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Warfare & Tactics

 
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Stepping into Faction Warfare

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Author
Sugar Kyle
Middle Ground
#1 - 2015-08-21 14:33:24 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Leeloo
Hey there. I’ve been tasked with a little fact finding and I’d love to get some help in this. I’ve been gathering the complaints, hopes, and dreams of members of faction warfare since I was elected and ramped it up a bit since Fanfest. There is a lot on this plate with proposals and documents and thousands of lines of productive discussion involved in looking towards Faction Warfare's future.

I’d like to take a minute to focus on the new players entering Faction Warfare. They are suggested to their various militia during the career missions. Some, we hope, will find themselves a corporation and learn. Others cast themselves into the war and plan to learn along the way.

We need to make this better.

I’ve collected lots of hurdles for new players enter FW. From the standings hits that they will take to the lack of a good overview tab to help them sort out who is friend and who is foe there are dozens of things that could make this process smoother. I’d love to hear your ideas.

I know that we have a lot of high end things to discuss from better PvP rewards to missions god help them and all of us. I’m paying attention to all of that too. But this is a point I’d like to hear from you all about. Your personal experiences, your recruiters experiences, the things that you believe will improve your militia and help inject new blood into things.

Like the faction police in high sec. Should we be laughing at them? How do we look at giving militia chat an MOTD or some type of information board with things like militia coms, overview packs, and general help? Standings, oh my oh my, standings. Should pirate frigates be in novice plexes?

And that’s just the tip of the iceberg. Please help me unearth the rest.

Member of CSM9 and CSM10.

Thanatos Marathon
Moira.
Villore Accords
#2 - 2015-08-21 14:37:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Thanatos Marathon
Welcome to FW mail from NPC corp with useful information (link to how plexes work, basic FW overview pack, how to find a fleet in fleet finder, how to start one, external tools like dotlan, etc.).
Massive warning about standings issues long term.
Basic Militia Overview in Militia chat and FW panel and in welcome to FW email.
Contracts to Militia so that corps with established and strong logistics groups can help support newbros with prefit ships.
Get rid of allied militia/purple overview issues.
Strengthen the response of highsec navy NPCs so that the rats can't be tanked nor dragged away forever. This will still allow speed based attacks (warp in, pew, run away) in enemy highsec.
Standings Issues, including applying standings on an individual level instead of a corp/alliance level.
Smooth out the tier system so Tier1 payouts aren't so small and Tier4+ aren't so amazingly large (devalues plex lp).
Ban T3Ds from small plexes.
Remove aggression from plex rats (solves afk oplexing in a drone boat as well as making sure newbro's aren't taking damage from a freshly spawned NPC while also combatting the enemy).
Training for basics of frigate pew, fittings and tactics (scram, scram kite, kite).
FW specific advertising.
Suspect on plex gates.
Slight nerf to pirate frigs, specifically garmur and worm (or ban them from novices).
Reduce the strength of all links by 40% (random number).
Increase new character SP by a million and a half and put them in core skills (navigation, cap, shields, armor, etc.) and base racial frig and weapon systems.
Change default warp to range on plexes to 10 so newbro's don't get caught on accel gate by warping at zero.
Kenneth Feld
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#3 - 2015-08-21 15:21:07 UTC
If they want to stay in a NPC corp, maybe swap them to a specific faction NPC corp, so corp chat will be amongst other people in the same militia only, this will help communication quite a bit.
Veratrix
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2015-08-21 15:28:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Veratrix
Militia contracts would be nice. Would let us put up lots of attrition fit stuff that we can get to the general militia population that would make it much easier for them to participate in the big system pushes.

A militia overview pack would be great. Don't set the allied militia blue to start off with(hopefully will be solved with 4 way war), put militia in front of pirate/suspect/criminal.

Don't do high sec shenanigans, so no opinion on the npc rats. Seems like the highsec FW noob should be a bit more protected then they currently are(should join a corp and live in lowsec really), but I have no strong feelings either way.

Missions are obviously much harder for gallente then any other group. I'd actually much rather other groups missions be as difficult as ours as opposed to making ours easier, but I don't really make my isk with missions or care that other people do so I'll let more passionate people expound on that subject.

I know you said this is not what this is about, but I'll still mention every time. Faction standings losses from aoe weapons need to go. Either an exemption for fleet members or getting rid of them altogether. Stopping us for participating in lots of gameplay and tactics open to literally everyone else in game. Quite ridiculous.
Drackarn
Stay Frosty.
A Band Apart.
#5 - 2015-08-21 15:36:11 UTC
Overview is one of the biggest issues I come across. As a "Security Status Challenged" individual I get many new-bro's charging into my plex and engaging when we are in same militia.

