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Incursions as PvP:

First post
Author
Salvos Rhoska
#81 - 2015-08-20 23:44:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
I really cant see any rational reason for HS Incursions to operate under CONCORD intervention, and hence prevent aggressing of some of the most irresponsibly bling fleets in the entire universe, whom farm day-in-day-out with utter impunity, at the highest isk/hr activity possible in HS.

I know its important to your profits, but its wrong.
You should feel bad, and it should be stopped.

Remove CONCORD intervention in HS systems.
Its that simple and long overdue.

This is HS exploitation at its worst.
You know it, and I know it.
We will see if CCP also knows it.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#82 - 2015-08-21 00:15:21 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Kinete Jenius wrote:

Well a good chunk of my income from my fleet has gone to PVP and I'm far from the only incursion runner that does so.


So?

Spend your profit on space toilet paper for all Im concerned.

The point is your fleet earns it in HS Incursion systems with no applicable player intervention, in bling ships, thanks to CONCORD.


Player can intervene against incursion fleet. That is what you are missing. As long as you miss that point, all what you say is complete BS and worthless to read.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#83 - 2015-08-21 00:18:28 UTC
Congrats on the like farming I guess. Is that supposed to mean something?

Beyond that this last post just seems to be some dismissive rage with the ever popular tag line "You only disagree because you run incursions yourself."

Again completely disregarding the fact that no aggression is even prevented, only responded to, thus fully allowing aggression of any incursion fleet. Further stating that the targets, whose locations are advertized, are so egregiously overblinged they must be addressed. But you won't actually do it.

This is an either/or proposition. Either concord prevents aggression in HS or those fleets are able to be aggressed. Either the fits are so expensive that the game will not tolerate them and they die regularly, or they aren't and they are left alone because they act in concert with other ships to increase their safety, making those fits a viable risk. Either way the issue is self resolving.

There is no reason for concord intervention to be lost in incursions besides trying to mask an effective request for their removal as something else as no sane person will run the least safe incursion type.
Salvos Rhoska
#84 - 2015-08-21 01:12:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Frostys Virpio wrote:
That is what you are missing.

CONCORD.

They don't miss.

Tyberius Franklin wrote:
blah.

You are running HS most profitable activity, in HS most bling ships, with no player intervention, under CONCORD protection, in a mechanic that otherwise disables the system.

I understand your profits are important, but try to remember there is a larger game at stake here.
Its against all of EVE ethics, what you are doing.

Disable CONCORD in HS Incursions.

Or are you saying you dont have the balls to compete?
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#85 - 2015-08-21 01:21:24 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Or are you saying you dont have the balls to compete?
I'm guessing you have no real defense for the idea if you're just resorting to schoolyard provocations. Yes it's profitable, and probably should be less so, but that still leaves no concord a terrible idea for a number of reasons including the sudden trapping of people who want nothing to do with the incursion, people trying to transit through and the fact that risk for isk it becomes the worst activity in the game.

It really is a singularly terrible idea for an issue you are vastly overstating.
Salvos Rhoska
#86 - 2015-08-21 01:28:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
It really is a singularly terrible idea for an issue you are vastly overstating.


Whats terrible about it.

Nobody stays in an Incursion system.
The modifiers make all activity pointless, except for bling CONCORD immune Incursion fleets.

As to transit, well, too bad.
Funny you would resort to blaming a poor itinerant transitor who can see in on the map, as an excuse for your far larger fleets and bling ships to farm with complete immunity and safety.

Salvos Rhoska wrote:
I really cant see any rational reason for HS Incursions to operate under CONCORD intervention, and hence prevent aggressing of some of the most irresponsibly bling fleets in the entire universe, whom farm day-in-day-out with utter impunity, at the highest isk/hr activity possible in HS.


Makes perfect sense to me.

And there is another 50 page thread driving exactly towards this same point btw.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#87 - 2015-08-21 01:32:41 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
It really is a singularly terrible idea for an issue you are vastly overstating.


Whats terrible about it.

Salvos Rhoska wrote:
I really cant see any rational reason for HS Incursions to operate under CONCORD intervention, and hence prevent aggressing of some of the most irresponsibly bling fleets in the entire universe, whom farm day-in-day-out with utter impunity, at the highest isk/hr activity possible in HS.


Makes perfect sense to me.

And there is another 50 page thread driving exactly towards this same point btw.

Already stated some of the reasons it was terrible. You responded to none of it. You just restated the idea without retort. I get that it makes sense to you, cause you've made up your mind that CCP should step in and solve the issue of providing risk for you.
Salvos Rhoska
#88 - 2015-08-21 01:34:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
You responded to none of it.


Read the thread.

Not only did I start it, I also have responded to everything in it.

If thats not enough for you, check here:
CCP - End Highsec Incursions
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=421040&find=unread

You are going to lose this.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#89 - 2015-08-21 01:53:55 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
You responded to none of it.


Read the thread.

Not only did I start it, I also have responded to everything in it.

If thats not enough for you, check here:
CCP - End Highsec Incursions
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=421040&find=unread

You are going to lose this.

