EVE General Discussion

Most of the PvE content is rather bad in EVE so people would rather get something easyly farmable than anythign else. Nobody really want to put too much effort in the grinding part of the game but it's kind of necessary in a game where losses are supposed to matter. Either you always win (rare as hell), grind back what you lose or quit...

Should've known it was the labour unions' fault all along. Darn highsec NPCs.

vOv

They found out they could contract it out to tireless grinder...

And that is right on the money for the extrapolation of it. With logi, the ewar ships have all the tank they need. The sansha and pvpers both apply damage, it doesnt matter. Difference is that when sansha are focused on the incursion runners, the incursion runners have no logistics because of the pvp fleet. The incursion fleet has nothing to break the logistics of said pvp fleet when things flip.



This thread, like all threadnaughts if falling apart with piles of discussions that address things generally to focus on one problem but not what it is affected. I recommend breaking it down, as I will as well.


What has the Problem?
:Incursions

What is an incursion?
:PvE targeted towards higher SP players

What is the problem?
:Risk vs reward imbalance

Symptoms?
:High rate of inflation on market, elitism driving out PvE players and being replaced by farming alts. Easily recognized by extremely high value ships and fittings

Solution?
:Rebalance risk vs reward.

Solution analysis?
1. Increase PVP risk in highsec
-this estranges the original target market.

2. Move out of high security
-this estranges the original target market

3. Decrease reward
- It just takes longer, people will still fly the shinies to max earnings unless is below l4 earnings

4. Increase risk from NPC
+ The missions will take longer resulting in lower rate of earning


1 and 2 is equal to just removing incursions all together. 3, people will still whine about the mega shinies unless reward is less than level 4 on a per time basis, in which case farmers won't run and low number of PvEers because the rewards suck for the risk.

The whole concept and debate that "Eve is a PVP game" thinking the logic that pve shouldn't exist is pretty... stupid. PvE players = money for eve. Money means CCP can pay the bills. PvE players also can lead to new PvP players if they like the game. In addition, plenty of ways for PvE to occur in PvP space. But with eve, null and low pve needs to be under the radar. a Pve-er is operating under the radar. half an hour to an hour in some lowsec site with low maneuvering battleships is not under the radar. It is a no win scenario for PvE desiring players.

4. Increased risk from NPC if done right in a non scripted manner means that the PvE gaming community have a more enjoyable experience. If current earnings were balances to say a 5-10% ship loss ratio on a mission when using T1 hulls and T2 fits, then it would still be above missions for an earning rate. In addition, can separate out the fleets by making the larger combat sites more profitable for the larger and higher SP people.

Conclusion?

All four of the very basically summarized points rectify a very clear problem. Only the one maintains the purpose of an incursion which means it also makes the most sense from a business standpoint. Making it pvp doesnt benefit anybody. PvE or PvP. Ask a PvEer the last time they ran a level 5, or if they even know there are L5 missions. Reducing rewards keeps a person exact same place. Is stil earning with no risk. Ergo, up the risk. Makes it a fun and rewarding experience for the PvE community, the PvPers won't care because it is no longer a farm.


Edit: And look at oneself. Why do people farm incursions?
Get to know incursion runners. Many incursion runners are doing so to farm plex and fund their PvP ships. PvP doesn't exist without PvE highsec to buy moon goo, minerals and officer mods.

Yes, in HS, for sure.

CONCORD covers your **** and secures your bling.

Thats exactly my point.

To change HS Incursion systems, which anways are peculiar, remove CONCORD intervention on player action.

Lets see how your shiney fleets holdl up to that.
If not, go do em somewhere else (oh wait, everywhere else involves no CONCORD!)

GL HF!

Concord exists for a reason. Without concord there is no eve as there will be no new players able to play and people will be unable to afford their pvp ships without being in a major alliance.

You people might want to spend a little time researching why CCP has setup stuff they way they have. 99% of the time it's because there was a bigger problem that needed solved.

Besides it's not up to CCP to hand you free kills. HTFU and use your brain and apply a little effort and you too can gank incursion runners.

So exactly as I said. You have an issue with operating withing the rules and want them changed. HS/LS/NS/WH, doesn't matter. You are without exception stating that others working within the rules urks you and that the rules need changed because only then can you do something about it.

Which is all a big lie because you could get some pilots together, like they do, ship up, like they did ans shoot things, like they are, to change that. You just aren't willing. You NEED someone to enable you. You NEED the current rules changed. You NEED help providing the risk you speak so proudly of.

Obviously if the rules change people will adapt, no doubt of that, but I'm lost as to how you can cheer about your merits and disparage others when the core issue is a lack of will step up and pop some blinged BSs.

Concord doesn't even protect, they only retaliate in predictable fashion. If the Incursion runners can work around NPC predictability can't you do the same?

So CONCORD exists to defend super shiny HS Incursion fleets while they farm day-in-day-out?

Ok. Guess it must be so, cos you say it so.

They exist to retaliate against aggression in HS against all targets, including blinged BSs, day in and day out. You don't have to take my word though, go try it. Engage a target without a duel, war or flag and see what happens. It doesn't even have to be blinged either!

Where is that stated?

Not finding it here where the feature was introduced in detail.