EVE General Discussion

None of what you state exists. Therefore there is nothing that is being denied. These may be things that you wish existed but to say that you can access those things by paying additional money is blatantly false. It wouldn't matter how much money I threw at CCP there is no way I can do any of what you state whilst others cannot.


Remember that we are also talking about vanity items. Things that have no impact on the game at all. How does my avatar wearing an eye implant have any impact on the game? Hell, my avatar itself has no impact on the game. It matters not a jot whether I have blonde hair, whether I have blue eyes, whether I am shorter than average, whether I am more muscular than average or more fat than average, whether I am wearing trousers or a skirt, whether I have a tattoo or a scar, whether I wear earrings or have a nose stud. It doesn't even matter what race or bloodline I am, whether I am male or female.

So why on earth would it matter if I have a non-standard item of clothing on my avatar or not?


IF CCP were to introduce something that did have an impact on the game through the NEX store then that is a completely different issue and, truth be told, you wouldn't even see me bitching about it on the forums because I'd have already walked away.

Pre NeX we were told by CCP that Incarna would have establishments where players set up shops and sold clothing and fashions to other players. The fact these promises were broken so dramatically by NeXCarna fiasco is not something that should be forgotten. Failing to add promised player interaction is a BAD THING.



The price is fixed, there is no way a player can get a better input price, they simply need to sell low (and lower) to hope somebody buys it. Sure you can argue that buying NeX goods from the market is "interaction" but you know the point that is being made - it is not traditional industry in Eve online and it irritates because we were promised that Incarna would be about station-side industry and player interaction at all levels of the new content.



The fact the NeX store exists and people are talking about future content being delivered in this medium makes the point clearly true. Because NeX exists there is a danger that ship skins, corp logos, additional customization will be delivered as a MT via NeX and thus rob the game from future player interaction at each turn. This is the danger of NeX and its why people are very ill-advised to play quisling to this creeping corruption of the eve-online sandbox.



In an ideal world yes - everything should be produceable through player industry - everything. Some things like skillbooks etc should have npc volume production as a safeguard but I'd like to see bpos even for the skillbooks so players could potentially compete with the npcs on the items.

Of course this point (on which we appear to agree) is completely the opposite direction to NeX so I hope you'll join me in calling for its removal :)

Just to set myself up nicely for you....

Engine trails as NEX items on a per ship basis: Wouldn't overly bother me one way or the other. Although it is now a non-issue. There was a sig that someone had on the old forums which was a satirical look at the NEX store featuring a rifter hull (or derivative, I remember not) that had engine trails, skin etc with AUR prices. The only thing that I would have strongly objected to in it was the ammo.


I'll happily admit that the high price of the "vanity" items (i'll use quotes to acknowledge that for some they aren't quite as vanity related as for others) isn't exactly helpful for those of a more RP bent. When I started playing Eve almost 4 years ago (noob I know) I actually approached the character generation from an RPG point of view and I think it's a shame that the RP thing is not something that I've actively pursued since then.

The biggest thing that CCP could do to increase my RPness would be to get incarna fully launched. I have a collection of clothing on all characters from the NEX store ready to roll with that intent. Lauren has her business outfits, general casual outfits and combat/military orientated ones already lined up and i've screenies. Hell there was even an idea kicked around on the MD board about a business venture orientated around providing companions dressed in suitable attire for accompanying you to various meetings. I'd use that.

I've even tried to keep a theme running with the characters that I have and dress them to that theme and in a way that you should believe that they do actually check a mirror before leaving the house. Please, do a full body preview on me. Also check Wilhelmina Harker and Sytoru Hiroshyma (hopefully he's stopped showing with a jacket on). My CEO and pure combat characters respectively. All are themed and all acutally utilise the NEX items in achieving that theme.

The bit I strongly object to in all this is that the NEX store/Aurum should be stripped entirely from the game. There is so much that it could be and I don't want to see it all chucked away.


Then again from an RP angle, as I said before in passing, I have a bit of an issue with multi-billion isk genetic creations being deployed as tailors. Could the NEX store be improved? Certainly. Rather than bashing our heads on each other what improvements do I think that they could make?

For a start I will say that I believe that there is room for the current NEX only clothing options. Could other methods of getting clothing options be introduced? Certainly and I think your comment about moving the military uniforms to relevant LP stores is a good one. As a side issue I'd like awarded medals to show up in the character customisation as well both player corp. issued ones and those that would go with the rank achieved in FW.

It's kinda similar to the "tiers" that CCP envisaged with the NEX store. Top tier is the designer stuff that is only available directly from the NEX store, the entry tier could easily be player created items from a more usual manufacturing approach possibly involving PI to an extent rather than from the ship/module building angle.

For me anything like this that is player created needs to be real low entry point stuff. It should be a minor sideline rather than a main theme because of my whole issue with tailors in space.

And then all the steps will be completed and EVE-online will have a fully functional Item Mall (now it is 90%), just like any other F2P game out there.

You are telling me that NEX has no effect? Here (http://eve-offline.net/?server=tranquility - forum bugs) is the effect. Some CCP employes have felt that too.

Any type of Item Mall is a poison to a sandbox. Already EVE is considered a game with micro-transactions and/or F2P. It does not mater what YOU think, but what other see. Item Mall was created to bring money to CCP, it does not do that currently but in the future it will be fixed.

