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Effectiveness of the Mordu Legion vessels?
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Mikkir
SHINKETSU Inc.
#21 - 2015-08-08 06:44:06 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Voltaire Aubrey wrote:
However, because I love shields over armour (not an issue for the nightmare) and because I'll be training up missile systems, how do the Mordu Legion vessels perform in solo PvE encounters? I note that they don't quite have the same damage boost as the nightmare does to lasers and they don't have the bastion mode of marauders.... But are the benefits and fitting options of the Mordu BS able to make up for this or is it really a waste of time to go for anything except the nightmare/paladin? (p.S at the moment I sit in amarr space and I am really not fussed about branching out all over the Galaxy)

Mordus ships are absolutely fine in PvE (especially L4s) and will fare no worse than a Golem or Navy Raven. Since I assume you're referring to the Barghest, I'll go over a few pros and cons with this ship that most don't realize.

Pros
• It has the same passive shield recharge rate as the Rattlesnake.
• It also has an excellent capacitor with recharge rate (most players don't realize this)
• It has a much higher agility, velocity and align time than the Golem, Navy Raven or Rattl.esnake (so getting to and from missions and between gates is relatively quick). It's also fast enough that you don't need a MJD to get around quickly.
• It has more base EHP than either the Golem or Navy Raven.
• It routinely sells for less than a Navy Raven and is less than half the price of a Golem.
• The high missile velocity means less likelihood of losing volleys in-transit (you don't have to really "count volleys" with the Barghest).
• 50 Mbit drone bandwidth/75m3 drone bay (so you have more drone options available than with the Golem).
• You can utilize the new Missile Guidance Enhancer II in 2-3 low slots to improve missile range and damage application (these are passive modules, so you never have to activate them or alternate between targets - unlike target painters on the Golem). This also allows you to utilize your rigs for Hyperspacial modules.
• 9.375% more raw missile DPS than the Golem or Navy Raven and 16.6% more raw missile DPS than the Rattlesnake.
• You don't need to train Marauders V or any of the target-painter related skills to get the most out of the Barghest.

Cons
• Not currently available in black (the Golem is).

Most players who utilize the Golem fawn over it's awesome damage application. The reason for this is they primarily run T2 launchers with Fury ammunition. While on paper this does more damage than Faction, the damage application is horrible - hence why you typically need to run a Golem setup with both rigors in the rigs, 2-3 target painters and IV or V target painter skills. On the Barghest you can run T2 launchers with Faction ammunition, fewer damage application modules and get the same or better results.


I've been flying a Golem, and what you're saying doesn't make sense to me.

According to what I calculate, the golem has better damage and application when dealing with T2 fury missiles vs Faction missiles.

Barghest
4xBCS
2x MGE
T2 Cruise Launchers
Faction missiles

DPS: 798
Exp Radius: 222
Exp Velocity: 114

Golem:
4xBCS
T2 Fury
T2 Cruise Launchers
2x T2 TP
2x Rigor II's

DPS: 888
Exp Radius: 281
Exp Vel: 108
However, the TP's allow the golem to get ships with 120 sig radius to 281 so it can apply full damage, and the difference in exp velocity isn't going to make up the difference. This seems like a huge time difference in applying damage to cruisers.

I tried swapping out one of the BCS for a third MGE and I didn't see anything that would make it much better. I think it was 118 velocity and 215 radius, which still leaves a lot of damage on the board against cruisers.

The Barghest is 50% faster, and with hyperspacial rigs it does warp faster (golem is 10% faster without rigs), but it's hard for me to accept that would give the barghest a clear victory when it's 10% behind in DPS and has worse application to cruisers.
Pax Deltari
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#22 - 2015-08-08 08:17:12 UTC
Arthur Aihaken, While I'd like to continue debating whether the Rattlesnake or the Barg is the better ship I think our conversation would not be best suited for this thread. I just want to acknowledge that I've read your information, reflected on it, and while I still believe the RattleSnake is the superior choice, maybe I underestimated some of the values of the Barg. Cheers
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#23 - 2015-08-08 13:39:11 UTC
Mikkir wrote:
[quote=Arthur Aihaken]I've been flying a Golem, and what you're saying doesn't make sense to me. According to what I calculate, the golem has better damage and application when dealing with T2 fury missiles vs Faction missiles.

I've flown a Golem quite extensively as well, and to get the most out of it you need to run rigors and 2-3 target painters to apply full damage with Fury ammunition. So it does require a bit more micromanagement in terms of applying TPs and counting volleys (since even just a few lost volleys can really eat into your DPS).

The Barghest is a lot more forgiving as it starts with ~10% more DPS. This means you can run Faction missiles, which have a lot better damage application over Furies - and you can get passive damage application with a few missile guidance enhancers. The higher missile velocity means you don't need to count volleys (and rarely lose them).

