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Galatea Entosis Speed Limit/stasis web broken interactions

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Borachon
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2015-08-22 15:41:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Borachon
Testing the speed limit on SiSi, it's interaction with webs is broken. In particular:

  1. I created a snaked, unlinked daredevil that goes 6.5km/s unheated, 10km/s heated, and fitted it with an entisos link.
  2. I set it to orbit a rapier fit with a T2 (60%) web at 20 km.
  3. Unwebbed, the daredevil goes 4km/s as it should
  4. Webbed and unheated the daredevil goes 2600 m/s (40% * 6.5km/s), not 1600 m/s (40% * 4km/s)
  5. Webbed and heated, the daredevil does 4000 m/s (40% * 10km/s), not 1600 m/s (40% * 4km/s)


tl;dr: Under the current speed limit mechanics, you can create ships that go 4km/s when fit with an entosis link fit, and still goes 4km/s even after being hit with a 60% stasis web.
Athryn Bellee
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#2 - 2015-08-23 23:40:19 UTC
This is why they shouldn't bother with any speed limit shenanigans and just turn off any prop mods once the entosis is activated. I don't think any ship regardless of whatever implants and links they get are going to be going near 4km/s.
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#3 - 2015-08-24 04:12:26 UTC
lets hope thats actually a bug and not one of those unfixable legacy code issues

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#4 - 2015-08-24 11:31:03 UTC
This is by design. It's a hard speed limit, not part of the other normal speed modifiers.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie
Masaaq
Soggy Biscuit.
#5 - 2015-08-24 12:28:47 UTC
Bring a Lachesis next time. Problem solved.
Max Kolonko
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#6 - 2015-08-24 13:39:46 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
This is by design. It's a hard speed limit, not part of the other normal speed modifiers.


Sorry fozzie, but that only confirms that design is flawed.

Because it causes a module that would normally be effective against a ship becoming useless in this scenario. First of all this is issue not only when trying to catch ship entosising your structure but also when you try to catch the same ship on gate camp for exanple (if someone actually managed to point it)

Using webs you expect a ship to slow down.this is not chance based module. There are no modules or effect (wh put aside) in game that changes how webs work (reduce effectiveness). But niw sudenly you remove its usefulness against particular ships. This goes against the goal of not interfere with tactics used for structure controll. Now you have to skip webs and try ships with longer scrams to catch them limiting effectively to ceptors ships that can be used to capture trollceptors.

Read and support: Don't mess with OUR WH's What is Your stance on WH stuff?
Masaaq
Soggy Biscuit.
#7 - 2015-08-24 14:59:46 UTC
Max Kolonko wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
This is by design. It's a hard speed limit, not part of the other normal speed modifiers.


Sorry fozzie, but that only confirms that design is flawed.

Because it causes a module that would normally be effective against a ship becoming useless in this scenario. First of all this is issue not only when trying to catch ship entosising your structure but also when you try to catch the same ship on gate camp for exanple (if someone actually managed to point it)

Using webs you expect a ship to slow down.this is not chance based module. There are no modules or effect (wh put aside) in game that changes how webs work (reduce effectiveness). But niw sudenly you remove its usefulness against particular ships. This goes against the goal of not interfere with tactics used for structure controll. Now you have to skip webs and try ships with longer scrams to catch them limiting effectively to ceptors ships that can be used to capture trollceptors.


Or you just bring a ship that moves at 4,001m/s with a scram and web.
Borachon
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2015-08-24 15:14:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Borachon
Masaaq wrote:
Bring a Lachesis next time. Problem solved.


Using the same mechanics, you can also make a Phantasm setup that goes 4k when fitted with a T2 entosis link and still goes 4kms when hit by a scram and a T2 web.

EDIT: An example of such a fit
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
#9 - 2015-08-24 15:22:05 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
This is by design. It's a hard speed limit, not part of the other normal speed modifiers.

If this is by design then it can be easily changed. Arbitrary hard caps that fall outside of regular speed mechanics seems like a contrived solution that will be abused by Trollceptor 2.0 instead of achieving your goal of requiring attackers to commit to an entosis attempt.

Seriously CCP, just up the fitting requirements so that only a battlecruiser or battleship can fit them easily. You'll do away with trolling entosis attempts and you'll revitalize battlecruiser and battleship fleets at the same time. It isn't rocket science.

Relatively Notorious By Association

My Many Misadventures

I predicted FAUXs
Kenneth Feld
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#10 - 2015-08-24 15:53:28 UTC
Borachon wrote:
Testing the speed limit on SiSi, it's interaction with webs is broken. In particular:

  1. I created a snaked, unlinked daredevil that goes 6.5km/s unheated, 10km/s heated, and fitted it with an entisos link.
  2. I set it to orbit a rapier fit with a T2 (60%) web at 20 km.
  3. Unwebbed, the daredevil goes 4km/s as it should
  4. Webbed and unheated the daredevil goes 2600 m/s (40% * 6.5km/s), not 1600 m/s (40% * 4km/s)
  5. Webbed and heated, the daredevil does 4000 m/s (40% * 10km/s), not 1600 m/s (40% * 4km/s)


tl;dr: Under the current speed limit mechanics, you can create ships that go 4km/s when fit with an entosis link fit, and still goes 4km/s even after being hit with a 60% stasis web.



