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Should EVE Online be reset?

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TrickyBlackSteel
Black Consuls
#161 - 2015-08-24 15:04:53 UTC
i would say a big yes,but this wont happen:) its useless
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#162 - 2015-08-24 15:35:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
... So is your belief that failure must mostly be external. ...
My opinion is that it is usually a balance of both external and internal. However, I don't see this as a revelation that I must lecture people upon at every available opportunity.


#1. If you don't like it, ignore function

#2. "A balance" is a cop out answer , basically proclaiming "the things I wanted to do but have failed to do in life haven't totally been my fault". In real life, It's BS if you live (or can get to) a developed country, in a sandbox game it's even worse than that. People in EVE have proven that you can take the 5000 isk you get on character creation and make a fortune with it, that you can take frigs or industrials and beat vets in cruisers, that you can take ships that "everyone knows suck" and end up on youtube pwning multiple other ships, that you can do the highest end PVE in cheap easy to train for ships etc etc.

Over time I've come to believe that the 'external factors' people tend to be the 'change the world' types who cling to the idea that if you just manipulate a certain environment or factors of it, you can create favorable situations. No one can be surprised that this is how you think, or that you would respond so negatively to the idea that YOU can't change things like you want, because the problem isn't the environment you can manipulate, the problem is people, that you can't (not in the same way).

TL;DR, people like you need it to be someone or something else's fault. It's not.



Back on topic, People who think a reset would help are people who hide behind the idea that some nebulous "external factor" is keeping them down. Part of me would actually like to see a reset, so that after 1-3 months with the people who are rich and prominent in EVE become rich and prominent again, at least we'd have somethign to show to all these 'external factors!' types. Not that it would make any difference to them (you).
Jenshae Chiroptera
#163 - 2015-08-24 15:47:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenshae Chiroptera
Jenn aSide wrote:
... In real life, ... if you ... can get to... a developed country, ...
... and here you show your awareness of external circumstances. Roll
I also love how you need to classify, "people like you."

... and we are into a worthless debate on your pet opinion. *Sigh*

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#164 - 2015-08-24 15:54:17 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:


... and we are into a worthless debate on your pet opinion. *Sigh*


This is what it looks like when an adult male has no sense of personal responsibility. You do recall that YOU replied to one of my posts right (and you keep doing so, and not using the ignore function)?

So ima keep talking, thank you for continuing to provide a platform from which I can broadcast my view of things (and looking at the replies since your post, my views resonate with at least a few others, more so than your own do). Couldn't do it without you...
Jenshae Chiroptera
#165 - 2015-08-24 16:05:44 UTC
"People like them," is an external factor, by the way. Twisted
You are probably quite frustrated because you seem to live under the belief that you can change people. Lol

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#166 - 2015-08-24 16:07:43 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
"People like them," is an external factor, by the way. Twisted
You are probably quite frustrated because you seem to live under the belief that you can change people. Lol


I wouldn't change others if I could (exception, real life criminals). If I could change you, where would we get our entertainment from?
Jenshae Chiroptera
#167 - 2015-08-24 16:11:08 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
... (exception, real life criminals). ...
... who often have a great many external circumstances that propell them in that direction and need exceptional internal will to avoid / overcome.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Bellatrix Invicta
Doomheim
#168 - 2015-08-24 16:11:10 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
"People like them," is an external factor, by the way. Twisted
You are probably quite frustrated because you seem to live under the belief that you can change people. Lol


Just want to interject here and say that you went way off the target with this one. I was enjoying the read until you took a snipe like that; uncool. People can, and do, change and often times for reasons less important than spacepixels.

Carry on.

If you think you've won, think again.

The CODE always wins.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#169 - 2015-08-24 16:44:25 UTC
Bellatrix Invicta wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
... you can change people.
... People can, and do, change ...
Ever seen anyone inject someone else with a cure for alcoholism that worked?
I mean, sure, maybe Jenn is going for the brain washing angle but other than that, people will change from their internal self interest, not from the desires of others.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Bellatrix Invicta
Doomheim
#170 - 2015-08-24 16:51:19 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Bellatrix Invicta wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
... you can change people.
... People can, and do, change ...
Ever seen anyone inject someone else with a cure for alcoholism that worked?
I mean, sure, maybe Jenn is going for the brain washing angle but other than that, people will change from their internal self interest, not from the desires of others.


Using a specific example to disprove a generalization is not only bad form, it's really really wrong. Just, stop.

If you think you've won, think again.