NEX store should be removed completely. I agree with Jade Constantine.

EVE is no test dummy for any other game? or is it? I should not be!

"Can of Worms," "Pandoras Box" debate; nothing good can come of this.

Tippia and others like him will never change their minds, and neither will the other side in all this. Talking about what could and couldn't be in NeX is a bad idea; it propagates the possibility that MT for in-game advantage is still a possibility.

edit: I will point out that clothing is inconsequential to EVE gameplay and would generally be a waste of manufacturing assets and server resources. It's also not something that is particularly in need of a BPO to manufacture and is without supporting material requirements in game.

PI might be a way to introduce such materials, but again; these are more iterationss to gameplay utilizing more server resources and development time for an item that is essentially cosmetic. Much like many people feel about CQ.

NeX is really just an alternative to PLEX which adds RP elements to the aquisition of in-game wealth through a similar means, but allows you to actively turn that aquisition into a process which allows you to trade a limited product or service with other players, rather than a simple extension of game time by the same means.

Ideally, this model will prove to be more fruitful and worthwhile once Incarna/WiS is fully introduced. It is in this fashion also cyclicle in nature, contrary to Tippias statement, and could potentially become a source of additional profit for CCP.

The fact that these items are indestructible does not preclude the fact that people may/will want more of them and different varieties. The very nature of cosmetic items guarantees this.

Being destructible would help increase turnover, but such as they are, that may create more demand than the population is able/willing to supply.

I would like to call the above statement a bit ignorant, to have this debate is a great way to understand the fustration behind the NeX, both Jade and Tippia have excellente convayance of the disdain for the store. Its the idiots that just say "Burn the Store Down" that have little good and are not contributing at all.

Well after reading the replies from both Tippia and Jade I think they are on two different sides of the same coin. Though I would love to see sensible the reasoning behind the anti-barbie brigade which wants to uninstall the entire expansion.

Jade, is bringing up an angle of players being cheated overall and I dont think arguging with here on any level of the store's interation would satisfy as she would rather see the entirety of the NeX merged into the game by ingame only means which I ultimately think is a bad way to justiry the development costs, recovery of time spent will take MUCH longer.

At least CCP didn't decide to start segregating subscriptions like some other games have awfully done in the past which was to go with like Free, Subscription and Subscriptoin plus. This is a very valid concern none the less but thats Jades point.

Tippia however wants player involvement with the store it may be possible to rework the store into her favor at least into a hybrid system where MT and ingame means would be possible to get the same item and wants more than just one way of getting said item outside of market and buy which would elevate most of the nex items into a catagory beyond the plex.

Bottom Line Tippia seems to account the NeX as a missed oppertunity for ccp to increase income while increasing game play value for as it stands now NeX doesnt add gameplay value that much as the income it generates.

To be fair, once things are seeded it doesn't take many minutes for players to start spending their saved up LP if they can get a decent convertion ratio.

The casual clothing items can simply be BPCs in loot drops, no need to have them in any stores.

I don't see a need for the NeX at all if the above is done right™.

This. A billion times over.

Then one would supersede the other and make it pointless. The NeX would either cap what player could do, making their input largely irrelevant, or players would make the NeX completely redundant.

Only one is needed because it will serve all purposes, and of the two, the NeX is the only one to not create any kind of gameplay. In your parallel to the LP stores, if you don't want to grind and want the instant satisfaction, you buy it off the market; if you can bear the grind, you do it yourself (or sell on the market to the impatient). Making one outlet compete against the other serves no purpose other than to ruin the player-generated side of the market.

Oh, and…No. I see the NeX as an abomination that couldn't even have been aborted and used for stem cell research, because no-one with any sense would want to touch the stuff with a 10' pole. It serves no purpose for the game — it is merely a book-keeping trick for the CCP accountants, and we have to pay for that through the loss of gameplay. It is not, nor will it ever be, needed for anything in EVE. Everything it does (which is very very little, since it never left early-alpha stage) can be done better through existing means. Investing more development time into it would be retarded since that development time is better invested in delivering the exact same thing through actual gameplay. Improving the NeX so it can do more is equally wasted — the same effort can be put into the existing store mechanics and make them work even better.

It is a missed opportunity in much the same way as blowing your foot off with a shotgun is a missed opportunity for eating ice cream: it is completely unrelated; it only cripples you and does nothing to further the actual goal. I suppose you might be referring to the comments I made about how it fails to work as an MT shop, but that's not because I would like to have seen such a shop — it's just an explanation why making money was never a goal for the NeX (or, if it were, it only shows that CCP does not have the competence needed for such a venture, and should probably not try it unless they want another disaster on their hands).

The NeX was an experiment that failed in every conceivable way to fulfil any of its imaginable purposes. There is nothing there to salvage, and removing it can only ever have positive effects.

Then what about the sandbox concept? The concept which states that you build the world around you?

Yeah, i am one of the idiots (as you called us) who wants the store burned down. It has no place in a game like EVE. There is really nothing good about it.

Your "good example" it is actually a bad example. I can't have...so i will go to shop and buy it. BLING! You no see?? It gives you an unfair advantage! Let's say my goal is to have the coolest stuff, you bought that with money!