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Dev blog: Citadels, sieges and you

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Eryn Velasquez
#161 - 2015-08-15 09:18:22 UTC
Just some thoughts about this whole entosis and destruction thing:

1. Create Entosis Links for ship classes, S, M, L, XL,
2. For every stage leading to the destruction of a XL structure, more entosis power is needed, regardless of the time needed through index levels.

For example:
To entose a XL structure into stage 1, only a small ship is needed, for stage 2 a small group of cruisers, for stage 3 a small fleet of battlecruisers or battleships and for the final destruction you'll need to field a group of capitals or a big bs fleet.

_“A man's freedom consists in his being able to do whatever he wills, but that he should not, by any human power, be forced to do what is against his will.” ― Jean-Jacques Rousseau _
Gabriel Karade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#162 - 2015-08-15 10:04:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Gabriel Karade
CCP Nullarbor wrote:
Absent Sworn wrote:
So, no mention of some minimal level of automated defense structures to prevent the lone entosing trollceptor. The CSM FAQ simply says "No", is that still the case and planned direction?


Correct there will be no automatic guns, but the concerns about trollceptors have been heard loud and clear.

I don't see how that could possibly work - there needs to be a degree of automated defence.

Granted, much less effective than having a human directing it, but at least some minimal defence to shoo away entosis trolling attempts. These aren't going to be 'throwaway' TCUs people are putting up.

Quote:

One long range weapon, primarily meant to take down large and slow ships, like battleships or capitals. Can be fitted with ammunition that reduces range but increases damage proportionally.

One short-medium range weapon, best at taking down smaller threats, but doing considerably less damage. Can be fitted with ammunition that reduces range but increases application proportionally.
Perhaps automate the latter, with a manual override? Keeping the bigger guns capsuleer operated?

War Machine: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=386293
Horus V
The Destined
#163 - 2015-08-15 10:42:47 UTC
I think people start missing old Pos system even before they take it away.

V
gascanu
Bearing Srl.
#164 - 2015-08-15 11:18:17 UTC  |  Edited by: gascanu
Horus V wrote:
I think people start missing old Pos system even before they take it away.


haha true;

what's worse, under this new proposed system, CCP is taking away our KILLMAILS. yea, i know the dead structure will genarate a kill, but on it only the guy with the flashlight will appear...
i don't think CCP realize that there are allot of ppl that play this game for killmails. they will spend, some time, hours and hours shooting stuff for one killmail, and leaving 99% of the fleet out of the killmail will do nothing to improve theyr game experience
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#165 - 2015-08-15 11:36:38 UTC
gascanu wrote:
Horus V wrote:
I think people start missing old Pos system even before they take it away.


haha true;

what's worse, under this new proposed system, CCP is taking away our KILLMAILS. yea, i know the dead structure will genarate a kill, but on it only the guy with the flashlight will appear...
i don't think CCP realize that there are allot of ppl that play this game for killmails. they will spend, some time, hours and hours shooting stuff for one killmail, and leaving 99% of the fleet out of the killmail will do nothing to improve theyr game experience


Moreso when the possibility of loot is dropping to near zero.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Delt0r Garsk
Shits N Giggles
#166 - 2015-08-15 12:21:55 UTC
Overall i quite like the new system. However no auto guns is really lame. Just have each gun target randomly like now and no auto AoE guns. This is effective against trolls, but even a half organized small group with logi would have no problems. this also gives a higher relative cost to fitting powerful AoE weapons as you lose the slot.

I also have learnt that people can't read and love to demonstrate that ignorance by immediately posting. And

Dam some people really spend a LOT of time claiming to be doing things they hate. Why are you still here? Most of you have been foaming at the mouth with the same rhetoric for years, just leave already and don't let the door hit you on the way out.

AKA the scientist.

Death and Glory!

Well fun is also good.
Grognard Commissar
SUNDERING
Goonswarm Federation
#167 - 2015-08-15 15:21:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Grognard Commissar
Kage S3kkou wrote:
Grognard Commissar wrote:
Quote:
Will Citadel weapons be automated?
No.

that's is THE DUMBEST thing i've ever heard from ccp... i mean, seriously? CODE. will just fly around in trollceptors now, and reinforce all the things. don't even try to argue about concord. they'll just wardec all the alt structure corps out there. also, hisec wardeccers will have a heyday with all this.
currently, possed can have enough guns to fend off anyone that isn't serious about taking down the POS... as it should be.
not everyone can keep an alt logged in through every vulnerability. ll it does is add another boring job in the game.
I don't play EvE to babysit a structure for hours, so, without non-automated defenses, screw a citadel, i'll just do all my production in a station. it's not even worth the bonuses at that point.


Not arguing with you, but you do realise that these structures are going to replace stations and even NPC stations will be changed or removed at some point in the future (although not now), as hinted at in the dev blog.