What happens when you fit the rapier with a pair of fed navy webs like you should have from the beginning?
Nartel Vortok
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#11 - 2015-08-24 15:55:07 UTC
Kenneth Feld wrote:
Borachon wrote:
Testing the speed limit on SiSi, it's interaction with webs is broken. In particular:

  1. I created a snaked, unlinked daredevil that goes 6.5km/s unheated, 10km/s heated, and fitted it with an entisos link.
  2. I set it to orbit a rapier fit with a T2 (60%) web at 20 km.
  3. Unwebbed, the daredevil goes 4km/s as it should
  4. Webbed and unheated the daredevil goes 2600 m/s (40% * 6.5km/s), not 1600 m/s (40% * 4km/s)
  5. Webbed and heated, the daredevil does 4000 m/s (40% * 10km/s), not 1600 m/s (40% * 4km/s)


tl;dr: Under the current speed limit mechanics, you can create ships that go 4km/s when fit with an entosis link fit, and still goes 4km/s even after being hit with a 60% stasis web.



What happens when you fit the rapier with a pair of fed navy webs like you should have from the beginning?


The same thing because they are both -60% ?
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
#12 - 2015-08-24 15:55:55 UTC
Kenneth Feld wrote:
What happens when you fit the rapier with a pair of fed navy webs like you should have from the beginning?

The bigger question should be what happens to sov warfare when a faction-fited Rapier becomes a de-facto tool to defend sov from trolling attacks?

Relatively Notorious By Association

My Many Misadventures

I predicted FAUXs
Tappits
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#13 - 2015-08-24 15:59:36 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
This is by design. It's a hard speed limit, not part of the other normal speed modifiers.



Seems fine to me. its not like the 7-8k/s+ ships were not dieing anyway.
Talbrys Narentyr
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#14 - 2015-08-24 15:59:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Talbrys Narentyr
Nartel Vortok wrote:
Kenneth Feld wrote:
Borachon wrote:
Testing the speed limit on SiSi, it's interaction with webs is broken. In particular:

  1. I created a snaked, unlinked daredevil that goes 6.5km/s unheated, 10km/s heated, and fitted it with an entisos link.
  2. I set it to orbit a rapier fit with a T2 (60%) web at 20 km.
  3. Unwebbed, the daredevil goes 4km/s as it should
  4. Webbed and unheated the daredevil goes 2600 m/s (40% * 6.5km/s), not 1600 m/s (40% * 4km/s)
  5. Webbed and heated, the daredevil does 4000 m/s (40% * 10km/s), not 1600 m/s (40% * 4km/s)


tl;dr: Under the current speed limit mechanics, you can create ships that go 4km/s when fit with an entosis link fit, and still goes 4km/s even after being hit with a 60% stasis web.



What happens when you fit the rapier with a pair of fed navy webs like you should have from the beginning?


The same thing because they are both -60% ?


Are you actually that ******** or just pretending?

You use both at the same time, bringing it down to 1600m/s heated, 1040m/s unheated.
Kenneth Feld
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#15 - 2015-08-24 16:01:03 UTC
Bronson Hughes wrote:
Kenneth Feld wrote:
What happens when you fit the rapier with a pair of fed navy webs like you should have from the beginning?

The bigger question should be what happens to sov warfare when a faction-fited Rapier becomes a de-facto tool to defend sov from trolling attacks?



T2 is the same 60%, just less range

So, OK, lets assume T2

What happens when you fit 2 T2 like you should have from the beginning?
Kenneth Feld
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#16 - 2015-08-24 16:01:51 UTC
Nartel Vortok wrote:
Kenneth Feld wrote:
Borachon wrote:
Testing the speed limit on SiSi, it's interaction with webs is broken. In particular:

  1. I created a snaked, unlinked daredevil that goes 6.5km/s unheated, 10km/s heated, and fitted it with an entisos link.
  2. I set it to orbit a rapier fit with a T2 (60%) web at 20 km.
  3. Unwebbed, the daredevil goes 4km/s as it should
  4. Webbed and unheated the daredevil goes 2600 m/s (40% * 6.5km/s), not 1600 m/s (40% * 4km/s)
  5. Webbed and heated, the daredevil does 4000 m/s (40% * 10km/s), not 1600 m/s (40% * 4km/s)


tl;dr: Under the current speed limit mechanics, you can create ships that go 4km/s when fit with an entosis link fit, and still goes 4km/s even after being hit with a 60% stasis web.



What happens when you fit the rapier with a pair of fed navy webs like you should have from the beginning?


The same thing because they are both -60% ?



Did you really just answer that with that statement.....

Please just uninstall the client now......
captain foivos
State War Academy
Caldari State
#17 - 2015-08-24 16:03:30 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
This is by design. It's a hard speed limit, not part of the other normal speed modifiers.


"feature"
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
#18 - 2015-08-24 16:04:41 UTC
Kenneth Feld wrote:
Bronson Hughes wrote:
Kenneth Feld wrote:
What happens when you fit the rapier with a pair of fed navy webs like you should have from the beginning?

The bigger question should be what happens to sov warfare when a faction-fited Rapier becomes a de-facto tool to defend sov from trolling attacks?



T2 is the same 60%, just less range

So, OK, lets assume T2

What happens when you fit 2 T2 like you should have from the beginning?

I was assuming that the range was actually beneficial given the mechanics involved and the Rapier's web range bonus, but my point is the same regardless. Let me broaden my question somewhat:

What happens to sov warfare when the ability to apply speed control to hostile fast-movers becomes the de-facto tool to defend sov from trolling attacks?

Relatively Notorious By Association

My Many Misadventures

I predicted FAUXs
captain foivos
State War Academy
Caldari State
#19 - 2015-08-24 16:05:44 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
This is by design. It's a hard speed limit, not part of the other normal speed modifiers.


are you incapable of comprehending the problem that the speed limit was asked for as a solution

or do you just have an undying hard-on for frigates and T3 destroyers to be the only classes of ship worth flying in this game

these are serious questions
Porucznik Borewicz
GreenSwarm
#20 - 2015-08-24 16:06:42 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
This is by design. It's a hard speed limit, not part of the other normal speed modifiers.
Works as intended. Move along.
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