The CODE always wins.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#171 - 2015-08-24 16:56:01 UTC
Bellatrix Invicta wrote:
Using a specific example ...
Top of my head, patriots, nationalists, fundamentalists and Code. P

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Bellatrix Invicta
Doomheim
#172 - 2015-08-24 16:58:05 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Bellatrix Invicta wrote:
Using a specific example ...
Top of my head, patriots, nationalists, fundamentalists and Code. P


And now mixing in-game with RL.

"Kay. The thread is yours again; I'm done.

If you think you've won, think again.

The CODE always wins.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#173 - 2015-08-24 16:58:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
... (exception, real life criminals). ...
... who often have a great many external circumstances that propel them in that direction and need exceptional internal will to avoid / overcome.


That you would be an apologist for people who do real life evil is no surprise.

How then do you explain those of us from the SAME 'external' circumstances (poor, perhaps the "wrong color", from the 'wrong side of the tracks" with no 'connections', with adverse mental health histories in their families etc) who not only don't become criminals, but come up to contribute to society?

Believing in the power of the 'external factors' is just a way people salve their own egos about things. Problem is, they take that belief into every endeavor. Even recreational ones (like playing a spaceship MMO).

Then they find themselves on said spaceship MMO's forum believing that 'if you just lower this barrier (or remove it, like resstting the whole game), more people will come'. So the game developer lowers the barrier, and more people don't come (because while they blamed the barrier, it was their lack of will that was at fault). Meanwhile, people who ignored the barrier (or NEEDED THAT BARRIER TO EXIST to make the journey into that mmo worthwhile) end up playing less because the game is less challenging. A fine example of a good intention making things worse rather than better.

I think it is no coincidence that EVE Online is today more safe, more user friendly, more accessible than ever before while at the exact same time seeming to be less popular than it has been in a very long time. The desire that some have for a reset is just a continuation of the failed "if you just level the playing field" mentality that imo has led to the current situation.

Real players don't give a flip about level playing fields, they simply find a way to be the guys standing on the best part of the field...
Jenshae Chiroptera
#174 - 2015-08-24 17:13:57 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
... How then do you explain those of us from the SAME 'external' circumstances...
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
... external circumstances ... internal will ...
How do you explain the greater propensity for violent crime from poor backgrounds?

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Sarah Eyrou
Doomheim
#175 - 2015-08-24 23:51:55 UTC
how to reset? wont people lose their skills and assets?
Jenshae Chiroptera
#176 - 2015-08-25 00:46:58 UTC
Sarah Eyrou wrote:
how to reset?
Yes, you basically just clear out the character database.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Divine Entervention
Doomheim
#177 - 2015-08-25 00:54:04 UTC
it's nice to see that the people who understand what's really going on are all coming to the same conclusion that EvE needs to be reset.

The rest of you:

Don't worry, we'll pick you up on the next lap.
admiral root
Red Galaxy
#178 - 2015-08-25 01:14:37 UTC
Divine Entervention wrote:
it's nice to see that the people who understand what's really going on


That would be CCP

Divine Entervention wrote:
are all coming to the same conclusion that EvE needs to be reset.


Devblog? Dev post on the forum? I'll even take a failbook or twit message.

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff
Jenshae Chiroptera
#179 - 2015-08-25 01:19:42 UTC
Divine Entervention wrote:
it's nice to see that the people who understand what's really going on are all coming to the same conclusion that EvE needs to be reset. ....
EVE isn't new, thus it won't get enough new players. It would lose too many current ones.
It won't happen.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Dror
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#180 - 2015-08-25 01:23:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Dror
Markus Reese wrote:
Limited alternatives mean limited player base.

This is a lot more truth than what might seem obvious. It's supposed to be a sandbox, with progression and freedom.

--

@ this sort of odd banter, it would make more sense if the argument was about actually doing something in-game for the equivalent of SP; but the mechanic is just arbitrary gating. There's no motivation in a set queue, because there's no reward for any amount of play.

No socialization because of low character value? SP problem. Gameplay doesn't seem open, and thus competitive, because all of the depth is behind worthless limitations? SP problem. Stations are empty because of limited industry SP? Sov is unchallenged because of limited character and, thus, corp progression?

Yet these are all main criticisms of the game with no other obvious source. The gameplay is fun enough, for any niche -- including marketing and advanced ship maneuvers (that the game is basically a 3D ARPG); yet playing any interesting role well is behind a completely preposterous amount of non-gameplay.

"SP is helpful for the game?" Here's all of the research on motivation -- it says the opposite! What purpose does it serve, then? Starter corps are non-competitive. Sov is unchallenged. "Fix sov!" you say? Remove SP.