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AT XIII RULING: Together We Solo vs Gone Critical - Team Warp-in

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CCP Logibro
C C P
C C P Alliance
#1 - 2015-08-15 21:10:13 UTC
Hey Guys

In match 14 between Together We Solo and Gone Critical, the Together We Solo team warped onto the field at 100km. The rules state that teams must warp in at a maximum of 50km.

In this case, the breach in the rules was not picked up by the referee, and the match played out with the Together We Solo team winning the match.

After review and discussion by the tournament team, we have decided to let the result of the match stand. We now have plans in place to improve the check for this in the tournament referee tools by the second weekend of play at latest.

CCP Logibro // EVE Universe Community Team // Distributor of Nanites // Patron Saint of Logistics

@CCP_Logibro
Globby
Never Ignorant Gettin' Goals Accomplished
Gimme Da Loot
#2 - 2015-08-15 21:53:15 UTC
Just wanted to let you know, but if the warpin was 50km closer it is more than likely that the losers would have won.
Talia Soucu
Monkeys Violating the Heavenly Temple
#3 - 2015-08-15 21:55:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Talia Soucu
So ... the team that breaks the rules, wins the match and gets no penalties?

And here I thought CCP couldn't surprise me.
Mizhir
Devara Biotech
#4 - 2015-08-15 21:55:08 UTC
Gone Critical was atcually close to breaking a SNI which could have won them the match. The warpin certainly skewed it towards Together We Solo.

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Aebe Amraen
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#5 - 2015-08-15 21:58:16 UTC
This is a very unfortunate decision.

The rules are well established. For the sake of the integrity of the tournament, a team which breaks the rules should be punished, whether or not you believe it affected the outcome of the match--which it very well might have in this case.

Please reverse your stance and either count this as a loss for Together We Solo or disqualify them from the tournament entirely.
Henry Plantgenet
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2015-08-15 22:03:24 UTC
Wouldn't it be prudent to redo the match out of fairness?
In the past a warp in violation like this would have put the team at 0 and possibly even a health penalty to the penalizing ships.

Wondering "what ifs" is not useful because that scenario didn't happen :)
Skyler Hawk
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#7 - 2015-08-15 22:10:27 UTC
Aebe Amraen wrote:
This is a very unfortunate decision.

The rules are well established. For the sake of the integrity of the tournament, a team which breaks the rules should be punished, whether or not you believe it affected the outcome of the match--which it very well might have in this case.

Please reverse your stance and either count this as a loss for Together We Solo or disqualify them from the tournament entirely.

I have to agree with this.
Glasgow Dunlop
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2015-08-15 22:15:55 UTC
Personally I would have the match replayed, but it's up to Logibro and his team how he wants it handled.

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Deck Cadelanne
CAStabouts
#9 - 2015-08-15 22:18:31 UTC
CCP Logibro wrote:
Hey Guys

In match 14 between Together We Solo and Gone Critical, the Together We Solo team warped onto the field at 100km. The rules state that teams must warp in at a maximum of 50km.

In this case, the breach in the rules was not picked up by the referee, and the match played out with the Together We Solo team winning the match.

After review and discussion by the tournament team, we have decided to let the result of the match stand. We now have plans in place to improve the check for this in the tournament referee tools by the second weekend of play at latest.


This is the wrong call.

Failing to enforce the rules in this tournament will encourage more cheating.

Using the excuse that "the ref didn't notice" makes it even worse.

"When the going gets weird, the weird turn professional."

- Hunter S. Thompson
handige harrie
Vereenigde Handels Compagnie
#10 - 2015-08-15 22:20:49 UTC  |  Edited by: handige harrie
What new hidden rules we learned in Day 1:

1. Teams can do whatever they want, as long as you are the first team doing it, you'll get off with a warning.

2. CCPs referees are so bad, they might aswel be blind or just not be in the arena system at all. Since they don't do what they're supposed to do incase they're supposed to do anything. (missing a warpin and deadspace mods where they aren't allowed is kinda dumb really). Being a volunteer, is not an excuse for doing a ****** job.

