Crime & Punishment

Something similar to idea with permanent SKINS? A few hundred million (or whatever) up front and then minimal replacement costs? How do you think that would impact industrial players and the rest of the economy?

Depends on how the insurance works, if the player gets ISK value or his actual ship/mods/rigs back 'as was' for the insurance deductible cost, provided by an NPC.

Ostensibly though from there CCP can manipulate base manufacturing costs (and prices) of all other stuff on the market, to offset 'lost' industrial revenue -- up to including beefed NPC buy orders.

I think if CCP had the will to do it, in the name of fighting risk-aversion and making EvE the thunderdome it should be, they could figure out a way to do it that keeps the industry minded people still producing stuff and happily pve'ing their hearts out.

F

I'm not on a high horse Feyd. I'm saying that I don't think you know what's best for the entire cluster.

No. I acknowledged that your motivations are legit and question the logic of your arguments - particularly the part where you advocate for grinding high-sec into the dirt and removing choice from the player base to suit your own needs. Some of your ideas have been really great but I'm not a fan of this one.

You got me there - I was thinking about an earlier post where I said that advocating for null-sec was understandable because it's where you live. Balance is an indicator of a healthy system and I'm not sure that killing one zone of gameplay to "save" another is the right thing to do, in my opinion.

Many of the people that play EVE, do not like null gameplay. "Generates most mainstream news coverage" is not synonomous with "best." If you think otherwise, I have a Donald Trump 2016 hat you can wear. I, like many others, was initially exposed to this game by the news coverage of grand heists and Titan brawls. But within a few weeks I knew that those grand, strategic, fate-of-empires fleet scraps were out of reach to a new player except as a relative bystander in a cheap frigate. And I was far from sure that I wanted to be a part of the null aspect of the game at all.

Also, you don't do yourselves any favors talking non-chalantly about logging in your dread alt mid-fight. The game of alts /multiboxing meta already presents a huge barrier of entry and general turn-off to new players. When you in one breath talk about lack of content in null / overpopulation of hisec, and in the next talk about dropping supers on anyone who presents a real threat to your Tengus, I can't help but facepalm.

I feel like we've been through this before with highsec. Trying to force people, in a game they pay money to play because they find it entertaining and can just as easily stop paying for, to compete and provide content in an arena where they are at a massive mechanical disadvantage, is the height of stupidity.

There are A LOT of people in null. The problem is that most of them are in big alliances that almost never fight each other on a scale where there's a risk of real loss.

Leto,
I'm not trying to dump your bling. I'd be open to just nerfing highsec ISK. Incursions are unreasonably profitable. I think an appropriate nerf for incursions would be to move them to lowsec.

I guess the whole risk argument is kind of bunk when you consider how fast one can make risk-free isk in high sec. Nerfing the insurance program is just going to make it harder to lose isk... Which is already too easy to make.

I do think t3 specifically needs to be much more expensive, they're obsoleting much of the battleship, hac, and t1 fleets with a relatively low cost solution.



At the end of the day, the only game change I care about is the return of can flipping. The rest of this stuff is just a matter of degrees to me.

Is it just Incursions in high sec that people take umbrage to for risk free ISK? I tried level 4 blitzing one fateful weekend when a big gaming tournament was on that I wanted to watch. I lasted about 6 hours and the ISK was so laughable for the time invested I just went and did DEDs in lowsec.

Brave Newbies (the concept) proved huge numbers of new players can be fast tracked into losec and null and be effective. This spawned other similar groups like Pandemic Horde for the same purpose. Hardly 'out of reach'. What I suspect is many fall into the lazy hisec PVE trap, because it is profitable and reasonably safe.

My point is how do we have mechanics spawn the constant creation of more groups like Brave, who start out in Hek, amass huge numbers, then forge out into losec and hisec?

I also think Donald Trump is a boss.


First off, a dread is not a super. A dread cannot even hit anything smaller than a battleship (for the most part). Dreads are for zapping structures or other dreads and supers.

Secondly, in the new Fozzie sov model Dreads and Supers have been rendered pretty inert, because you no longer shoot structures with them to capture sov; you use a magical entosis wand. It just takes one newbro in a frigate with an entosis module to capture a (empty) system.

Also, Brave did give our fleets a run for our money (and even defeated us) on several occaisions. All you need to counter a Tengu fleet as you mention is an EM/Thermal throwing fleet of greater numbers with EWAR, which brave used extensively to great effect. Believe me, a fleet of 150 Brave Newbies in Eagles or Even Moa's backed by 50 dudes in ewar ships was a serious ballache.

..But, good fights -- and if my ship-replacement insurance scheme gets some love, we would have even more of them.


If most (if not all) new players were fast tracked into groups like Brave Newbies, Pandemid Horde, et al -- they wouldn't be at such a disadvantage, especially with my notion of losec pockets distributed evenly throughout null as attack/retreat staging areas for them.

There are any number of ways to adjust null mechanics to enable new entrants to gain footholds, the retooling of indexes vs. entosis timers was one step...there can be others.

Point is, EvE will remain a stagnant (and often content dry pvp'wise) game until bold moves like these are considered. I guarantee you, if you ask even the hisec pvp dudes, those who answered honestly would at least concede they have to scratch and sniff to find targets or goodfights...

That is not my generalized idea of EvE. EvE should be a non-risk-averse culture of constant thunderdoming, as the core and soul of what the game is; everything else as secondary to that. If you lose that precept, you have lost the plot IMHO.

F

If EvE really became this, it would lose a massive portion of its current hisec residents. These people don't want to play in the kind of game you've described, and if EvE becomes that, they'll leave.

Conversely, bittervets who unsubbed because of stagnation would potentially come back, and many newer players would, indeed, get fastracked out to nullsec.

The question, which I don't think anyone can answer with certainty, is this: which of these two trends wins?

You think the latter would. I think the former would. This is why I prefer plans that head in the same general direction as yours but aren't quite so radical: you get some of the benefit without as much loss.

EDIT: Remember that EvE is a sandbox, which means having lots of options. Choosing to stay in hisec should remain a valid choice (albeit a less profitable one) specifically because the sandbox is about more options, not fewer.