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T2 Hybrid ammunition
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ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#21 - 2015-08-20 16:03:01 UTC
I'll just throw this in here:

if the ship you are using has a tracking bonus (e.g. Tristan, Enyo, Catalyst) then I would recommend Void as a default ammo. It has more range than Anti-matter, hits harder, and even though it cuts tacking by 25% you still come out ahead due to the ship's bonuses.

This is doubly so for small blasters (provided you manually pilot). For Medium and Large blasters.... stick with Anti-matter.

How did you Veterans start?
Cara Forelli
State War Academy
Caldari State
#22 - 2015-08-20 17:16:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Cara Forelli
Fenris Mars wrote:
Well my thinking on having Hams would be to make it a surprise. Everyone says this is how it should be fit, etc. cookie cutter, and people can prepare for you.

HAMs on what? Most ships only have hardpoints for turrets OR missiles, so you can't fit HAMs to everything. And generally mixing blasters and HAMs would be a bad idea, as you want to take advantage of whatever weapon system your ship is bonused for.

It's true that cookie cutter fits are predictable and it is a good idea to think outside the box when fitting your ship. However, you should be thinking of specific ways to abuse what your ship is already good at and go in with a well defined plan ("engagement profile").

For instance, Breachers have a very good active tank for a frigate. I once decided to drop a rocket launcher for a neut (capacitor drainer) and go hunt ships which used cap-intensive weapons. Even though my DPS was very subpar without the third rocket, I was able to rely on my strong tank to hold until I had completely neuted out my target, making them unable to run their own tank or use their weapons. I managed to kill a very expensive Daredevil this way, who was very surprised that my ship had a neut.

So yes, surprising your opponent is good. But you need to surprise them in a way that actually benefits you (usually by exploiting your ship's bonuses or natural attributes like speed/agility etc.) I could fit civilian blasters to an incursus. It would certainly be surprising. No one would expect it. But it would not help me win any fights. Big smile

Want to talk? Join my channel in game: House Forelli

Titan's Lament
Valkin Mordirc
#23 - 2015-08-20 21:03:37 UTC
Your mostly correct, Void should only be used if you have hard tackle, or a significant tracking bonus. Ships like the Vindicator excel with Void.


Also Thorium is a good mid range ammo I would suggest using it as it provides good range and decent damage.
#DeleteTheWeak
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#24 - 2015-08-20 21:42:56 UTC
I use Void + web on my blaster Harpy. Been sitting in this ship for about three years now.

I also use Null when webbed and can't get close.
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#25 - 2015-08-20 23:39:47 UTC
The other uses for void are stationary targets (miner ganking and POS bashing) and larger ships than yourself.

The key is that ammunition types are tools. A circular saw is a very powerful and useful tool, but if I want to open a jam jar, it's not the tool for the job.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#26 - 2015-08-21 01:41:20 UTC
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
A circular saw is a very powerful and useful tool, but if I want to open a jam jar, it's not the tool for the job.

Is it wrong then that a rubber mallet migrated from my toolbox into my kitchen? Oops

There's nothing stopping a pilot from experimenting, and in fact I highly recommend it. It is a great way to figure out what works and doesn't. Some things that work for one pilot may not work for any other, same for situational stuff.

The test server, Singularity (SiSi) is also a great place to experiment with no consequences. Everything there costs 100 ISK, so you can earn ISK there by self-destructing, or even more by insuring first and self-destructing. Don't try this on the live server, Tranquility (TQ) though!

However, if you are lost for where to start, it doesn't hurt to look around or ask others for what works for them.
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#27 - 2015-08-21 07:25:23 UTC
Fenris Mars wrote:
Well my thinking on having Hams would be to make it a surprise. Everyone says this is how it should be fit, etc. cookie cutter, and people can prepare for you.


What advantage does that "surprise" give you? No decent Eve player is going to be overwhelmed by the "surprise" factor of an unusual fit - unless that fit makes a ship unexpectedly stronger in some other important way.

The amount of surprise you get from having two HAM launchers on a blaster ship is probably not going to win many fights for you.

For example, some ships have the flexibility to fit either shield or armor tank. I might fit a shield buffer tank and have a slightly faster ship, or I can go with an armor buffer tank and have a slower, stronger ship. If my opponent is expecting to be able to stay out of my range, and the shield buffer setup is fast enough to catch him, then the surprise gives me an advantage.

Or I might armor tank a traditional shield tanked ship in order to use my abundant midslots for more electronic warfare options. If the extra electronic warfare options allow me to dictate the terms of the fight, then that is a good form of surprise.

Most fitting decisions are fairly straightforward. The ships are designed to be fitted and flown a certain way. Every fitting decision is a trade-off. Learn to fit a ship according to its designed strengths, before you start trying to get outside the box and come up with the newest "armor-tanked, lots of electronic warfare, Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher Raven." Once you understand the standard, then you can come up with departures from the baseline.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Johnny Riko
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2015-08-21 11:22:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Johnny Riko
FT Diomedes wrote:
Fenris Mars wrote:
Well my thinking on having Hams would be to make it a surprise. Everyone says this is how it should be fit, etc. cookie cutter, and people can prepare for you.


What advantage does that "surprise" give you? No decent Eve player is going to be overwhelmed by the "surprise" factor of an unusual fit - unless that fit makes a ship unexpectedly stronger in some other important way.

The amount of surprise you get from having two HAM launchers on a blaster ship is probably not going to win many fights for you.

For example, some ships have the flexibility to fit either shield or armor tank. I might fit a shield buffer tank and have a slightly faster ship, or I can go with an armor buffer tank and have a slower, stronger ship. If my opponent is expecting to be able to stay out of my range, and the shield buffer setup is fast enough to catch him, then the surprise gives me an advantage.

Or I might armor tank a traditional shield tanked ship in order to use my abundant midslots for more electronic warfare options. If the extra electronic warfare options allow me to dictate the terms of the fight, then that is a good form of surprise.

Most fitting decisions are fairly straightforward. The ships are designed to be fitted and flown a certain way. Every fitting decision is a trade-off. Learn to fit a ship according to its designed strengths, before you start trying to get outside the box and come up with the newest "armor-tanked, lots of electronic warfare, Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher Raven." Once you understand the standard, then you can come up with departures from the baseline.


I really think the main point to drive home is that it isn't really a good idea to try and have a jack-of-all-trades type ship which can do many things averagely, but nothing excellently. For example if you pick a ship that is good for MWD - Kiting, and fit it in a way to do that to its absolute best, you will be able to engage targets that are susceptible to a MWD - kite ship much more effectively, and hopefully able to disengage against ships that are strong against you, such as a MWD Scram fit. If however someone chooses to fly a middle of the road ship, they will find they struggle to effectively engage anything.

edit:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0vcAdB68wBYYVlEVjAycXBWYlE/view
That's a good guide for any new player to read.

I wanna join up. I think I got what it takes to be a Citizen.
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#29 - 2015-09-03 05:03:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Hasikan Miallok
With regard to HAMs on a Hybrid ship - basically in PvP you need to "know when to holdup, know when to foldup, know when to run".

Fit your ship for particular targets and avoid encounters with anything else. Situational Awareness and Target Selection are prime.

On the other hand, if your talking about surviving being ganked fit your ship to run. One common bit of advice for new industrial pilots is "never fit a weapon as you might be tempted to use it and miss your chance to get away".
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