Perhaps the 'pilot in same militia' needs to override the 'Pilot is a filthy piwat'

Another one is the allied militia thing. Once they get the overview right, they then get spanked by someone they thought was friendly but is actually in the allied militia and simply uses that to gank people. I have used this trick before to get close to stabbed farmers and triple scram them. Then again they deserve to die.... horribly.

As someone previously posted, if we decouple the alliances in faction war and go for some 4-way action in FW this won't be an issue.

http://sandciderandspaceships.blogspot.com/

IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome
Awesome Alliance
#6 - 2015-08-21 15:44:08 UTC

Most beginners complain to me about not being able to be taxed on their LP.

An LP Tax would help them a lot.


CoolCoolCool
X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Spaceship Bebop
#7 - 2015-08-21 15:52:54 UTC  |  Edited by: X Gallentius
I think the guys above have covered most of the stuff.

Default Militia-specific overview available. Stops newbie awox issues of newbs shooting FW pilots with low standings.
Automatic suspect flag in plexes. Keeps noob standings high so they can still live in high sec.
Get rid of allied-militia purple OR hammer standings for allied militia kills (Gallente on Minmatar violence, for example).
- The current war is defined as Gallente+Minmatar vs. Caldari+Amarr.
- Either set the game up so this is true, or break it apart to a real four way war. No ambiguity.
Ban high sec station access to opposing militia. Gets rid of high sec station games (vets preying on noobs in Jita/Dodixie/Rens).

Edit: Re-phrasing to emphasize pain points for noobs:
1. Getting killed by own militia because they accidently shoot fellow militia and / or fleet mates because overview is set up poorly.
2. Sec status loss having to fight neutrals in plexes makes living in high sec very difficult.
3. Large barrier to entry for living in low sec without logistics backbone.
4. Understanding why somebody who is purple can shoot you with no repercussions. Like, WTF?!!!
5. Getting griefed in high sec by high sec camping specialists. Why are these guys able to dock in enemy systems?
Sugar Kyle
Middle Ground
#8 - 2015-08-21 16:13:43 UTC
IbanezLaney wrote:

Most beginners complain to me about not being able to be taxed on their LP.

An LP Tax would help them a lot.


CoolCoolCool


New players and new entrants to FW come to you and state that their game would be improved if they could just have their LP taxed?

Member of CSM9 and CSM10.

Arla Sarain
#9 - 2015-08-21 16:42:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Arla Sarain
Bring awareness to Highsec-lowsec camps (not intel, just their possibility)

Bring awareness to the available evasive options against camps

Introduce Militia Personal Deployables? Eg: Militia Mobile Depot - a lot cheaper, lasts 1h.

Fleet window tutorial of some kind, outlining broadcasts, fleet hierarchy, watchlists, the ability to lock from broadcasts, broadcasts going to the top of overview, etc. Functional details, so that they don't go "where did that target just go I cant see it".

Mention tunnel vision...



Gather facts tho, I get the impression that the newbies who want to actually fight in FW simply look for dedicated corps, and figure things out from there.
The ones who are stubborn and keep flying through Tama/Villore are just farmers looking for a quick buck.


Also T3Ds, whilst should definitely get canned one way or another, are hardly the first threat to newbies. Even opponents flying T1 frigs with T2 modules and higher SP will most often destroy newbies.
Nyjil Lizaru
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2015-08-21 17:15:19 UTC
Lots of great ideas already.

If CCP really wants brand-new players to enter FW, then the overview and the entry-level ISK-making opportunities are probably the two biggest issues.

We always say that new players should join a corp, but we need to acknowledge that the very stories about the game that draw people to EVE also make them suspicious. And we're gonna have 'lone wolves' in FW, it's one of the places that draw them. So an appropriate MOTD in either militia chat or the FW NPC corp chat sounds like a good idea, something that points them to more information. A way for those who aren't sure who to trust to find stuff that isn't covered in the tutorials. It might mean gathering various FW guides that have been made by players into a central location and making them semi-official, not sure how CCP would feel about that.

The faction police are OK that way they are, imo. I know they're a bit of a joke, but I think the opposing faction players should be the concern, not the NPCs.

Repeating from above because it's a big one: Automatic suspect flag in plexes. (Larger question: why do we lose sec status for shooting 'bad guys'? If I'm -2 and shoot at a -10, I should get a boost! ;) )

Get T3Ds out of smalls.

Is there any way to make LP easier to cash out without opening it to abuse? That might help the new players (not sure about that, just a thought).

