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T2 Hybrid ammunition

Author
Johnny Riko
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2015-08-19 18:42:56 UTC
o7

I've recently trained into T2 small hybrid turrets, and am a bit confused about the T2 ammo.
Blasters
Null: Long range, useful for any ships trying to kite you.
Void: Only useful against ships larger than yourself?

Railguns
Spike: Very long range ammunition, allowing you to effectively snipe ships.
Javelin: Only useful against ships smaller than yours orbiting very close?

Is this analysis correct, or am I missing some roles for these ammo? For close range fighting am I best sticking to CN Antimatter?

I wanna join up. I think I got what it takes to be a Citizen.

Tyrendian Biohazard
The Bastards
Sedition.
#2 - 2015-08-19 19:20:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyrendian Biohazard
Mostly, but, and this is my personal opinion, antimatter is what is commonly used for the base ammo in both groups.. Decent range, good damage, and doesn't have any of the tracking penalties.

Also, I try not to use Spike unless its extremely long range. With my fits, thorium is usually enough to hit what I need and does better damage without losing tracking as well. It is a personal preference. Null doesn't reach very far, and usually only good within scram range. Beyond that, you better hope you can run them down.

Of course there is always changing circumstances. Void if you happen to be running something with dual web, etc.

Twitch streamer and EVE NT tournament broadcaster.

Johnny Riko
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2015-08-19 20:18:11 UTC
Tyrendian Biohazard wrote:
Mostly, but, and this is my personal opinion, antimatter is what is commonly used for the base ammo in both groups.. Decent range, good damage, and doesn't have any of the tracking penalties.

Also, I try not to use Spike unless its extremely long range. With my fits, thorium is usually enough to hit what I need and does better damage without losing tracking as well. It is a personal preference. Null doesn't reach very far, and usually only good within scram range. Beyond that, you better hope you can run them down.

Of course there is always changing circumstances. Void if you happen to be running something with dual web, etc.


Antimatter has good range? The only ammo type that has worse is Javelin, which has better tracking and dps to make up for it.

I wanna join up. I think I got what it takes to be a Citizen.

voetius
Grundrisse
#4 - 2015-08-19 20:50:27 UTC
Johnny Riko wrote:
o7

I've recently trained into T2 small hybrid turrets, and am a bit confused about the T2 ammo.
Blasters
Null: Long range, useful for any ships trying to kite you.
Void: Only useful against ships larger than yourself?

Railguns
Spike: Very long range ammunition, allowing you to effectively snipe ships.
Javelin: Only useful against ships smaller than yours orbiting very close?

Is this analysis correct, or am I missing some roles for these ammo? For close range fighting am I best sticking to CN Antimatter?


I've not used Javelin so can't speak of that but the other descriptions seem about right. Personally, with T2 Small hybrids I like rails and Spike S.

Navy Thorium is a good compromise with medium and large rails but I wouldn't bother with small and would just carry Spike and Navy Anti. However, I am pretty lazy so that may not be the optimal choice. On a small rail platform running the SoE arc e.g. I usually carry some shadow serp / Guardian / Dread Guristas Lead or Iron S as well for super long range as it is crazy cheap, though don't tend to use it that much :)
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#5 - 2015-08-19 20:50:59 UTC
I can only speak for blasters but I carry void, fed navy antimatter and null.
For PvP always use fed navy charges when not using t2 ammunition.

I generally have fed navy antimatter loaded and will switch from there depending upon what I'm going to shoot.

Void can be used on anything if you can slow it down enough,
Fednavy antimatter for when you can't
Null for when you need the range.
Fenris Mars
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2015-08-19 23:43:49 UTC
My first day here in game, but thought I would ask about Hybrid ammo selection too. Does one system hit harder or track better than the other? IE: Rail Ammo selection over Blasters

Thanks!
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#7 - 2015-08-20 00:22:49 UTC
Fenris Mars wrote:
My first day here in game, but thought I would ask about Hybrid ammo selection too. Does one system hit harder or track better than the other? IE: Rail Ammo selection over Blasters

Thanks!

I'm not trying to make fun of you but help direct you by answering the question I think you should ask instead of did ask.

So with pretty much all weapons there is a close range version and a long range version. Short range is higher dps. So with hybrids blasters are your up close brawling weapon with high tracking but **** range. Rail guns are your long range snipping/ kitting weapons. Projectiles have autocannons for close range and artillery for long range. Lazors have beams for long and pulse for short. Missiles are long rockets are short or heavies and HAMs or cruise and torps.

