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What if there actually was "terrain" in EVE
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1-Up Mushroom
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2012-01-02 23:38:32 UTC
What if there actually was places to hide in space instead of just vast emptiness. I'm not talking about docking up or going to a new system I mean legit places to hide while being in space.

For example, you find yourself in a lonely asteroid belt in 0.3 space ratting to make a living, you check local, 2 people, seems safe enough. As you blow up the final rat you notice a rifter just warped in 43km from you on the other side of the belt. Quickly, you hide on the other side of a giant asteroid and you falloff the rifters overview. You wait, 10 seconds pass, 20, 30, finally the rifter warps away and your safe behind the asteroid.

What if if you couldn't literally see the ship if you were in it, it wouldn't show up on your overview, so you could hide behind giant asteroids waiting to either pounce on someone or for them to warp away, if your 1000m from a gate and someone warps in from the gate, you stay close next to the gate so they can't see and they warp off, or you hide your fleet boosting alt on the other side of a station.

So essentially if you can't literally see if from your ships windows it won't show up on your overview, but it will show up on a d-scan, so if you just undocked from station to see nothing on your overview, you pull up d-scan and see a vulture 342km from you, you active your MWD and orbit the station and as line-of-sight on the back of it comes up the vulture pops up on your overview you lock and destroy.


Imagine 100 rifters hiding behind asteroids away from the warp-in point, one lone rifter sits in the middle of the belt pretending to rat, a ferox warps in and approaching the rifter ready to lock and shoot, then the rifter signals his 100 buddys and all of a sudden 100 rifters emerge from the backs of asteroid belts, the ferox starts trying to warp as he realizes it's a trap but the lone rifter has him scrammed, OH NO! the 100 rifters lock and a ferox KM is generated.

Now there is a slight problem or two, one being that you can just zoom out of your ship look at the back of a station or on the backs of asteroids, you could either have it stay like this or you could have it so ships just don't show up in space unless they're technically on your overview.


So whatcha guys think? A few bugs but could make pvp much more interesting.
5 Senses In A Person... 4 Seasons In A Year... 3 Colors In A Stoplight... 2 Poles On The Earth... ONLY 1-UP MUSHROOM!!!  If You Like My Sig, Like Me!   Remember EVE is EVErything!
Aiwha
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#2 - 2012-01-02 23:41:10 UTC
The coding would make most sane peoples head explode.


EDIT: And OHGOD THE LAG!

Sanity is fun leaving the body.
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone
Caldari State
#3 - 2012-01-02 23:43:06 UTC
1-Up Mushroom wrote:
What if there actually was places to hide in space instead of just vast emptiness. I'm not talking about docking up or going to a new system I mean legit places to hide while being in space.

For example, you find yourself in a lonely asteroid belt in 0.3 space ratting to make a living, you check local, 2 people, seems safe enough. As you blow up the final rat you notice a rifter just warped in 43km from you on the other side of the belt. Quickly, you hide on the other side of a giant asteroid and you falloff the rifters overview. You wait, 10 seconds pass, 20, 30, finally the rifter warps away and your safe behind the asteroid.

What if if you couldn't literally see the ship if you were in it, it wouldn't show up on your overview, so you could hide behind giant asteroids waiting to either pounce on someone or for them to warp away, if your 1000m from a gate and someone warps in from the gate, you stay close next to the gate so they can't see and they warp off, or you hide your fleet boosting alt on the other side of a station.

So essentially if you can't literally see if from your ships windows it won't show up on your overview, but it will show up on a d-scan, so if you just undocked from station to see nothing on your overview, you pull up d-scan and see a vulture 342km from you, you active your MWD and orbit the station and as line-of-sight on the back of it comes up the vulture pops up on your overview you lock and destroy.


Imagine 100 rifters hiding behind asteroids away from the warp-in point, one lone rifter sits in the middle of the belt pretending to rat, a ferox warps in and approaching the rifter ready to lock and shoot, then the rifter signals his 100 buddys and all of a sudden 100 rifters emerge from the backs of asteroid belts, the ferox starts trying to warp as he realizes it's a trap but the lone rifter has him scrammed, OH NO! the 100 rifters lock and a ferox KM is generated.

Now there is a slight problem or two, one being that you can just zoom out of your ship look at the back of a station or on the backs of asteroids, you could either have it stay like this or you could have it so ships just don't show up in space unless they're technically on your overview.