Nyjil's corollary to Malcanis' Law:   "Any attempt by CCP to smooth the learning curve of EVE Online will be carried out via the addition of extra factors and 'features' such that there is a net increase in complexity."

Nameira Vanis-Tor
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#11 - 2015-08-21 17:17:37 UTC
Some elements that would help new players in FW:

1) Very very simple, sticky the active and recruiting FW corps thread in this forum located here...https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=342520&find=unread

If you can get an in game pointer to it somehow that would be useful. This will allow new players to find FW specialist corps who don't mind new recruits quickly and learn the ropes from them.

2) Faction standings hit are a problem for new players, if they are to be kept it would be good if the players can be clearly warned that this will happen.

3) Sec standings hits are a barrier to playing FW. Pirates are an important part of the warzones however engaging them in plexes results in FW players having to constantly repair their sec status if they want to go in high sec at all. Vet players with ISK just buy tags. New pilots have to waste a lot of time PVEing in order to access trade hubs. Giving a criminal flag for entering a plex will help new pilots to stay in FW.

4) Pirate faction frigs should be banned from Novice Plexes OR Novice Plexes should be renamed. It is a misleading name when a vet in a Garmur or Worm can pulverise a squadron of new players single handed with ease. The purpose of Novice Plexes should be to allow low skilled pilots to still be able to influence a system attack/defence and level the playing field a little bit versus high sp pilots; Pirate Fac frigs (especially Garmurs and Worms) negate this purpose.

5) T3 Dessies should not be in small Plexes they have become cancer there and are not new pilot friendly.

Some of the other things raised would be useful but the above would be quick fixes to help new entrants and FW pilot retention in my opinion.
Moglarr
Operation Meatshield
#12 - 2015-08-21 17:58:51 UTC
Why can the default order of things in the overview be not be changed? I think that would be easier than an overview pack.

I think it would be nice to have militia-level contracts, but if they work just like public contracts I am not sure I see a problem with just using public contracts.

I hear suspect flags for neutrals hitting plexes are inbound, I like that. (This also resolved a lot of issue with the 'safety' feature so yay!)

The thing I run into the most with my newbros is the "warp to a plex @ 10km" thing. Every vet FW players knows this and does it by default now, but also every one of us has died to an enemy fleet because that first time we hit a plex we warped at 0 and were stuck inside the acceleration gate. I don't know if that is a bigger EVE thing or just a FW thing, but that would be nice to fix. Not the biggest of deals tho.

I don't know 100% where to land on the high end faction frigs and tech 3 destroyers in plexes. Although I will admit I struggle to counter the t3d with the lower SP pilots I tend to fly with, so it would obviously help me and my newbros out if one or two Svipuls couldn't single-handed-ly lock my gangs out of small plexes. However, all of my Garmur and Worm kills have come from the enemy pilot thinking he was hot **** with his links, drugs and w/e only to get caught on the beacon.

I also like Nameira Vanis-Tor's idea of making a sticky of this thread would help.

I think something should be done about faction police, but I haven't really ever left low sec so I don't know enough to comment. However, the number of newbros that get ganked via elite high sec PVP concerns me.
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#13 - 2015-08-21 17:59:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Bienator II
if the militia chat would have a moderated MOTD a lot of useful information could be added there
- how to setup your overview (or CCP could just update the overview defaults but they are not doing that for unexplained reasons)
- link to the FW wiki to explain plexing and basic FW mechanics (sadly the wiki is very outdated.. it would need to be updated first)
- maybe even a link which opens the corp finder with filters preset to list recruiting FW corps (if something like that is possible)

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value

Jes Jernau
Biomass processing reactor
#14 - 2015-08-21 20:23:43 UTC
Started EVE in January 2015 and joined a FW Corp shortly afterwards.

I would suggest reworking the jumpclone mechanics, specifically reducing the cool down timer. New players trying to skill up to pew but take a training hit when out of learning implants. Especially early in the game.

Or as suggested bump new player skills up a bit.

Estella Osoka
Perkone
Caldari State
#15 - 2015-08-21 21:14:06 UTC
Apply FozzieSov to FW. Twisted
X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Spaceship Bebop
#16 - 2015-08-21 21:35:22 UTC
(Newbro thread, not overall FW improvement thread)
Silverbackyererse
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#17 - 2015-08-22 00:36:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Silverbackyererse
Good luck with this mate. And congratulations on getting what I reckon is the first and only sticky I've ever seen in this section of the forums. Blink

What do CCP envisage for a FW newbie? Hopefully it's not the quadruple warp core stabilised ship farming novice complexes. Blink Tell us what they are aiming for and maybe we can help. Otherwise it's all just lip service.