Oh I am reading and quoting your posts to avoid the issue of further post-response edits like the one above.

But to respond to it as it now stands:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Nobody stays in an Incursion system.
The modifiers make all activity pointless, except for bling CONCORD immune Incursion fleets.

As to transit, well, too bad.
Funny you would resort to blaming a poor itinerant transitor who can see in on the map, as an excuse for your far larger fleets and bling ships to farm with complete immunity and safety.
So your solution of no one but the incursion runners being there is to make it so no one wants to be there including the incursion runners? Great plan. Way to turn a feature into a hole in the ground.

And yeah, I will bring up haulers and locals because some of us have the capacity to look beyond our frothing rage about what someone else is doing and see the fallout probably isn't worth the non-existant gains. This is very much an idea based not on a balanced solution but the desire to retaliate against a group that has somehow slighted you by working together to not be vulnerable.

Honestly the better solution would be to just remove them as it doesn't make swaths of space effectively unusable for no reason.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#90 - 2015-08-21 01:55:39 UTC
Also yes, there is another thead on the subject, your point?
Salvos Rhoska
#91 - 2015-08-21 02:14:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Trying to hold the rest of the systems occupants hostage against your own privilege, wont work.

First of all, as I said, everyone will leave the system in HS, as there is no PvE or otherwise activity they can pursue without a negative modifier in an Incursion system. Or they can station spin. In anycase, the system is completely profitless and pointless except for you in your CONCORD protected superbling ships earning HS highest profits on the residents own goddam lawn.

Second of all, its a weak excuse to use that to try and defend the privilege of a fleet of multibillion ships operate in HS with impunity, farming HS most lucrative activity at no risk.

Third, as I said, if you are so tough, what do you have to be afraid of from a fleet coming to aggress you, and blowing you up, to take the Incursion for themselves.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#92 - 2015-08-21 02:26:18 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Trying to hold the rest of the systems occupants hostage against your own privilege, wont work.

First of all, as I said, everyone will leave the system in HS, as there is no PvE or otherwise activity they can pursue without a negative modifier in an Incursion system.

Second of all, its a weak excuse to use that to try and defend the privilege of a fleet of multibillion ships operate in HS with impunity, farming HS most lucrative activity at no risk.

Third, as I said, if you are so tough, what do you have to be afraid of from a fleet coming to aggress you, and blowing you up, to take the Incursion for themselves.

It's everyone privilege to use the system with it's current security features, you are the one trying to deny that for your personal interests, not me. Eve the act of fleeing you refer to is hampered by creating new engagement rules with concord removal.

And again, those ship do not operate by any special rules, you are free to engage them as you see fit with the same restrictions as any other ship in highsec. Being a loot pinata has never been cause for a rule change. That's a non-argument unless you suddenly want any system with a bowhead, overloaded freighter or blinged mission ship to lose concord protection.

Lastly, I'm not here to help you get your jollies. And I'm not going to support bad mechanics to help you do what you can already do yourself. I never claimed to be "tough" because being tough at internet pixel space ships isn't exactly an aspiration of mine.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#93 - 2015-08-21 02:31:10 UTC
Regarding your edit:

Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Or they can station spin. In anycase, the system is completely profitless and pointless except for you in your CONCORD protected superbling ships earning HS highest profits on the residents own goddam lawn.


If this is actually part of the complaint the solution is clear: Remove the penalties incursions currently have from all locations except the incursion deadspace pockets. Now everyone has full use of the system regardless of bling level, which they did already since the sites and some of the fleets that run them don't require bling anyways.
Salvos Rhoska
#94 - 2015-08-21 02:31:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
I never claimed to be "tough" because being tough at internet pixel space ships isn't exactly an aspiration of mine.


Indeed.

Instead farming HS profits in HS security in superbling ships, is.

Barring CCP coming to their senses, I cant wait till CODE or some other HS farming control entity finally finds a way to start muscling in on you.

Its not like you are hard to find.
Salvos Rhoska
#95 - 2015-08-21 02:33:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Remove the penalties incursions currently have from all locations except the incursion deadspace pockets.


And again holding the system itself as hostage or the solution, whereas Incursion HS mechanics in terms of safety and profit are the issue at hand.

Nice try.
Miss.

I can play this game too, though, if you like.

How about removing Incursions from HS altogether?

That solves the problem completely.
Nothings stopping you from doing them elsewhere.
Go ahead. Try.
Kinete Jenius
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#96 - 2015-08-21 02:39:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Kinete Jenius
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
So CONCORD exists to defend super shiny HS Incursion fleets while they farm day-in-day-out?

Ok. Guess it must be so, cos you say it so.

I'm going to assume you're not trolling or an idiot. Because right now those really are the only two options for such a stupid statement

Without concord the only thing that would stop people from ganking newbies all day long would be the lack of newbies joining the game. CCP saw the stupidity of the camps back in the early days of testing. That's why concord was introduced. Eve was absolutely no fun without the concept of highsec and concord.