So whatcha guys think? A few bugs but could make pvp much more interesting.



well ,i like your SIG

R.S.I2014
Alexa Coates
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2012-01-02 23:52:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Alexa Coates
This is really stupid.
So, op, what you're saying is, even with tech we could only dream of having, we have to see them to be able to 'see' them? that's just stupid.

That's a Templar, an Amarr fighter used by carriers.
Sara XIII
The Carnifex Corp
#5 - 2012-01-02 23:54:38 UTC
Maybe leave Jita for a while hotdog.......
Between Ignorance and Wisdom
Rhinanna
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2012-01-02 23:57:49 UTC
No to the LOS based hiding, it doesn't fit the Lore or the gameplay.

Now having nebula/gas clouds that limit scan range massively, well thats another thing altogether and would rock!

-The sword is only as sharp as the one who wields it! Other names: Drenzul (WoT, WoW, Lineage 2, WarH, BloodBowl, BSG, SC2 and lots more) 
Alexa Coates
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2012-01-02 23:58:33 UTC
also what prevents the searching pilot from zooming all the way out and looking behind stuff? this is literally the dumbest idea i've heard in a looong time.

That's a Templar, an Amarr fighter used by carriers.
Professor Alphane
Les Corsaires Diable
#8 - 2012-01-02 23:59:07 UTC
Nice idea but I would bring up one scientific objection, things that are 'solid' to the visible light spectrum aren't necaserily so to other EM waveforms ie x-rays- thermographics etc. so I don't think it would really work on a short range level.

Not entirely sure how long range scanning works, but perhaps it might be nice if you could 'hide' in the area of another large signitare ie. asteroid fields (grav) or gas clouds (ladar)

[center]YOU MUST THINK FIRST....[/center] [center]"I sit with the broken angels clutching at straws and nursing our scars.." - Marillion [/center] [center]The wise man watches the rise and fall of fools from afar[/center]
1-Up Mushroom
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#9 - 2012-01-03 00:08:03 UTC
Well at least it worked in stars wars when Jango fett was chasing Obi-wan through an asteroid belt Lol
5 Senses In A Person... 4 Seasons In A Year... 3 Colors In A Stoplight... 2 Poles On The Earth... ONLY 1-UP MUSHROOM!!!  If You Like My Sig, Like Me!   Remember EVE is EVErything!
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone
Caldari State
#10 - 2012-01-03 00:11:26 UTC
can,t give a opinion about hiding behind large objects,like the game the way it is and didn,t give much thought about it
You must assume that being in a scifi game ,its impossible to hide for sensors
the only thing that i don,t like being shot ,while being on the other side of a large object
But asking to change that must be a major rewrite of software that runs this game and of course the extra stress on the server.

R.S.I2014
Morganta
The Greater Goon
#11 - 2012-01-03 00:14:41 UTC
environmental limitations? sure
LOS rules? NO
1-Up Mushroom
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#12 - 2012-01-03 00:15:07 UTC
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:
can,t give a opinion about hiding behind large objects,like the game the way it is and didn,t give much thought about it
You must assume that being in a scifi game ,its impossible to hide for sensors
the only thing that i don,t like being shot ,while being on the other side of a large object
But asking to change that must be a major rewrite of software that runs this game and of course the extra stress on the server.


Yea I didn't know missiles could choose whether or not to collide with stations or not when they fly through them Shocked
5 Senses In A Person... 4 Seasons In A Year... 3 Colors In A Stoplight... 2 Poles On The Earth... ONLY 1-UP MUSHROOM!!!  If You Like My Sig, Like Me!   Remember EVE is EVErything!
SmegB
Almost Dangerous
Wolves Amongst Strangers
#13 - 2012-01-03 00:21:03 UTC
...dumb...
Mors Sanctitatis
Death of Virtue
#14 - 2012-01-03 01:07:41 UTC
1-Up Mushroom wrote:
What if there actually was places to hide in space instead of just vast emptiness. I'm not talking about docking up or going to a new system I mean legit places to hide while being in space.

For example, you find yourself in a lonely asteroid belt in 0.3 space ratting to make a living, you check local, 2 people, seems safe enough. As you blow up the final rat you notice a rifter just warped in 43km from you on the other side of the belt. Quickly, you hide on the other side of a giant asteroid and you falloff the rifters overview. You wait, 10 seconds pass, 20, 30, finally the rifter warps away and your safe behind the asteroid.

What if if you couldn't literally see the ship if you were in it, it wouldn't show up on your overview, so you could hide behind giant asteroids waiting to either pounce on someone or for them to warp away, if your 1000m from a gate and someone warps in from the gate, you stay close next to the gate so they can't see and they warp off, or you hide your fleet boosting alt on the other side of a station.