For "running and gunning", the Golem is the clear choice with its salvage capabilities however.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#24 - 2015-08-08 16:39:16 UTC
Pax Deltari wrote:
Arthur Aihaken, While I'd like to continue debating whether the Rattlesnake or the Barg is the better ship I think our conversation would not be best suited for this thread. I just want to acknowledge that I've read your information, reflected on it, and while I still believe the RattleSnake is the superior choice, maybe I underestimated some of the values of the Barg. Cheers

There is definitely nothing wrong with the Rattlesnake. It's got an incredible base tank and very attractive price. And even with so-so drone and missile skills it can easily break 1000 DPS, which for a lot of battleships takes full skills and implants. I miss the 50% missile velocity bonus they stripped from it - as it pretty much relegates it to cruise missiles or rapid heavy missile launchers now.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Dato Koppla
Spaghetti Militia
#25 - 2015-08-09 01:12:44 UTC
I highly suggest taking Arthurs advice if you want to not only do missions effectively, but lose hilariously expensive ships to suicide ganks (check his killboard for some great entertainment).
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#26 - 2015-08-09 02:08:29 UTC
Dato Koppla wrote:
I highly suggest taking Arthurs advice if you want to not only do missions effectively, but lose hilariously expensive ships to suicide ganks (check his killboard for some great entertainment).

Shocked
oh my ****ing god!

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Tarojan
Tarojan Corporation
#27 - 2015-08-10 20:52:10 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Dato Koppla wrote:
I highly suggest taking Arthurs advice if you want to not only do missions effectively, but lose hilariously expensive ships to suicide ganks (check his killboard for some great entertainment).

Shocked
oh my ****ing god!



I know rite? that 9b officer fit golem...
I was wondering why he keeps losing his pod as well, until I saw that fit. I guess hes getting zapped missioning afk.

I don't understand one of his rattlesnake fits though:
it was lost in Taisy (0.3) / Lonetrek.

5 Cruise Missile Launcher II
Drone Link Augmentor II

3 Gistum A-Type Thermic Dissipation Amplifier
3 Gistum A-Type Kinetic Deflection Amplifier
1 Thukker Large Shield Extender

6 Thukker Power Diagnostic System
3 Large Core Defense Field Extender II

Now obviously thats a passive tank fit, probably using it for level 5s or 7/10s or something. Which explains the need for the passive hardeners to give epic resists. What I don't understand is the pds's why not shield power relays to free up a module for a damage mod? Can anyone enlighten me?

Will gank for food
Valleria Darkmoon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#28 - 2015-08-14 07:43:57 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Mikkir wrote:
[quote=Arthur Aihaken]I've been flying a Golem, and what you're saying doesn't make sense to me. According to what I calculate, the golem has better damage and application when dealing with T2 fury missiles vs Faction missiles.

I've flown a Golem quite extensively as well, and to get the most out of it you need to run rigors and 2-3 target painters to apply full damage with Fury ammunition. So it does require a bit more micromanagement in terms of applying TPs and counting volleys (since even just a few lost volleys can really eat into your DPS).

The Barghest is a lot more forgiving as it starts with ~10% more DPS. This means you can run Faction missiles, which have a lot better damage application over Furies - and you can get passive damage application with a few missile guidance enhancers. The higher missile velocity means you don't need to count volleys (and rarely lose them).

For "running and gunning", the Golem is the clear choice with its salvage capabilities however.

Why do people always want to run away from using any cap at all or activating any modules other than guns when missioning?

When you are using a Golem in level 5s I can understand that since you will get neuted out completely but for level 4s, not usually an issue.

Also the Golem's ability to loot and salvage without sacrificing mission efficiency is quite good. I blitz all level 4s whenever possible and I don't stick around for anything unless there is possibilities for expensive loot but there is literally no reason to leave the items on field when it won't delay your mission time by even a single second.

Reality has an almost infinite capacity to resist oversimplification.
Eli Apol
Definitely a nullsec alt
#29 - 2015-08-15 14:23:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Eli Apol
Wow that's a painful looking KB.

Advice for Arthur: biomass and buy a new toon from char bazaar instead of fitting a shiny ship with your next bunch of plex, it's very likely your current toon is watch listed by 99% of shiny mod hunters now... also... armour tengu (e: and not a jamgu)... wtf man.

Once you got a new toon, join a corp like Eve uni or something and learn the basics before getting experimental/shiny with your fits.

but what would I know, I'm just a salvager
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#30 - 2015-08-15 14:28:28 UTC
Eli Apol wrote:
Wow that's a painful looking KB.

Advice for Arthur: biomass and buy a new toon from char bazaar instead of fitting a shiny ship with your next bunch of plex, it's very likely your current toon is watch listed by 99% of shiny mod hunters now... also... armour tengu... wtf man.

Once you got a new toon, join a corp like Eve uni or something and learn the basics before getting experimental/shiny with your fits.

Showed the killboard to the alliance execs without saying anything,just linked it in chat,
wardec notification appeared within seconds.

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
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