This flash tutorial will teach you the basics and Eve Uni has many pages on it for more in depth look at tracking and gunnery in eve.

Want to talk? Join Cara's channel in game: House Forelli

Fenris Mars
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2015-08-20 00:32:55 UTC
ergherhdfgh wrote:
Fenris Mars wrote:
My first day here in game, but thought I would ask about Hybrid ammo selection too. Does one system hit harder or track better than the other? IE: Rail Ammo selection over Blasters

Thanks!

I'm not trying to make fun of you but help direct you by answering the question I think you should ask instead of did ask.

So with pretty much all weapons there is a close range version and a long range version. Short range is higher dps. So with hybrids blasters are your up close brawling weapon with high tracking but **** range. Rail guns are your long range snipping/ kitting weapons. Projectiles have autocannons for close range and artillery for long range. Lazors have beams for long and pulse for short. Missiles are long rockets are short or heavies and HAMs or cruise and torps.

This flash tutorial will teach you the basics and Eve Uni has many pages on it for more in depth look at tracking and gunnery in eve.

Thanks, this gives me a better understanding. So would it make sense to combine short range blasters with HAMs on a ship?
Johnny Riko
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2015-08-20 01:10:37 UTC
Fenris Mars wrote:
ergherhdfgh wrote:
Fenris Mars wrote:
My first day here in game, but thought I would ask about Hybrid ammo selection too. Does one system hit harder or track better than the other? IE: Rail Ammo selection over Blasters

Thanks!

I'm not trying to make fun of you but help direct you by answering the question I think you should ask instead of did ask.

So with pretty much all weapons there is a close range version and a long range version. Short range is higher dps. So with hybrids blasters are your up close brawling weapon with high tracking but **** range. Rail guns are your long range snipping/ kitting weapons. Projectiles have autocannons for close range and artillery for long range. Lazors have beams for long and pulse for short. Missiles are long rockets are short or heavies and HAMs or cruise and torps.

This flash tutorial will teach you the basics and Eve Uni has many pages on it for more in depth look at tracking and gunnery in eve.

Thanks, this gives me a better understanding. So would it make sense to combine short range blasters with HAMs on a ship?


I'm fairly new to the game too, so I may not be totally correct, but I think it is best to always have your turrets at the same range.

The reason for this is that you want to have a defined engagement range for your ship. Versatility is good to an extent, but it isn't good if you sacrifice performance to achieve it. For example if you had a neutron blaster, a 75mm rail gun and a 150mm railgun on the same ship, you would have 1 turret that is good at very close range, one which is a middle-long and one which is a long range one. This means that at any given range you only have 1 turret that is effective. Instead you might decide that you're going to have an engagement range of just inside warp scrambler range, so you might put 3 125mm rail guns on them. You can then carry three types of ammo like people have mentioned, Javelin for extremely close range, Spike for much more distance, and Caldari navy antimatter as your primary middle range ammo.

So does anyone have any opinion on Javelin ammo? What situations does it outperform CN antimatter?

I wanna join up. I think I got what it takes to be a Citizen.

Yang Aurilen
State War Academy
Caldari State
#10 - 2015-08-20 01:15:58 UTC
Johnny Riko wrote:
Fenris Mars wrote:
ergherhdfgh wrote:
Fenris Mars wrote:
My first day here in game, but thought I would ask about Hybrid ammo selection too. Does one system hit harder or track better than the other? IE: Rail Ammo selection over Blasters

Thanks!

I'm not trying to make fun of you but help direct you by answering the question I think you should ask instead of did ask.

So with pretty much all weapons there is a close range version and a long range version. Short range is higher dps. So with hybrids blasters are your up close brawling weapon with high tracking but **** range. Rail guns are your long range snipping/ kitting weapons. Projectiles have autocannons for close range and artillery for long range. Lazors have beams for long and pulse for short. Missiles are long rockets are short or heavies and HAMs or cruise and torps.

This flash tutorial will teach you the basics and Eve Uni has many pages on it for more in depth look at tracking and gunnery in eve.

Thanks, this gives me a better understanding. So would it make sense to combine short range blasters with HAMs on a ship?


I'm fairly new to the game too, so I may not be totally correct, but I think it is best to always have your turrets at the same range.