Perhaps CCP need to provide a lot more information or links to information about faction warfare first up on the enlistment page.
Expanding the rules of engagement could use a lot more information also.
To put this into context, our corporation bulletins have more relevant info that a new bro would find about FW than CCP provide via in game sanctioned methods.


Make it easier for new bro's to find a new-bro friendly corporations. Expanding the corporation recruitment ads could facilitate this. Include a check box for newbie friendly and the faction. Add a MOTD in the NPC chat channels directing newbies to these corporation ads might work perhaps? Make it easier for the new player to get out of the NPC corporations where they will always be met with suspicion and prejudice.



EDIT : - Please don't dumb FW down by aiming to please the lowest common denominator!
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome
Awesome Alliance
#18 - 2015-08-22 01:11:31 UTC
Sugar Kyle wrote:
IbanezLaney wrote:

Most beginners complain to me about not being able to be taxed on their LP.

An LP Tax would help them a lot.


CoolCoolCool


New players and new entrants to FW come to you and state that their game would be improved if they could just have their LP taxed?



Yep.

Happens almost daily.

P
Sugar Kyle
Middle Ground
#19 - 2015-08-22 06:14:09 UTC
Silverbackyererse wrote:
Good luck with this mate. And congratulations on getting what I reckon is the first and only sticky I've ever seen in this section of the forums. Blink

What do CCP envisage for a FW newbie? Hopefully it's not the quadruple warp core stabilised ship farming novice complexes. Blink Tell us what they are aiming for and maybe we can help. Otherwise it's all just lip service.


Perhaps CCP need to provide a lot more information or links to information about faction warfare first up on the enlistment page.
Expanding the rules of engagement could use a lot more information also.
To put this into context, our corporation bulletins have more relevant info that a new bro would find about FW than CCP provide via in game sanctioned methods.


Make it easier for new bro's to find a new-bro friendly corporations. Expanding the corporation recruitment ads could facilitate this. Include a check box for newbie friendly and the faction. Add a MOTD in the NPC chat channels directing newbies to these corporation ads might work perhaps? Make it easier for the new player to get out of the NPC corporations where they will always be met with suspicion and prejudice.



EDIT : - Please don't dumb FW down by aiming to please the lowest common denominator!


I understand your request but that is not the direction that I will find what I need. I need to know what is needed jow and what pain points there are. I don't need people to temper and try to design it. I need them to share what is said and heard and expierence from logging in each day.

Member of CSM9 and CSM10.

Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2015-08-22 17:02:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Demerius Xenocratus
Sugar Kyle wrote:
Silverbackyererse wrote:
Good luck with this mate. And congratulations on getting what I reckon is the first and only sticky I've ever seen in this section of the forums. Blink

What do CCP envisage for a FW newbie? Hopefully it's not the quadruple warp core stabilised ship farming novice complexes. Blink Tell us what they are aiming for and maybe we can help. Otherwise it's all just lip service.


Perhaps CCP need to provide a lot more information or links to information about faction warfare first up on the enlistment page.
Expanding the rules of engagement could use a lot more information also.
To put this into context, our corporation bulletins have more relevant info that a new bro would find about FW than CCP provide via in game sanctioned methods.


Make it easier for new bro's to find a new-bro friendly corporations. Expanding the corporation recruitment ads could facilitate this. Include a check box for newbie friendly and the faction. Add a MOTD in the NPC chat channels directing newbies to these corporation ads might work perhaps? Make it easier for the new player to get out of the NPC corporations where they will always be met with suspicion and prejudice.



EDIT : - Please don't dumb FW down by aiming to please the lowest common denominator!


I understand your request but that is not the direction that I will find what I need. I need to know what is needed jow and what pain points there are. I don't need people to temper and try to design it. I need them to share what is said and heard and expierence from logging in each day.


The fact that every faction's missions can be solo farmed in bombers except Gallente due to permajamming Caldari rats, is a long-standing gripe. I am not sure how to fix this other than removing the jams and making missions equally farmable for everyone. Perhaps they could be changed somehow to make bombers less viable. Add a few sentries perhaps? Enough to pop a bomber but not to trouble a properly tanked ship overmuch?

Oh and, war targets should not be able to dock in highsec militia stations, and using a drone+neutral logi to pull faction navy is an exploit which needs addressing. Agree with Moglarr, Thanatos et al that we don't need to incentivize bored highsec mercs hopping militias and vaping newbies in highsec. These people do not even participate in militia ops; it's literally just dedicated highsec pvp'ers and alts using exploits to farm kills.
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