"So, we quickly decided that our new structures would need to be destructible, especially since they are going to be available everywhere from high-security to wormhole space. However, this introduces another problem: we want our structures to be used, but one of the deterrents against that goal is the fact they compete against existing NPC stations and player outposts (before we nuke them that is).".

yeah, that's true. people just won't use structures, aside from sovnull people. I certainly won't.
I like the revised permissions and such, but the whole idea that you need to babysit the structure, is just dumb, especially since many EvE players have highly variable schedules.
Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery
Sending Thots And Players
#168 - 2015-08-15 15:25:09 UTC
You could have 100% vulnerability in highsec, because it won't matter anyway - whoever doesn't spot the war coming 24 hours out won't be able to schedule 4 hours of their day to empty the thing out and unanchor it. Lame.

~~ Localectomy Blog ~~
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#169 - 2015-08-15 16:41:55 UTC
Trinkets friend wrote:
You could have 100% vulnerability in highsec, because it won't matter anyway - whoever doesn't spot the war coming 24 hours out won't be able to schedule 4 hours of their day to empty the thing out and unanchor it. Lame.


If only your vulnerability period wasn't a mere 3 hours a week, and invisible to the attackers to begin with. Roll

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
May O'Neez
Flying Blacksmiths
#170 - 2015-08-15 18:14:03 UTC
Hello, I am not sure to understand this sentence:

Quote:
On top of the points above, all structures, no matter their size or role, will have warpable signatures like cosmic combat anomalies. None of them will need to be probed to be warped to, even if the user doesn’t not have direct access to them. This will ensure pilots can quickly see what’s happening in their surroundings without having to use probes, and thus not having to give their position away to the inhabitants.


Does that mean that anyone just look at the signatures without any scan or scouting and can see at once the corporations, their structures type, sizes and positions in a system, even in a wormhole ? Exploration and scouting gets even more dumbified IMHO.


I have also questions about the structures defense, to me the entosis link seems to be a easy way to attack (or defend also), before you had to bring a sheer force of ships depending on POS size and layout, bash some time (yes I know, booooring) but now it looks like:

- on some situations you may only need 1 ship that sits almost idle waiting for the cycles to finish (and pushing d-scan, probably), even on large structures,
- ewar and guns are capped to 8/8 (which is lower that some dissuasive POS layouts)
- and are manual only, which means that for some corporations of small to med size they may not encounter at all the attacker (personnaly I am not convinced by the window system)
- it also removes the use of lots of ships and fittings that were related to POS attack and defense, including RR and siege doctrines.


BTW, if I understand well the Starbase Defense skill will be voided (thus anchoring V & co is useless now). Is there any skill transfer or refund planned for this matter ?
Soleil Fournier
Fliet Pizza Delivery
Of Essence
#171 - 2015-08-15 19:11:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Soleil Fournier
I noticed that defending a structure is the same (10 minutes) regardless of where the indexes are. It should take longer to defend if you have no/low indexes. Let's say 20 minutes.

Also....it was stated that supers would have to be xfered to another Citadel in the same system upon citadel destruction. But what happens if we have no other citadel In system? Usually if we lose the fight/war, we aren't going to build another one....so my super will be in purgatory with me being unable to access it in this situation? That's not ok.

I'm not saying xfer it to a station in lowsec. But I should be able to recover it in that system without needing another citadel. Treat it like a spaceport launch where only I can warp to it when the citadel is destroyed. Or, xfer it to the closest XL station owned by alliance. Either way, players should have access to their stuff, indefinately locking access to it is bad mmmmk.
Orm Magnustat
Red Serpent Industries
Red Serpent Alliance
#172 - 2015-08-15 20:16:19 UTC
Soleil Fournier wrote:
................... Either way, players should have access to their stuff, indefinately locking access to it is bad mmmmk.


And if players actually end up with not beeing able to access their stuff - why not just give it to the victor?? Blink
Chen Chillin
Stella Novus Invictus
#173 - 2015-08-15 20:19:18 UTC
This system looks surprisingly good, with the exception of not having some minor auto attack response.

I would change the third vulnerable stage to include actually shooting the station to kill it though... the last entosis round totally burns out it's electronic defenses and the fleet now destroys the structure (which could have 0 shield, and 1/3 of its current armor and leaving the current structure or slightly reduced HP's).