The reason for this is that you want to have a defined engagement range for your ship. Versatility is good to an extent, but it isn't good if you sacrifice performance to achieve it. For example if you had a neutron blaster, a 75mm rail gun and a 150mm railgun on the same ship, you would have 1 turret that is good at very close range, one which is a middle-long and one which is a long range one. This means that at any given range you only have 1 turret that is effective. Instead you might decide that you're going to have an engagement range of just inside warp scrambler range, so you might put 3 125mm rail guns on them. You can then carry three types of ammo like people have mentioned, Javelin for extremely close range, Spike for much more distance, and Caldari navy antimatter as your primary middle range ammo.

So does anyone have any opinion on Javelin ammo? What situations does it outperform CN antimatter?


When it has more than one webs. Scrammed too to shut off mwd so it basically crawls to a halt.

Post with your NPC alt main and not your main main alt!

ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#11 - 2015-08-20 03:08:59 UTC
Fenris Mars wrote:

Thanks, this gives me a better understanding. So would it make sense to combine short range blasters with HAMs on a ship?

In general you don't want to mix weapon systems but you also don't want to ignore potential extra dps. That may sound confusing so I'll have to use examples.

Most ships are fairly specialized in that they have one main weapon type. Some are stricter than others but you might have hybrid high slots for your guns for example. On a ship like that you will want all the same gun. Not just all rail guns or all blasters I mean all the exact same gun so if you are using Light Ion Blaster II's you want all of your turrets to be "Light Ion Blaster IIs" you don't want to mix in any lower meta versions or anything.

However in the above situation if your ship has a drone bay you don't want to ignore that and just not use the drone. But you don't want to waste any rig or module slots on drone damage mods if the ship is primarily a turret platform. You want to focus on your turrets as your main dps.

That is more straightforward, there are some minmatar ships where it is not so cut and clear. There are some ships that are turret focused but have one or two launcher slots. In those cases you will have to make judgement calls. Sometimes you will fill those with launchers and if you do then yes stick to similar range weapons. Other times you might be better off with a utility high slot item.

You will learn more as you go and this will make more sense later but yes for now rockets with blasters and missiles with rails or as you get into bigger ships torpedoes with blasters and cruise missiles with rails.

One example is that my most used ship is the Dominix which is a Drone boat. I have 6 high slots and 6 turret hardpoints so it can fit 6 turrets. The most that I fit on that ship are 5 and many of my fits have 4 or less. My drones do most of my dps and my ship is set up accordingly. My turret dps is so low as compared to my drone dps that in most cases I'm better off using a high slot or two for other things like extending my drone's engagement range or for a remote armor repper or many PvPers use neuts or vamps. However if I am planning on using sentry drones then I fit long range turrets so I stick with the same range and focus all of my dps on one target at a time.

Want to talk? Join Cara's channel in game: House Forelli

Fenris Mars
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#12 - 2015-08-20 03:34:59 UTC
Well my thinking on having Hams would be to make it a surprise. Everyone says this is how it should be fit, etc. cookie cutter, and people can prepare for you.
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#13 - 2015-08-20 03:38:24 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
I can only speak for blasters but I carry void, fed navy antimatter and null.
For PvP always use fed navy charges when not using t2 ammunition.

I generally have fed navy antimatter loaded and will switch from there depending upon what I'm going to shoot.

Void can be used on anything if you can slow it down enough,
Fednavy antimatter for when you can't
Null for when you need the range.



I'm the same, except I usually have T2 ammo preloaded.

Void hits like a freight train, good when you need to end a fight before the opponent can call in reinforcements.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com

Yang Aurilen
State War Academy
Caldari State
#14 - 2015-08-20 03:47:20 UTC
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
I can only speak for blasters but I carry void, fed navy antimatter and null.
For PvP always use fed navy charges when not using t2 ammunition.

I generally have fed navy antimatter loaded and will switch from there depending upon what I'm going to shoot.

Void can be used on anything if you can slow it down enough,
Fednavy antimatter for when you can't
Null for when you need the range.



I'm the same, except I usually have T2 ammo preloaded.

Void hits like a freight train, good when you need to end a fight before the opponent can call in reinforcements.


Muh tracking.

Post with your NPC alt main and not your main main alt!