So essentially if you can't literally see if from your ships windows it won't show up on your overview, but it will show up on a d-scan, so if you just undocked from station to see nothing on your overview, you pull up d-scan and see a vulture 342km from you, you active your MWD and orbit the station and as line-of-sight on the back of it comes up the vulture pops up on your overview you lock and destroy.


Imagine 100 rifters hiding behind asteroids away from the warp-in point, one lone rifter sits in the middle of the belt pretending to rat, a ferox warps in and approaching the rifter ready to lock and shoot, then the rifter signals his 100 buddys and all of a sudden 100 rifters emerge from the backs of asteroid belts, the ferox starts trying to warp as he realizes it's a trap but the lone rifter has him scrammed, OH NO! the 100 rifters lock and a ferox KM is generated.

Now there is a slight problem or two, one being that you can just zoom out of your ship look at the back of a station or on the backs of asteroids, you could either have it stay like this or you could have it so ships just don't show up in space unless they're technically on your overview.


So whatcha guys think? A few bugs but could make pvp much more interesting.



While the concept is entertaining, I think that the execution is a bit off, for various gameplay and practical reasons.

I would suggest taking a look at this thread here and tell me what you think of the ideas there regarding space "terrain". It's the same basic idea, but at a little larger scale and not so granular. Think "hiding in a planet's shadow" vs. a specific asteroid.

Intelligence shouldn't be free.   Mining, reloaded.   ADDICTED.

mkint
#15 - 2012-01-03 03:08:10 UTC
Personally, I like the idea. It would be a buff to small ship/small gang, nerf to big ships/belt gankers, buff to lowsec mining/ratting.

People would spend more time in belts because there would be a lot of cover to hide behind. People would spend time in small ships to hide and explore the cover. Gankers would have a harder time chasing down the barge in the belts because they could use carefully chosen positions in belts and hide as needed (thus, more barges spent in belts, thus more targets.) Conceptually there is nothing wrong with the idea and would make for a better EVE. (note, as along as the only ships that other ships can hide behind are capital ships.)

There is one big fat technical reason why this would not work... rule number 1: don't trust the client. For this to work within the constraints of rule number 1, all the heavy lifting would have to be done server side, which is not practical. Unless, of course, you were willing to go up against someone who hacked their client to be able to lock things they can't "see."

Maxim 6. If violence wasn’t your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.
Valei Khurelem
#16 - 2012-01-03 03:10:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Valei Khurelem
Aiwha wrote:
The coding would make most sane peoples head explode.


EDIT: And OHGOD THE LAG!


Go **** yourself

This idea should have been implemented years ago and people have been talking about it for years, also if you were worried so much about the lag, then why would they put collision on buildings and asteroids? In particular why put collision on asteroids? We already have the coding in place, if it's actually made to be part of the game then it can put to real use beyond harassing miners who stray too close to their rocks.

"don't get us wrong, we don't want to screw new players, on the contrary. The core problem here is that tech 1 frigates and cruisers should be appealing enough to be viable platforms in both PvE and PvP."   - CCP Ytterbium
svetlana
Constellation Guard
#17 - 2012-01-03 03:21:25 UTC
not sure about the LOS hiding but I really wish guns and missiles could not magically shoot straight through solid objects like asteroids/collidable structures, etc.

that would add a whole aditional layer of strategy in combat to manually fly behind cover, even use other people's ships as cover!

on the negative side probably very exploitable, and i'd worry about the extra computation in large fleet battles. But early in the game missiles originally acted like that, using collision detection so you could take cover behind objects from them-- I thought it was really fun while it lasted.
DarkAegix
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2012-01-03 03:23:36 UTC
Terrain could also make huge blobs less all-powerful.
Orders to focus fire everything onto one target will lead to problems as some shots harmlessly ping off asteroids in the way, and so the fleet will need to spread out over a larger area. Then, of course, logistics may have problems repping distant fleet members. The blob would be better off split, and fleet combat would be that much nicer.

Some implementation of chokepoints and funnels within the field of combat will certainly make things more interesting, too.

Even something as simple as gas clouds which reduce hit chance for enemies firing into it could bring much more interest to fleet combat.

Totally applicable for missions, too. Especially with random terrain generation!
Leisen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#19 - 2012-01-03 04:47:07 UTC
Ever been in a wormhole?
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#20 - 2012-01-03 04:55:01 UTC
why would you want to bring another inconsitency in eve?

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