Quote:
Many do. Is why despite cost changes, pvp still can be expensive and as such, out of reach for many players who don't like farming/funding alts. Cannot get into incursions to make the money required to fly incursions. Mostly the people I know use the isk for Plex. Two plex a month they farm. More if more pvp and support toons. If there was no plex, the farmers in incursions would be considerably less... or pvp would be more bling.
Yes and I remember not long ago when people were blaming plex prices and prices in general on boxers while demanding the banning of isboxer and such. So here we are 9 months post repeater ban and plex prices along with other prices continued climbing regardless. The reality is Nullsec and WH alliances laugh at the piddly isk that incursion runners make.

If you want to run incursions all you need is a t1 battleship with t2 tank skills. Meta 4 guns work and most communities accept them. Only a handful of communities are actually maximizing their incursion fleets (I can think of 2). The vast majority of incursion communities don't even live up to the stereotype that some are trying to push here.

Like I said earlier my entire VG fleet including booster costs under 6b to replace.

Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Kinete Jenius wrote:

Well a good chunk of my income from my fleet has gone to PVP and I'm far from the only incursion runner that does so.


So?

Spend your profit on space toilet paper for all Im concerned.

The point is your fleet earns it in HS Incursion systems with no applicable player intervention, in bling ships, thanks to CONCORD.

I would earn slightly less per hour while a whole lot more AFK if I took up some offers to join certain groups in null. If I went to WHs I could earn over double an hour what I'm earning now. Why don't I? Many reasons including some real life related ones.

Salvos Rhoska wrote:
I really cant see any rational reason for HS Incursions to operate under CONCORD intervention, and hence prevent aggressing of some of the most irresponsibly bling fleets in the entire universe, whom farm day-in-day-out with utter impunity, at the highest isk/hr activity possible in HS.

I know its important to your profits, but its wrong.
You should feel bad, and it should be stopped.

Remove CONCORD intervention in HS systems.
Its that simple and long overdue.

This is HS exploitation at its worst.
You know it, and I know it.
We will see if CCP also knows it.

I can think of several including the fact that concord cannot work the way you're asking without major work on the programming side of things. You want CCP to invest massive amount of work on something because you're too lazy to do the work yourself. You're the ultimate cancer in eve.

You could easily introduce PVP to incursions if you wanted but that takes effort. Instead you demand that CCP take developer hours and put into a complicated and ultimately stupid plan to disable concord selectively.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#97 - 2015-08-21 02:41:06 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
I never claimed to be "tough" because being tough at internet pixel space ships isn't exactly an aspiration of mine.


Indeed.

Instead farming HS profits in HS security in superbling ships, is.

Barring CCP coming to their senses, I cant wait till CODE or some other HS farming control entity finally finds a way to start muscling in on you.

Its not like you are hard to find.
If they do the response will be the same as it always is, adapt. I still mine AFK despite CODE. they only are as capable of changing your behavior as you let them be.

Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Remove the penalties incursions currently have from all locations except the incursion deadspace pockets.


And again holding the system itself as hostage or the solution, whereas Incursion HS mechanics in terms of safety and profit are the issue at hand.

Nice try.
Miss.

I can play this game too, though, if you like.

How about removing Incursions from HS altogether?

That solves the problem completely.
Nothings stopping you from doing them elsewhere.
Go ahead. Try.
Also, what's up with the "You can't use 3rd parties as an excuse" line when you have been doing that for most of the thread? When Incursions runners show up their the devil for being there and lowering bounties, which isn't even actually them doing it, but it's ok to turn it into a complete hole and make it even worse just to get at those shiny ships that will stop being there the moment such a change were to happen... what?

How can you be this intellectually dishonest?
Salvos Rhoska
#98 - 2015-08-21 02:41:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Kinete Jenius wrote:

I'm going to assume you're not trolling or an idiot


Stopped reading right there.

If you want people to actually read your effort in posting, it might be a good idea not to insult them right at the start.

Or you are an idiot, or a troll.

See how I did that? Worked.
Kinete Jenius
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#99 - 2015-08-21 02:49:45 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Kinete Jenius wrote:

I'm going to assume you're not trolling or an idiot


Stopped reading right there.

If you want people to actually read your effort in posting, it might be a good idea not to insult them right at the start.

Or you are an idiot, or a troll.

See how I did that? Worked.

Thanks for confirming that you're a troll.



The rest of you are wasting your time. THis individual knows that pvp is introduced often against incursion runners. He knows that he could easily introduce pvp at anytime for a low cost. He's only interested in getting incursions nerfed and will create topics in the attempt to create the appearance of others agreeing. By responding to his posts you're only helping his propaganda attempts.
Salvos Rhoska
#100 - 2015-08-21 02:52:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Tyberius Franklin wrote:


How can you be this intellectually dishonest?

So you HS afK mine, and run HS Incursions at no risk.

Im beginning to see the picture here.

Love how you completely skipped moving Incursions out of HS.

Hows that for intellectual dishonesty.

Kinete Jenius wrote:

Thanks for confirming that you're a troll.


You must have not read my previous post.
Pretty clear indicator of a troll, if you ask me.

Speaking of which, good attempt to run this thread into a lock.
Maybe even successful, but the other 50 page thread still stands.