Johnny Riko
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2015-08-20 04:19:11 UTC
Fenris Mars wrote:
Well my thinking on having Hams would be to make it a surprise. Everyone says this is how it should be fit, etc. cookie cutter, and people can prepare for you.


Like said above, if you are going to have multiple weapon systems, then you ideally want them to have overlapping effective ranges. This is why drones are such a good weapon system, because they are good regardless of engagement range. There are a few exceptions however. For example you may decide to fit a vexor with it's primary DPS coming from its drones, but put small blasters in the turret slots so that you can effectively destroy any enemy drones that attack you.

I wanna join up. I think I got what it takes to be a Citizen.

Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#16 - 2015-08-20 10:57:36 UTC
Yang Aurilen wrote:
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
I can only speak for blasters but I carry void, fed navy antimatter and null.
For PvP always use fed navy charges when not using t2 ammunition.

I generally have fed navy antimatter loaded and will switch from there depending upon what I'm going to shoot.

Void can be used on anything if you can slow it down enough,
Fednavy antimatter for when you can't
Null for when you need the range.



I'm the same, except I usually have T2 ammo preloaded.

Void hits like a freight train, good when you need to end a fight before the opponent can call in reinforcements.


Muh tracking.


That concern is why I carry faction antimatter.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com

Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#17 - 2015-08-20 11:09:31 UTC
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
I can only speak for blasters but I carry void, fed navy antimatter and null.
For PvP always use fed navy charges when not using t2 ammunition.

I generally have fed navy antimatter loaded and will switch from there depending upon what I'm going to shoot.

Void can be used on anything if you can slow it down enough,
Fednavy antimatter for when you can't
Null for when you need the range.



I'm the same, except I usually have T2 ammo preloaded.

Void hits like a freight train, good when you need to end a fight before the opponent can call in reinforcements.

yeah we generally have a scout with the target long before the fight starts so i have an idea of what ill need beforehand.

im also running a fednavy web and scram so that helps considerably with slowing stuff down
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2015-08-20 12:30:27 UTC
TL;DR

spike = rail sniping
javelin = rail brawling up close
void = only if you can track target perfectly
null = if you need range/something trying to kite you
Tyrendian Biohazard
The Bastards
Sedition.
#19 - 2015-08-20 13:27:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyrendian Biohazard
Johnny Riko wrote:
Tyrendian Biohazard wrote:
Mostly, but, and this is my personal opinion, antimatter is what is commonly used for the base ammo in both groups.. Decent range, good damage, and doesn't have any of the tracking penalties.

Also, I try not to use Spike unless its extremely long range. With my fits, thorium is usually enough to hit what I need and does better damage without losing tracking as well. It is a personal preference. Null doesn't reach very far, and usually only good within scram range. Beyond that, you better hope you can run them down.

Of course there is always changing circumstances. Void if you happen to be running something with dual web, etc.


Antimatter has good range? The only ammo type that has worse is Javelin, which has better tracking and dps to make up for it.


Antimatter range is decent, depending on your engagement range. Using a Comet, fit only with 150mm rails, you see see the paper DPS application based on range. The target stats is a Firetail running a T2 AB (roughly 1300m/s with a sigrad of 35) and an angle of 90 degrees.

http://i.imgur.com/h5rlQbH.png

Javelin is better until the 10km mark, where they meet, but anything after, Antimatter will apply better. Then you hit the (roughly) 13km mark, and Thorium takes over. Spike, due to its long range and tracking reduction, barely touches the target within a 20km range and doesn't peak until 35km.

Again, its all paper, and encounters on TQ rarely go as planned on paper. Blink

EDIT: I also made one using 125mm rails, in case you are using those because of fitting reasons. http://i.imgur.com/TeZk6Ib.png

Twitch streamer and EVE NT tournament broadcaster.

Tiberius Heth
Doomheim
#20 - 2015-08-20 15:46:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Tiberius Heth
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
TL;DR

spike = rail sniping
javelin = rail brawling up close
void = only if you can track target perfectly
null = if you need range/something trying to kite you


This, really.

If you run blasters in PVP then I'd have Null loaded as of standard as it'll be more useful more of the time than the other ammo types. Void is one of those EFT warrior's wet dreams about amazing DPS which you generally won't actually apply ingame in most situations.

Also: T2 ammo is specialised ammo for specific situations. It's NOT a direct upgrade in a "well now that I have T2 guns I better start using T2 ammo".
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