I mean you bring a fleet to kill a structure like that and all they do is stand around with their thumb up their ass while one person hits the self destruct button? What moron installs a self destruct anyway?

also it would be nice if ALL invulnerable stations in 0.0 went away... yes this means NPC Stations... if the fleas are going to bite at least make them vulnerable..... or if you don't want to remove them, make their ship hold limit 1 ship, and item hanger limit 5,000 m3 or some small like that since the only reason they are really there is to supply pirate and ore bpo's, bpc's and asundry items.
Binadas
Overload This
Escalation Theory
#174 - 2015-08-15 22:18:07 UTC
#wormholelivesmatter

CCPlease, if you are going to nerf our unique and emergent playstyle (for the second time after cutting down c5-residents' Nullsec roaming exits), then I'd like to think it was intentional and for rational reasons, rather than as a side-effect of changes you made without even considering us.
Leila Numanor
Tritanium Industries and Technology
Goonswarm Federation
#175 - 2015-08-16 02:39:54 UTC
This thread is pretty small. hmm.. must be a shortage of players. :D
Merior
Stellar Prospectors Consortium
Antiquorum
#176 - 2015-08-16 02:40:30 UTC
Sequester Risalo wrote:
[quote=Aeril Malkyre]

I predicted tha low class wormholes - the home of single player corporations will become deserted wastelands. And I predicted that CCP will not achieve the goal described in http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/back-into-the-structure/ :

"Everyone who wants to use a structure, does: We want structures to be as widely used as possible, by removing artificial barriers or mechanics that may be in the way. This has to stay within a reasonable risk versus reward scope, of course, and as such the most rewarding structures should always be vulnerable to attack."

I know plenty people who would want to use to use a structure bunt won't do so. because doing it would be stupid under the new rules.



I have already started emptying POS's owned by separate corps in response to the scheduled plans. I will not be wasting my time with Citadels that are unnecessarily complicated and involve too much commitment to defence. I really don't understand what is so difficult about building a structure that can have automatic defences and have their vulnerability rebalanced in a release if the mechanics favour PVP excessively or Industrialists excessively - just think of it as a giant ship with new modules. By all means tidy the POS into one structure but don't ruin my game to the extent where I leave wormholes, if not the game, for all time.


Leila Numanor
Tritanium Industries and Technology
Goonswarm Federation
#177 - 2015-08-16 03:02:38 UTC
Merior wrote:
Sequester Risalo wrote:
[quote=Aeril Malkyre]

I predicted tha low class wormholes - the home of single player corporations will become deserted wastelands. And I predicted that CCP will not achieve the goal described in http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/back-into-the-structure/ :

"Everyone who wants to use a structure, does: We want structures to be as widely used as possible, by removing artificial barriers or mechanics that may be in the way. This has to stay within a reasonable risk versus reward scope, of course, and as such the most rewarding structures should always be vulnerable to attack."

I know plenty people who would want to use to use a structure bunt won't do so. because doing it would be stupid under the new rules.



I have already started emptying POS's owned by separate corps in response to the scheduled plans. I will not be wasting my time with Citadels that are unnecessarily complicated and involve too much commitment to defence. I really don't understand what is so difficult about building a structure that can have automatic defences and have their vulnerability rebalanced in a release if the mechanics favour PVP excessively or Industrialists excessively - just think of it as a giant ship with new modules. By all means tidy the POS into one structure but don't ruin my game to the extent where I leave wormholes, if not the game, for all time.




welcome to the club, we already did.
Grognard Commissar
SUNDERING
Goonswarm Federation
#178 - 2015-08-16 03:16:01 UTC
Chen Chillin wrote:
This system looks surprisingly good, with the exception of not having some minor auto attack response.

I would change the third vulnerable stage to include actually shooting the station to kill it though... the last entosis round totally burns out it's electronic defenses and the fleet now destroys the structure (which could have 0 shield, and 1/3 of its current armor and leaving the current structure or slightly reduced HP's).

I mean you bring a fleet to kill a structure like that and all they do is stand around with their thumb up their ass while one person hits the self destruct button? What moron installs a self destruct anyway?

also it would be nice if ALL invulnerable stations in 0.0 went away... yes this means NPC Stations... if the fleas are going to bite at least make them vulnerable..... or if you don't want to remove them, make their ship hold limit 1 ship, and item hanger limit 5,000 m3 or some small like that since the only reason they are really there is to supply pirate and ore bpo's, bpc's and asundry items.


i like that idea... except for the part about npc station, unless you're talking sovnull. in npcnull, that would make it basically impossible for soloer's to live out there, as well as difficulty for smaller corps.
Sasha Sen
Hull Zero Two
#179 - 2015-08-16 16:01:17 UTC
I am going to echo myself and ask again why not allow medical bays in WH citadels when the new system takes over?

Considering the fact that in order to defend a citadel someone has to be inside to man the guns I don't see a reason why not.

Otherwise make the defenses automated.
gascanu
Bearing Srl.
#180 - 2015-08-16 16:14:13 UTC  |  Edited by: gascanu
why not make M structures behave more like a pos and the XL ones more like an outpost?
this means the M ones gets no item safety system, but they are cheap and get some automated defences; the L ones should go
towards pos/outpost depending on production costs i would say...

edit: about the item safety thing: make concord do the evac: you pay a montly/one time fee and 5" before the outpost explode some concord flotila arive and get the items out; hell you can even play a cinematic for all i care

edit2: oh, and however thought about destroing poses/outposts with a flashlight ned to take a time and play eve a bit Blink