those systems is automatically out to get you (and each other).
(NOTE; the reason people say those areas of the game are "safer" is because there is no pretense of "safety." Everything is automatically considered hostile until proven otherwise... which ironically enogh makes things FAR more predicatble than high-sec)


As for your "minnows" comment; that will never change no matter how "built up" or prepared you are. There is always a "bigger fish" and more often than not you will be at a disadvantage.
But THAT IS THE POINT OF THE GAME.

EVE is a "rat race."
One moment you are on top and the next you are face down in the mud. How old your character is is kinda irrelevant in the wider context of the game. Experience is what REALLY counts and will help you survive. And yet here you are asking for the game to insulate you from this experience which is core to the game.

Other tings to consider;
- try fighting back
- don't fight back fairly
- there is more to dissuading an attacker than blowingtheir ship up. You can cripple it (hint; ewar).
- Insurance is your friend.
- even if the wardec goes away now, you will still experience some "terrible aspect" of the game that screw you over and not even kiss you on the cheek when it leaves your smoldering mess behind. Learn now while it is still cheap to do so.
- the game gets HARDER from this point forward
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2015-08-25 19:55:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Omnathious Deninard
The worst advice I was ever given about wardecs was to avoid conflict and evade as much as possible.

OP, grab some corp mates who are willing to die, get in some T1 cruisers fit them as best as you can, make sure to have webs and scrambler/disruptors fit as you can.
Get out there and lose, or win either way when the war is over you will be in a better position for the ability to continue playing long term vs those who stay docked up and flee.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.

Tiddle Jr
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#17 - 2015-08-25 22:27:12 UTC
Solo miner with 5 min SP trying to change the fundamentals. Only to protect you we have to change WD mechanics? I don't want to pay 3.0b isk only to be able to blow your 30m mining barge.

I would be more ok to see your proposal about Cloaky Mining Ship which D-unscsnnable, has huge tank, cargohold and able to use ewar to minigate hazards or and ofc got natural bonus to drone damage so could easily smash all the threats off the grid.

Go to NPC corp and enjoy wardecless life.

"The message is that there are known knowns. There are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say there are things that we now know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know" - CCP

Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
#18 - 2015-08-25 23:02:08 UTC
Tiddle Jr wrote:
Solo miner with 5 min SP trying to change the fundamentals. Only to protect you we have to change WD mechanics? I don't want to pay 3.0b isk only to be able to blow your 30m mining barge.

I would be more ok to see your proposal about Cloaky Mining Ship which D-unscsnnable, has huge tank, cargohold and able to use ewar to minigate hazards or and ofc got natural bonus to drone damage so could easily smash all the threats off the grid.

Go to NPC corp and enjoy wardecless life.


My EVE-sense is tingling. I have a sneaky feeling if OP doesn't come around he/she will have a few more wardecs in the morning because of this thread...
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#19 - 2015-08-26 00:14:23 UTC
Sonya Corvinus wrote:


My EVE-sense is tingling. I have a sneaky feeling if OP doesn't come around he/she will have a few more wardecs in the morning because of this thread...

would settle for knocking off on pleading for the predator role getting another nerf.
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
#20 - 2015-08-26 07:31:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Mike Voidstar
I could go for the locator agent spawning some Agent Scouts around the target of the search, which could be caught and killed to prevent the locator from having the info.

EVE could be a great game. It has a really terrible player base. Like many new players you showed up expecting a game where you could enjoy the game (PVE) rather than play battlefield in spaceships. Nope. Support for PvE professions died in any meaningful way long ago, and it has devolved into a bait and switch to give easy live targets to a community of sadists. Many of them play with the specific intent of logging on to ruin your day. For that type of player the game lost all interest long ago, and causing you to quit became their highest goal.

Sadly, much of the current development team has been hired from their ranks. While it seems great that the company hires significant portions of its development staff from the player base, when you consider that much of the player base seem to be the kind of people that would eat an infants liver to hear it scream suggests it might not have been a great idea.

If you enjoy PvE, the part of the game that attracted you does not get any deeper. You are pretty much paying for the privilege of providing entertainment to the people killing you for jollys.

What they should do with wardecs is change the benefit of being at war.

Rather than turn high sec into null sec for the affected Corp, it should cause other issues with the intent of encouraging the combatants to leave high sec. For instance, create a locator service that is free but only works if the targets are in high sec. It should create docking fees or even limit docking to government controlled stations rather than those owned by private corps. It could raise fees on market transactions, or disallow in-station transactions and thus require traveling to buy and sell goods- all of which would only be a problem in high sec. It could even allow certain offensive modules to be used without concord intervention, such as ECM and sensor dampeners which could be used to harass eachother, but not allow direct combat without concord involvement. It should not involve modules that could lead immediately to third party deaths, like webs and tackle, or neuts, so that the combatants die helplessly to mission rats, but disruptive actions that would encourage either the acceptance of duels or moving out of high sec where such harrowing can be dealt with directly.
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