3. Warping at 100KM is now legal, per stated CCP post at the top of this thread. As you can't rule different in another match as you would not be judging matches consistantly when you make stuff up on the fly.

How do you want to get taken seriously as any sort of fair event with ruling like the ones we've seen today, both breaches where the teams faults and not the games faults?


This is a fun thread to reference people to when they ask dumb questions about EVE and Esports.

Baddest poster ever
Soldarius
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#11 - 2015-08-15 22:20:50 UTC
I am disappointed in CCP's decision in this matter.

Not seeing why both teams can't have all their destroyed assets returned and the match re-run. Yes, it would take a bit of time. But not that much time.

http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
Aliventi
Rattini Tribe
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#12 - 2015-08-15 22:21:09 UTC
Why not apply a point penalty to their next match? Let them use 95 out of 100 points.
AgentHawk
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2015-08-15 22:30:02 UTC
the TEST team will not stand for any of this bullshit in our matches

we literally practice YEAR ROUND for every AT with only ~2 months off out of the year

people have missed work, called in sick, missed weddings (it was an aunt's remarriage but still) so they can practice or play in the AT match

to have it end in this kind of slip up is just so wrong, and so disappointing, and so offensive to the SMALL community of players that put so much effort into a small aspect of the game that means so much to them

players pointed out the illegally fitted flagship
players pointed out the stream overlay was cutting off the 12th player and not showing the full team
players pointed out a team illegally warped to 100km

pay someone to make a god damn checklist ffs

50 ******* km is a lot more space than ANYONE is reasonably expecting to deal with, if it was the TEST team i would have been stirring so much **** in local
handige harrie
Vereenigde Handels Compagnie
#14 - 2015-08-15 22:38:31 UTC
Sad for the teams which put in the effort to make a great showing, but it looks like chances for a fair competition are already out of the windows for this years tournament. :(

Baddest poster ever
Hoodie Mafia
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#15 - 2015-08-15 22:39:08 UTC
I can do nothing but speak up against this decision. Mistakes will happen but you cannot allow unfair advantages for any team without at the very least applying a penalty to the offending team

Even better, force a rematch with the same comps at a proper warpin locations
Mister Marram
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#16 - 2015-08-15 22:39:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Mister Marram
If the rules can be broken without consequence, then what is the point in having rules at all.

Since the winners won the match, it should be forfeit. If they had lost then the rule breaking gave them no advantage and so the result would stand.

If the winner is left as is, then it sets a dangerous precedent for future rule breaking.
Transmaritanus
Exergy.
#17 - 2015-08-15 22:43:15 UTC
Since neither side has actually weighed in yet, I'll post what we saw from our side:


  • We were sitting at the start positions for a good 4-6 minutes before the match started. In this time, neither team nor GMs said anything about the ranges, which was 100km off.
  • In the time we were sitting at the start position, an opposing Oneiros warped in at a bad angle, and was corrected by a GM. Again, nothing in local even mentioned warping in at an unfair advantage.
  • 100km warp in would make a significant difference if we were in a kiting fleet; however we were clearly in a brawl fleet, as we barely moved from our start position.
  • Nobody on either side died until everyone was on top of each other


Again, neither team said anything before the match started or after the match ended, we acted in good faith and the other team appeared to have believed so too.
Ivory Kantenu
Apotheosis.
#18 - 2015-08-15 22:46:46 UTC
As a fellow participant this year as well, I certainly cannot agree with this call on CCPs part.

We all hope you reconsider your decision on behalf of both teams, as you have basically given a greenlight to the team with the unfair advantage, and have basically punished the ones following the rules you yourselves put into play.

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Alex Rax
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2015-08-15 22:48:09 UTC
"You can't break the rules, but they can!"

I can't help but say I'm disappointed in CCP for this decision, I thought the AT was supposed to be about the best players on a even footing but I guess I was wrong, it's about who can cheat the most and get away with it.
Gideon Enderas
Mafia Redux
#20 - 2015-08-15 22:57:01 UTC
This just encourages cheating. Not punishing people for infractions is complete trash. At this rate a team might as well use high grade implants and 6% hardwirings. If they lose them for some reason, it will be another case of "Oops, oh well. They lost them so that's punishment enough".
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