Crime & Punishment

^ shoot the things they don't want you to shoot also.
Unintended losses? Gank that bowhead!
Espionage to find out who they is, and get all sexy with their hauler alts. Beat them at their own game.
Ultimately though you are going to have to exert at least as much effort and exercise at least as much intelligence to inflict meaningful loss on them.
This means dedication, coordination and collaboration. Without it nothing of consequence will happen. It's not on CCP to change things in this matter, it's up to the players who actually care enough to implement a change through force. (and by force I'm not talking just physical)

Yes yes yes. Welcome back from your "hiatus". Now, before you do anything more foolish than you already have (good luck), we should talk about your permit.

Or rather, your lack thereof. Why do you not have a permit?

I rarely let my expectations dampen my curiosity. I'd genuinely like to hear what he had in mind; whether I get to or not is entirely up to him and I'm okay with that.

I'm really impressed by quality of the posts and time you have spent - thanks guys.


If your interested, I think the best way to introduce a bit more risk for James315 and his 'New Order' is to target the source of their funds. When I last played, you'd simply target the industrial base (POS, Moons, Miners etc etc). There was a direct link which seems to be missing with James315 and his 'New Order'. Still the obvious targets are the published shareholders and permit holders.


As far as game mechanisms go, nothing to the game play mechanism, but it would be really interesting to access individual/corp net worth and look at isk transfers between players/corps/alliances. (Or maybe not, perhaps a little too incriminating.)

I'm going back into the game.

Thanks all

Just target permit holders. Make it more dangerous to hold a permit than it is not to have one.

Have fun.

You don't need a mechanism to see who is transferring ISK to the New Order as James 315 posts it for the world to see: http://www.minerbumping.com/p/shareholders.html

Clearly some of those are alts you will have trouble identifying, but the problem you are going to have is that the New Order has support from a broad range of the population - many people from many backgrounds support the goals of the New Order. You will not find a single or small number of targets providing most of the funds.

Further, I think you overestimate the value of that donated ISK. Even a glance at the killboard shows 1.7T in losses for CODE. while James 315 has only paid out ~650B, and that SRP is open to everyone, not just alliance members. Many (most?) established gankers tend to fund their own ganking so if the SRP went away, it would not be crippling. It would hurt sure, and would make it harder for new players to take up the cause, but stopping it would not kill the New Order.

Ganking permit holders would help more than it would hurt the New Order. Having a permit does not make you safe from New Order ganks - you also need to follow the Code which pretty much makes you ungankable. Agents will gank permit holders that are blatantly AFK so you are just doing their work for them. Besides, permit income is a drop in the bucket compared to other sources so it is not really a viable target.

I think it is impossible to beat an organization who defines its goal as basically to make highsec a more interesting place on their terms. They gank they win, you fight back they win. However, you could beat them on you own terms if you set a goal to stop the ganks. However, you will quickly find yourself in the situation of spending your playtime defending the ISK-making efforts of strangers for no compensation. If you find that fun, there is a community of people who try to do this, but realize that you will never completely succeed. It will be like Faction Warfare where you will have wins and losses, but the fundamental game is such that you will never have complete victory.

At this point complete victory is impossible unless you get CCP to change the game. Even if James 315 left, the Code is just basically an idea with a bunch of momentum behind it that it would carry on for a long time. You could try to infiltrate the CODE. Alliance and metagame a failure there, but even then they don't control the website or SRP assets and James 315 keeps the New Order itself at an arms length from the alliance. All this considered, it's probably best then to just enjoy the New Order as the content they are - fight them, join them, or just read the website.

Too large crap/post ratio on this threads.

Eve is about money. Simple.

CCP says what those who listen want to hear. CCP develops what those who play want to see (stress that I said see, not play), and CCP allows what those who stay are able to bear. Simple as that, numbers.

Get the examples of player made Universe given which are always the same, and always people who history shows have been there from all EVE public history, since ever. Apparently they are above the idea of people having to lose what they got.

This is fun. Have you never seen a freighter go suspect when looting a wreck? How many of you anti-gankers and cry babies have the stones to do that in a freighter? Is that not enough risk? Will the tears only stop when you can operate in complete safety without fear of loss? Pathetic.