Player Features and Ideas Discussion

No we're not going to w-space, stay on topic! I didn't make the miner ship because CCP hinted they are already working on mining fixes, so I'd rather put my efforts on something new that I could have an effect on.



This is very true - I had a past war in mind when I started coming up with the idea. And agreed, w-space will really see a lot out of these ships. Just wish I had thought out the reprocessing bit and included it in the original presentation. I linked it at least.

Some questions. I am not a manufacturer and apologise if they are things I should know.

Blueprints? Kept in ships? Risk level too high?

Ability to cloak? Things stop if cloaked?

Can only pilot manufacture? Are lanes available to all?

Does jumping, warping, or moving terminate activity or pause it?

Can stuff be deployed and fitted in space using these ships?

What this guy said too!

Thanks for asking Kasulli amd Lakuma! Like Lakuma said, rorquals only compress.

Yes, pending the ship can fit those items into its hold to reprocess. This is necessary really, especially for exploration corporations or anyone who would want to roam in drone regions. Not being able to process modules and compounds would be a serious problem - this also allows a nomadic corporation to forego having miners on hand if they, instead, locate materials via combat.

PvE - Rogue Drones, Sleepers, Pirates...
PvP - Enemy wrecks drop modules which could be processed to help manufacture something you actually need. Again, I can see pirates actually doing a lot with these ships to supplement their playstyle of 'self-preservation', getting rid of the mission alt entirely if they so chose.

Simply put: it would make having a compression industrial core seem daft. Why squeeze something into a small space if you are just going to refine it anyway?

As for the topic, I agree with it, though it does step on the toes of my mothership idea :(

I would love to see this. It would drastically change New Eden, for the better.

That last bit I did not know Beor, good to know! You are right in that not many players will actually use these ships - after all most of us want to shoot something and, hands down, the majority of our ships are designed to do just that.

These ships will not change EVE as a whole, they provide opportunities at all levels of EVE.

Your point on efficiency is a very true one, after all is this not why dreadnaughts aren't used at the moment? These ships enable a gameplay style, and but as I said they're not meant to replace POS. These ships will best benefit a smaller corporation unable (or unwilling) to construct a POS in nullsec/lowsec/wh. Instead it allows them to take part in these regions in a nomadic way. My own corporation is a good example of one that would maybe live in W-Space, but wouldn't want to fiddle with the logistics of a POS.

HOWEVER - make no mistake, this is not an 'easy' solution to w-space in that instance. These ships are effectively an in-between step from raiding w-space (as many players do now) and living in w-space via POS.

Relative to nullsec - this is indeed a problem, POS refining and manufacturing almost being so poor most people still use station lanes. If this is indeed the case (I won't profess having intense knowledge of nullsec, which is why I want feedback like yours!) then these ships could very well be balanced in a way that does make them a viable option over POS manufacturing. This, however, is a sticky topic and I'm unsure of balancing that. It's well know CCP is looking at POS mechanics, so I'm going to leave that issue untouched if that's ok.

Keep up the feedback, thanks for your opinion Beor!

You present a good argument Monty, but my concern is this:

If you require the ships to be uncloaked (and presumably undocked too in cases where stations are around), then what does a player do about a manufacturing job hours long? Should the lane be able to work if the ship goes offline (as in the player logs out?) or are you suggesting this be restricted to very short cycle - which makes the largest ship nearly useless.

I don't have qualms with the ship cloaking as it manufactures but starting jobs requires decloak, like any other functions. And in agreement, usage of the cores absolutely requires no cloaking as it is an active module.

You've brought up a really important concern, keep discussing it. A cloaked manufacturing ship is indeed a concern for balance. We agree on cores (which make the ship immovable) not allowing cloaks, but what about standard manufacturing at the reduced rates?

Actually - since we're now getting into nitty gritty details on balance like Monty's point, we could really use a CCP'er opinion to guide this part. Thanks!

If the minerals come out at a higher waste and it takes fuel, then compressing and shiping to be refined will still be a cheaper, better option for you, but it makes no sense to increase the amounts of ships by so many. Modify the ones we have and make the waste high enough that people will have to consider whether or not to export to a station to refine.

Compressing and Shipping is only an option in K-Space, not worm holes. I personally have no qualms with adding ships to EVE so long as they actually add. Your concern about redundancy is an important one, so keep that at the forefront of this discussion. Changing the stats or capabilities of an existing ship cuts down on dev time a lot - you don't have to design a new ship in the art department for starters.

However, I think compression goes hand in hand with these ships - especially the mobile refiners. Compression would allow these ships to churn out more minerals quicker by fitting more into their holds. This means that even with reduced efficiency, a rorqual with refinement ships might be more efficient in terms of time - compress the ore still, but so you can get minerals much faster than having to haul them to the nearest station with high standings. For corporations that lack those logistics (from wars, lack of members, routes, etc) this opens up that option even further.

Another problem Gerrick is skill requirements - by adding features to a ship, you require even more skills to make it effective. One of the reasons EVE has so many ships is because of this. We could have just made a single cruiser that has all the capabilities of all the tech II ships, just dependent on fitting instead. This is why Ostia is so inefficient - it's a new player ship that introduces the MMS concept, much like Gaia is an easily accessed refining ship (that's not super efficient compared to it's T2).

Somewhat off topic, but important to remember is the fun in EVE - Progression. What makes getting into a battleship or Hulk enjoyable? They are no different than the frigate or bantam you came from...same story at the end of the day, but bigger and better. This is the joy of EVE. Traders see this when they start trading in battleships...instead of cheap 1MN afterburners. This is why there are multiples of these ships - they enable a player to specialize in a field they enjoy. Many manufacturers HATE mining - buying their minerals instead, or relying on miners in their corp. Just as many miners HATE manufacturing. I happen to be the former. These ships expand on the careers in Industry and give Manufacturers a ship that really belongs to their career.